Big Sky Tournament headed to Reno

[HelenaHandBasket]

Also, not every decision can be about promoting the best teams or doing what is best for the fans...some have to be financial, some are what is best for the conference and some are what is best for the athletic departments

In a real conference, decisions positively impact all of those because they aren't mutually exclusive. What's best for the fans is best for the conference and best for its finances.

Look, I get the financial reasons to move the tournament. That doesn't make it the correct decision from a competitive or fan perspective. As I've said before, if your program can't afford the few grand it costs because you're unable to book airfare 14 days in advance, the question is really no longer about where the tournament is held, but rather should those teams be in a DI conference.

Actually, wouldn't a neutral site make it more competitive than playing on a team's home court?

 

[EverettGriz]

Also, not every decision can be about promoting the best teams or doing what is best for the fans...some have to be financial, some are what is best for the conference and some are what is best for the athletic departments

In a real conference, decisions positively impact all of those because they aren't mutually exclusive. What's best for the fans is best for the conference and best for its finances.

Look, I get the financial reasons to move the tournament. That doesn't make it the correct decision from a competitive or fan perspective. As I've said before, if your program can't afford the few grand it costs because you're unable to book airfare 14 days in advance, the question is really no longer about where the tournament is held, but rather should those teams be in a DI conference.

Actually, wouldn't a neutral site make it more competitive than playing on a team's home court?

Only for he lower seeded teams, which perfectly cements my argument that the regular season is meaningless. Thanks for the assist.

 

[PlayerRep]

That is the single dumbest logic I've seen. There is everything to play for in Feb/March. Would you rather be a #4 seed playing or a #1 seed? The Big Sky traditionally doesn't have a wide gap for error, usually comes down to the last weekend of play. Why would any coach coast the last few games of the season with so much on the line? If you're a conference like WCC, the Valley, Big Sky, etc you don't have room for coasting because you may only get one team in, you want the highest possible seed to better your chances. Only conferences like SEC, Big12, B1G maybe have this opportunity, but even then, did anyone see Kentucky taking games off this year?

T, that's the entire point. It makes no difference if you're a one or a 4. You still play each other on a neutral floor. The one seed has NO advantage over the four seed, and in a one-bid league, that's asinine.

You seem to think that only home court advantage provides competitive advantage. Being the better team, and a higher seed, is also a significant advantage. Getting a bye due to seeding can be an advantage. Playing much lower ranked, and lower quality, teams in the first round, can be significant for 3 games played on successive days. While not playing for the home court as the no. 1 seed takes away some of the incentive, there is still significant incentive to winning the conference and improving the team's seed. In addition, no coach wants to come into the tourney after coasting and not playing well in the last few games of the season. Man, you clearly never played the game.

 

[grizindabox]

Also, not every decision can be about promoting the best teams or doing what is best for the fans...some have to be financial, some are what is best for the conference and some are what is best for the athletic departments

In a real conference, decisions positively impact all of those because they aren't mutually exclusive. What's best for the fans is best for the conference and best for its finances.

Look, I get the financial reasons to move the tournament. That doesn't make it the correct decision from a competitive or fan perspective. As I've said before, if your program can't afford the few grand it costs because you're unable to book airfare 14 days in advance, the question is really no longer about where the tournament is held, but rather should those teams be in a DI conference.

Actually, wouldn't a neutral site make it more competitive than playing on a team's home court?

Only for he lower seeded teams, which perfectly cements my argument that the regular season is meaningless. Thanks for the assist.

What a dumbass. Your logic is that it will be more competitive for lower seeded teams only...how is that.

 

[EverettGriz]

Offs. It ain't rocket science. The Conf has removed the one and only benefit that the regular season winner had. Is this somehow not clear to you?? I just asked a 4 year old. It was crystal clear to her.

And I like how no one responded to the most important piece of this discussion: how exciting the conference title race was last year and how boring it will be in the future. Of course, I have a decent idea why that is.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

Everett is right. There is no reason to win games, the University might as well just drop basketball and save some cash.

 

[PlayerRep]

Offs. It ain't rocket science. The Conf has removed the one and only benefit that the regular season winner had. Is this somehow not clear to you?? I just asked a 4 year old. It was crystal clear to her.

And I like how no one responded to the most important piece of this discussion: how exciting the conference title race was last year and how boring it will be in the future. Of course, I have a decent idea why that is.

It doesn't surprise me that you got your advice from a 4 year old on this point. My god, stop with being so stupid. Yes, home court advantage has been a big advantage for winning the conference, but getting a higher seed is also a significant incentive and advantage.

 

[EverettGriz]

Oh, there's plenty of reason to win games. Unfortunately, theres only 3 of them, and they'll be played in Reno.

 

[get'em_griz]

I think probably one of the things that people don't agree with the new format is that teams who don't belong in the tournament due to a terrible season are going to be rewarded and welcomed to the tournament.

 

[grizindabox]

Oh, there's plenty of reason to win games. Unfortunately, theres only 3 of them, and they'll be played in Reno.

what a whiny biatch...seriously

 

[grizindabox]

I think probably one of the things that people don't agree with the new format is that teams who don't belong in the tournament due to a terrible season are going to be rewarded and welcomed to the tournament.

My take, if you are a member of the CONFERENCE you have every right to be part of the CONFERENCE tournament.

 

[grizindabox]

I would also like to add that even though the NIT is an afterthought, the regular season champ is assured post season play.

 

[statler & waldorf]

From' Tombstone':
"Doc Holliday: Maybe poker's just not your game, Ike. I know! Let's have a spelling contest!"

Couldn't resist the analogy to a few in this' debate.' Can't create a reasoned argument, or rebuttal, so use personal attacks. Your average sixth grader shows more maturity. Carry on.

 

[mtgrizrule]

From' Tombstone':
"Doc Holliday: Maybe poker's just not your game, Ike. I know! Let's have a spelling contest!"

Couldn't resist the analogy to a few in this' debate.' Can't create a reasoned argument, or rebuttal, so use personal attacks. Your average sixth grader shows more maturity. Carry on.

Yet you added no more and attacked too. :lol: :thumb:

 

[MrTitleist]

I think probably one of the things that people don't agree with the new format is that teams who don't belong in the tournament due to a terrible season are going to be rewarded and welcomed to the tournament.

The Mountain West would have had San Jose State in their tournament this year had the Spartans not been ineligible for the tournament.. I think they won 2 games this season. I see them put Air Force in every single year as well. The weak weed themselves out, the real teams are still playing on Friday and Saturday.

 

[NorthEndZoneDan]

I'm not certain I buy the financial argument. This scenario now means each school has travel costs, food and lodging for the mens and womens team for roughly 4 or 5 days? I can see the hotels and restaurants in Reno saying this makes financial sense but what am I missing from the school's perspective? How does this possibly save them money? From the revenue stream side, there will be probably a couple hundred tickets sold? There is no word of a tv deal. If the bobkitties wouldnt make the tourney under the old format and now they have to pony up travel bucks for the new tourney format how is this a cost savings? What am I missing?

 

[ISUguy]

I'm not certain I buy the financial argument. This scenario now means each school has travel costs, food and lodging for the mens and womens team for roughly 4 or 5 days? I can see the hotels and restaurants in Reno saying this makes financial sense but what am I missing from the school's perspective? How does this possibly save them money? From the revenue stream side, there will be probably a couple hundred tickets sold? There is no word of a tv deal. If the bobkitties wouldnt make the tourney under the old format and now they have to pony up travel bucks for the new tourney format how is this a cost savings? What am I missing?

First of all, we haven't heard what the format will be for the tournament. If the conference wants to save money and lost class time, it could hold the women's tournament the first three days followed by the men's tournament the next three. That way, no school has to be in Reno longer than 3 or 4 days.

Secondly, the conference tournament has usually been a money loser. That's why the league instituted the requirement several years ago that the regular season champion had to pony up $160 K in order to host. That money was redistributed to the teams attending the tournament to cut down on travel expenses. By going to a a pre-determined, neutral site and making every team eligible for the tournament, every school can now start searching for the best airfares a year in advance, instead of trying to book last-minute tickets to places like Fargo or Missoula. The cost difference of a last-minute plane ticket to a remote market vs. an advance ticket to Reno, multiplied by 40 to cover all the coaches, trainers and players for both men's and womens' teams, is quite significant.

I would also assume Reno made the league a very good deal on hotel rooms and meals, which also cuts costs.

Finally, the decision to go to a neutral, pre-determined site wasn't just about money. It was also about travel "fairness," if you will. Idaho State's women's team wound up busing 18 hours to the women's tournament in Grand Forks last year, because 1) the cost of flying was prohibitive; 2) they couldn't get tickets for the entire travel party on one flight; and 3) By the time they bused to Salt Lake City, flew to Minneapolis and bused to Grand Forks, well, they might as well just get on the bus from Pocatello and head straight to North Dakota.

Let me say, I personally enjoyed the current tournament format with the regular season champion hosting. I've been able to watch ISU host the women's tournament three times in the last 15 years, and that's been great. I doubt I'll ever make it to Reno to see a men or women's tournament, and not having the opportunity to see either tournament in Pocatello makes me sad.

But from the coaches and AD's perspective, I fully understand why they want a pre-determined, neutral site with every team in the tournament. I understand why fans don't like it, but there will always be a tension between the competing values of fans wanting the opportunity to host the tournament and having that excitement of an on-campus venue; and the coaches and ADs wanting travel certainty and fairness. It's why the league has changed its format so many times over the past 25 years -- because there is no perfect fix to that tension. And I fully expect more changes in the future.

 

[NorthEndZoneDan]

Thanks bengalvisitor for the info. Last night on the teevee the news reader said they were looking at spreading games out over a 6 day period to accommodate all the games. Is Reno now picking up the guarantee? Even with the 160 k guarantee, the cost of travel, lodging and food for coaches, trainers, players, the ad office people for all teams in the conference is a big pile of money. Instead of 5 teams going to Pocatello you now have 12 traveling to Reno. There has to be a tv deal to make this pencil out, or at least there should be and I haven't heard a word about that.

 

[SWeberCat02]

This makes the 20 conference games meaningless. Since the BSC is so weak, playing 20 in conference really undermines strength of schedule. Why not reduce the number of conf games to 15 and let the teams try to get 5 more good non-conference opponents. This would up the sos and give the conf champ a chance to compete for a better seed. Just a thought.

The conference plays an 18 game schedule. Chance of getting more good non-conference games is slim to none. All conference teams, Weber and UM included, struggle mightily to get D1 teams to travel to their places. Programs see little to no benefit to traveling long distances to play teams in a poor conference. If anything, the conference would benefit from more conference games instead of playing all the lower division games.

 

[ISUguy]

Thanks bengalvisitor for the info. Last night on the teevee the news reader said they were looking at spreading games out over a 6 day period to accommodate all the games. Is Reno now picking up the guarantee? Even with the 160 k guarantee, the cost of travel, lodging and food for coaches, trainers, players, the ad office people for all teams in the conference is a big pile of money. Instead of 5 teams going to Pocatello you now have 12 traveling to Reno. There has to be a tv deal to make this pencil out, or at least there should be and I haven't heard a word about that.

I'm assuming ESPN will continue to broadcast the men's championship game, as they have in the past, and I wouldn't expect a pile of cash to result. Typically, the Big Sky is just happy to get their game on the air somewhere.

The league has said the tournaments will run over 6 days, but they haven't announced the formats yet. If they want to save costs and class time lost, they can run the women's tournaments the first three days and the men's the last (or vice versa), so the teams that make the championships don't have to stay 6 days. But there is no guarantee they will do that. We shall see.

I also agree with SWeberCat: the conference should play a full home-and-home schedule. There is very little incentive for other D-1 teams to play non-conference games at Big Sky schools. I'd rather see more conference games and less NAIA and D-2 non-conference home games, which is what you're getting now.