A question about the jury pool

[grizindabox]

There was a real gem of a post on here earlier about how "GRIZ NATION" should make the accuser feel just as uncomfortable as Jordy and that "GRIZ NATION" should make her feel miserable. That's the kind of Griz-paw stuff that goes way over the boundaries of decency. No one football player is worth embarrassing an entire fan base.

Another hated poster on this board took affirmative steps to investigate who the accuser was. As an individual educated in the law, this person snooped around campus departments trying to identify the accuser, all under the guise of justice. This person proudly calls himself an advocate for student-athletes, but many of those same student-athletes are scared and creeped out by this person. This person damages the reputation of UM far more than even Grizpaw is capable of.

Cap'n Greytooth

 

[GrizPony]

If this is any indication of the jury pool, I can honestly say they might have to go to Djbouti to find an impartial jury pool.

I don't know where that is located. Is that new movie character Django from there?

 

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Hmmmm.............true, we havent heard from Capn Jack in awhile..................wonder where he went?

 

[Jerry Punch]

I didn't want to directly identify this individual for fear that this person would initiate a law suit against me. You guys making these connections might be the target of litigation from this mystery "man."

 

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

I didn't want to directly identify this individual for fear that this person would initiate a law suit against me. You guys making these connections might be the target of litigation from this mystery "man."

His team of crack cyber lawdogs just pulled a sled up in my front yard......................

 

[Blgs Griz Fan]

I'll sure be glad when this is all over regardless of the outcome. this has certainly hit Griz Nation like a ton of bricks. Oops didn't something like that come up before?

 

[ilovethecats]

yikes. you guys are still going back and forth on this? :shock:

 

[AllWeatherFan]

Like I said, though (and I cannot emphasize this strongly enough) -- we don't know the facts, and I don't want to speculate too much. Whatever this is, it's clear that the parties are keeping it very quiet, and I don't want anything that's said here to become the stuff of rumors.

I agree. So I will not post anything further on this subject, and hope that others follow suit.

 

[JBS]

i have dealt directly with tnt's work place it's something i do not wish on anybody! the truth is hard enough but to want you to lie to make it worst than it is was over the top in my view and my family! so yes i KNOW how she works her job and the people she tryies to convict!



i don't know u copper griz and don't care too so what u think of me does not matter and if you are unwilling to except the truth so what! THE TRUTH IS THE TRUTH DON'T HIDE BEHIND SOME BULLS$%# AND PREVENT IT FROM COMING OUT!

ooo, snap! looks like it might be on like donkey kong for grizzpaw. just one problem. i doubt very many people can tell w.t.f. you're saying, so take a deep breath and try that again. take your time. don't rush. it's not a race.

Yeah, it would be nice to know what he's talking about. Might need the rosetta stone.

 

[Potomac Griz]

yikes. you guys are still going back and forth on this? :shock:

This is what happens when we have no playoffs...we all have time to become legal experts, psychologists, and investigators

 

[UMGriz75]

Wow. You accuse the judge of already making up her mind yet you pretend to know the answers too?

The Judge unfortunately committed an error, and that was at page 11 of her Order denying the Motion to Dismiss, dated September 5, 2012, in which she changed her typical reference regarding "Jane Doe" from "Jane Doe" to "the victim" and then began to repeat that reference.

The "victim?"

Perhaps a Freudian slip, but the Judge has been around long enough to know what the jury is supposed to do and what the judge is supposed to do.

The term "victim" is used in the Montana Criminal Code to describe the person who was sexually assaulted. MCA 46-18-243(2)(a) “Victim” means: (i) a person who suffers loss of property, bodily injury, or death as a result of: (A) the commission of an offense...".

Normally, the designation of a "victim" comes as part of the sentence and the judgment, after a finding by the jury that a crime was actually committed.

Judge Townsend signaled her views on this.

 

[go96griz]

I don't like to get too much into this non football stuff, but my interpretation is that the accuser has been facing some type of threats. Does anyone else read it that way?

Could be, or it could be that someone close to the victim has threatened JJ in some way. The only reason I suggest that is that the judge was asking the defense about it, which may suggest that they're the ones driving the investigation.

Like I said, though (and I cannot emphasize this strongly enough) -- we don't know the facts, and I don't want to speculate too much. Whatever this is, it's clear that the parties are keeping it very quiet, and I don't want anything that's said here to become the stuff of rumors.

Solid point....I guess I focused more on "threat" and "victim" and my mind wandered down the path of someone threatening the victim, and hadn't considered the alternative.

You're right though....I should probably stop speculating, as it doesn't do anyone any good.

I recently heard that the FBI talked to a law student in Chicago that was formerly a UM student. This person was supposedly sending emails to the "victim" through a fake email account. Not sure if this is what the article was referring to.

 

[Ursa Major]

yikes. you guys are still going back and forth on this? :shock:

This is what happens when we have no playoffs...we all have time to become legal experts, psychologists, and investigators

...and apparently some simply become idiots.

 

[br fan]

What's the next most tragic event? What Dave Paoli continues to do to the accuser. He's representing his client with all the zeal and maniacal dedication that has stained the legal profession. Requests for medical records dating back to when the accuser was 5 years old? Do those ear infections make it any more or less likely that she fabricated a story? You tell me. 29,000 unrelated text messages? Does her vote on American Idol via text message make her any more or less likely to be a slut? You tell me. Better yet, tell it to Paoli, who dissrespects the Court and the legal process by refusing to obey the orders of a judge.

Believe it or not, Jordy actually deserves better. His attorney is building up nothing more than negativity with the judge. There's a good factual debate to be had in this trial, and Paoli is making it only about himself and everything ancillary to the process.

The prosecution raised the issue of the accuser's mental state. As part of their case the prosecution is claiming the accuser has suffered from something akin to "post traumatic syndrome" since the incident to imply she's telling the truth about what happened. It would be malpractice for Paoli to advise JJ to stipulate to that. Paoli asked for the accuser's medical records from age 5 to see whether she has been previously treated.

 

[Potomac Griz]

yikes. you guys are still going back and forth on this? :shock:

This is what happens when we have no playoffs...we all have time to become legal experts, psychologists, and investigators

...and apparently some simply become idiots.

:lol: Well... they might already suffer from that, the lack of playoffs just seems makes many of them more vocal.

 

[zengriz]

...the worst thing about going to trial...
...an your life iz in the handz of 13 people...
...not smart enough to get out of jury duty...

... ...

 

[Grisly Fan]

The prosecution raised the issue of the accuser's mental state. As part of their case the prosecution is claiming the accuser has suffered from something akin to "post traumatic syndrome" since the incident to imply she's telling the truth about what happened. It would be malpractice for Paoli to advise JJ to stipulate to that. Paoli asked for the accuser's medical records from age 5 to see whether she has been previously treated.

Since Post Traumatic Stress is by definition caused by a traumatic experience then ANY traumatic experience could cause it -- including a lie that would ruin another person's life, especially if the person telling the lie is being coerced into proceding when he/she would rather not. That could be EXTREMELY traumatizing.

I am not saying that this is what is happening but it is absolutely impossible to prove what event or chain of events has caused PTSD in a particular individual (ignoring the fact that proving a person is suffering from PTSD is far from easy) and wanting to rely on it to prove a particular event caused it is weak at the very best. The defense's job in part is to ensure the that burden is on the prosecution to prove that only the alleged rape (and nothing else) could have caused it. If the defense offers other reasonable explanations -- or can prove prior stress treatment through medical records -- then poof goes that attack. This had better not be a cornerstone of the prosecutions case.

 

[Ursa Major]

The prosecution raised the issue of the accuser's mental state. As part of their case the prosecution is claiming the accuser has suffered from something akin to "post traumatic syndrome" since the incident to imply she's telling the truth about what happened. It would be malpractice for Paoli to advise JJ to stipulate to that. Paoli asked for the accuser's medical records from age 5 to see whether she has been previously treated.

Since Post Traumatic Stress is by definition caused by a traumatic experience then ANY traumatic experience could cause it -- including a lie that would ruin another person's life, especially if the person telling the lie is being coerced into proceding when he/she would rather not. That could be EXTREMELY traumatizing.

I am not saying that this is what is happening but it is absolutely impossible to prove what event or chain of events has caused PTSD in a particular individual (ignoring the fact that proving a person is suffering from PTSD is far from easy) and wanting to rely on it to prove a particular event caused it is weak at the very best. The defense's job in part is to ensure the that burden is on the prosecution to prove that only the alleged rape (and nothing else) could have caused it. If the defense offers other reasonable explanations -- or can prove prior stress treatment through medical records -- then poof goes that attack. This had better not be a cornerstone of the prosecutions case.

That is patently false.

309.81 Posttraumatic Stress Disorder

Diagnostic Features

The essential feature of Posttraumatic Stress Disorder is the development of characteristic symptoms following exposure to an extreme traumatic stressor involving direct personal experience of an event that involves actual or threatened death or serious injury, or other threat to one's physical integrity; or witnessing an event that involves death, injury, or a threat to the physical integrity of another person; or learning about unexpected or violent death, serious harm, or threat of death or injury experienced by a family member or other close associate (Criterion A1).

 

[Ursa Major]

yikes. you guys are still going back and forth on this? :shock:

This is what happens when we have no playoffs...we all have time to become legal experts, psychologists, and investigators

...and apparently some simply become idiots.

:lol: Well... they might already suffer from that, the lack of playoffs just seems makes many of them more vocal.

Good point! It would seem that some have an inherent head start in that category.

 

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

The prosecution raised the issue of the accuser's mental state. As part of their case the prosecution is claiming the accuser has suffered from something akin to "post traumatic syndrome" since the incident to imply she's telling the truth about what happened. It would be malpractice for Paoli to advise JJ to stipulate to that. Paoli asked for the accuser's medical records from age 5 to see whether she has been previously treated.

Since Post Traumatic Stress is by definition caused by a traumatic experience then ANY traumatic experience could cause it -- including a lie that would ruin another person's life, especially if the person telling the lie is being coerced into proceding when he/she would rather not. That could be EXTREMELY traumatizing.

I am not saying that this is what is happening but it is absolutely impossible to prove what event or chain of events has caused PTSD in a particular individual (ignoring the fact that proving a person is suffering from PTSD is far from easy) and wanting to rely on it to prove a particular event caused it is weak at the very best. The defense's job in part is to ensure the that burden is on the prosecution to prove that only the alleged rape (and nothing else) could have caused it. If the defense offers other reasonable explanations -- or can prove prior stress treatment through medical records -- then poof goes that attack. This had better not be a cornerstone of the prosecutions case.

That is patently false.

309.81 Posttraumatic Stress Disorder

Diagnostic Features

The essential feature of Posttraumatic Stress Disorder is the development of characteristic symptoms following exposure to an extreme traumatic stressor involving direct personal experience of an event that involves actual or threatened death or serious injury, or other threat to one's physical integrity; or witnessing an event that involves death, injury, or a threat to the physical integrity of another person; or learning about unexpected or violent death, serious harm, or threat of death or injury experienced by a family member or other close associate (Criterion A1).

Back off buddy............your definition is no different than any of the others considering that all of this crap is made up psychobabble to keep weak minded people feeling like they are not the pussies they really are in the real world.

These "excuses" are just "doctors" making up a mental participation trophy..........nothing more.