A move up would be the End of eGriz

[grizindabox]

PGM, I still believe that the Pac12, Big10, Big12 etc will quit scheduling FCS games and instead play more Sunbelt and MAC schools. This will essentially direct all the financial trickle down to those schools and put FCS in a bad spot with many schools unable to keep football afloat. Heck, Big 10 is going to put a stop to FCS games very soon and the other will follow.

No argument about their intent, until there is some unusual situation where a Big school has a scheduling issue and needs to fill a 100,000 seat stadium on a saturday.

But many FCS schools are now scheduling 2 or even 3 FBS money games to keep the program afloat, and those days will be disappearing. Not sure how many programs can maintain FCS football with a FBS every 2 or 3 seasons.

 

[MrTitleist]

Q: What FBS conference will take UM and why. (Pictures are welcomed.)

Seems like the Sun Belt might expand West.. hard telling what the MW is going to do.. I hate to think they're going to stand around. I would think the Sun Belt would form two divisions, East and West, and it wouldn't surprise me to see Montana/MSU involved in that discussion. Conference USA is a mess right now, hard telling what their plan is.

I did not hear about the Sun Belt expanding west. If they had two 8 team divisions that eliminated long travel times, that could work. What would West consist of for teams?

Probably the Texas schools already there.. Idaho, NMSU.. Maybe they'd look at an NDSU, UC-Davis type school.. who knows.

 

[MrTitleist]

Cherry-picking again here. Interesting that you mentioned sun belt. Here are the 2012 football results for U of North Texas:

Date Opponent Location Results
Sat, Sep 01 LSU at Baton Rouge, LA 14 - 41 (L)
Sat, Sep 08 Texas Southern Denton, TX 34 - 7 (W)
Sat, Sep 15 Kansas State at Manhattan, KS 21 - 35 (L)
Sat, Sep 22 Troy - Family Weekend * Denton, TX 7 - 14 (L)
Sat, Sep 29 Florida Atlantic * at Boca Raton, FL 20 - 14 (W)
Sat, Oct 06 Houston at Houston, TX 21 - 44 (L)
Tue, Oct 16 Louisiana-Lafayette * Denton, TX 30 - 23 (W)
Sat, Oct 27 Middle Tennessee * at Murfreesboro, TN 21 - 38 (L)
Sat, Nov 03 Arkansas State - Homecoming * Denton, TX 19 - 37 (L)
Sat, Nov 10 South Alabama - Preview * Denton, TX 24 - 14 (W)
Sat, Nov 17 ULM * at Monroe, LA 16 - 42 (L)
Sat, Nov 24 Western Kentucky * at Bowling Green, KY 24 - 25 (L)
Sun Belt Network * Conference Games

http://www2.indystar.com/NCAA_financial_reports/expense_stat/show?school_id=68" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

University of North Texas (unusual database & it could be from 2010 or 2011?)
UNT Athletic Dept. = Income $10.6mm versus Expenses $13.7mm and loss of $3.1mm.
UNT football only = Income $1.88mm vers Expenses $3.66mm and loss of $1.78mm.

I'd like to see more numbers (maybe they're there, I didn't click the link yet).. there aren't many ADs and FB teams that generate a lot of money (unless you're Texas, etc).. UNT isn't exactly a power house.. they do have a brand new stadium though.. pretty nice from what I saw pics of.

 

[get'em_griz]

Cherry-picking again here. Interesting that you mentioned sun belt. Here are the 2012 football results for U of North Texas:

Date Opponent Location Results
Sat, Sep 01 LSU at Baton Rouge, LA 14 - 41 (L)
Sat, Sep 08 Texas Southern Denton, TX 34 - 7 (W)
Sat, Sep 15 Kansas State at Manhattan, KS 21 - 35 (L)
Sat, Sep 22 Troy - Family Weekend * Denton, TX 7 - 14 (L)
Sat, Sep 29 Florida Atlantic * at Boca Raton, FL 20 - 14 (W)
Sat, Oct 06 Houston at Houston, TX 21 - 44 (L)
Tue, Oct 16 Louisiana-Lafayette * Denton, TX 30 - 23 (W)
Sat, Oct 27 Middle Tennessee * at Murfreesboro, TN 21 - 38 (L)
Sat, Nov 03 Arkansas State - Homecoming * Denton, TX 19 - 37 (L)
Sat, Nov 10 South Alabama - Preview * Denton, TX 24 - 14 (W)
Sat, Nov 17 ULM * at Monroe, LA 16 - 42 (L)
Sat, Nov 24 Western Kentucky * at Bowling Green, KY 24 - 25 (L)
Sun Belt Network * Conference Games

http://www2.indystar.com/NCAA_financial_reports/expense_stat/show?school_id=68" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

University of North Texas (unusual database & it could be from 2010 or 2011?)
UNT Athletic Dept. = Income $10.6mm versus Expenses $13.7mm and loss of $3.1mm.
UNT football only = Income $1.88mm vers Expenses $3.66mm and loss of $1.78mm.

I'd like to see more numbers (maybe they're there, I didn't click the link yet).. there aren't many ADs and FB teams that generate a lot of money (unless you're Texas, etc).. UNT isn't exactly a power house.. they do have a brand new stadium though.. pretty nice from what I saw pics of.

UNT's new stadium is pretty nice and has a 30,850 capacity. They only were able to average 18,927 fans in 2012. But hey, that's way better than what the majority of the BSC can get!

 

[Ursa Major]

Q: What FBS conference will take UM and why. (Pictures are welcomed.)

Seems like the Sun Belt might expand West.. hard telling what the MW is going to do.. I hate to think they're going to stand around. I would think the Sun Belt would form two divisions, East and West, and it wouldn't surprise me to see Montana/MSU involved in that discussion. Conference USA is a mess right now, hard telling what their plan is.

I did not hear about the Sun Belt expanding west. If they had two 8 team divisions that eliminated long travel times, that could work. What would West consist of for teams?

Probably the Texas schools already there.. Idaho, NMSU.. Maybe they'd look at an NDSU, UC-Davis type school.. who knows.

I think at this point the Sun Belt sounds like it suffers from Fullerton's Syndrome (FS). The desire to acquire as many teams into their conference as is possible without regard to geography, scholastics, or rational thinking. The hallmark of the disease is an overall confusion that quantity is better than quality.

 

[EverettGriz]

Fullerton's Syndrome (FS)

As I understand it, FS is most-acute when accompanied by "metro areas with large media presence and significant population , none of whom give a shit about the teams in question".

 

[MrTitleist]

I think at this point the Sun Belt sounds like it suffers from Fullerton's Syndrome (FS). The desire to acquire as many teams into their conference as is possible without regard to geography, scholastics, or rational thinking. The hallmark of the disease is an overall confusion that quantity is better than quality.

Have you not been paying attention to conference realignment? Since when does geography, rational thinking, and to a smaller extent, scholastics matter. The B1G now stretches from Lincoln, Nebraska to College Park, Maryland. The Big Sky stretches from San Luis Obispo, CA to Grand Forks, ND. Big 12 from Morgantown, WV to Lubbock, TX. Hell, Boise and San Diego State were willing to sell their Olympic sports down the river to join a conference where they would have been their closest away games. Next closest in Houston and Lexington, KY. In today's college athletics all that matters is $$$.. student athletes, travel, etc no longer matter.

 

['68griz]

Everett, I'm not commenting one way or another on your belief that UM should move up. I just want to know where they might move to....

Obviously, that's the $64,000 question. Right now their options are clearly limited. And FWIW, I thought the decision not to join the WAC was the correct one, given the way that league was collapsing.

I'm certainly not proposing that the opportunity is there right now for the Griz. I'm simply suggesting that to rule out the chance to move up if and when the opportunity does come simply because we're Montana and we're too small is ridiculous. I DO think an opportunity will arise soon, and UM better take a serious look at it. Because playing a conference game in front of 1,589 people in Ellensberg, with the winds wafting over from the slaughter houses is not the ideal model for Griz football.

That I can agree with.

 

[griz71]

Plus, if they are relevant to you or not, UM played them. And there is no plan to quit playing the SEC, Pac-12, and B1G ala "Show me the money". A move-up makes the liklihood of playing money games against BCS teams greater, to fund the additional $1-2-3 million additional athletic budget. JMHO.

If you've been reading the college football boards and articles over the last few months you'll see that play-up games against the Big 5 are going to becoming more and more scarce.. SOS is going to be important for playoff positioning once BCS 2.0 comes into play.. which means cupcakes will no longer fill the schedules of Big 5 teams. They'll be looking at the other 5 of FBS for games. So yes, while UM may not have a plan to stop playing those games, the Big 5 have a plan to stop.[/quote]

So...will the UW Huskies buy out our scheduled 2017 game? Or after all this perennial FBS realignment/move-up debate, will Montana (and perhaps MSU) be in some "second tier" FBS conference that I believe ultimately will occur. Questions are what conference will it be (maybe a newly-created one?), who will be the members, and will the UM academic and athletic administrations have the timely visionary courage and integrity to pull the trigger once a viable option (as I believe will happen at some point in the next 1-3 years) is available as Everett points out. Like it or not it is becoming increasingly painfully apparent that with the deaparture of the likes of our App State and Georgia Southern brothers and similar peer FCS powers to FBS, the writing is on the wall and the harsh reality is do we really want to be left behind relegated to having road tailgates in Ellensburg, Monmouth, or Enid--wherever NE Oklahoma Panhandle State is located?

 

[Spanky]

68....reading your posts, it sounds as if you are beginning to think there may be reasons why UM should consider moving to a real Division1 conference?

 

['68griz]

Oh, I still am not a big fan of leaving FCS, but I don't think UM can sit with its head in the sand and not notice what is going on around us. HOWEVER -- and it's a huge HOWEVER -- at this point, I see no place to which UM could "move up." I truly am not interested at all in the likes of the Sun Belt, where the travel costs would be horrendous and there are none of our traditional rivals (sorry, I know I'm ignoring Idaho, but I don't think they belong in the Sun Belt either). So, how's that for a nice wishy-washy stance!

 

[statler & waldorf]

Montana, and now, Montana State, are big fish in a little pond. Lets not read our own press. The Earth, Montana, is really NOT the center of the universe, no matter how much we wish it were.

 

[CV Griz Fan]

Montana, and now, Montana State, are big fish in a little pond. Lets not read our own press. The Earth, Montana, is really NOT the cent

I think at this point the Sun Belt sounds like it suffers from Fullerton's Syndrome (FS). The desire to acquire as many teams into their conference as is possible without regard to geography, scholastics, or rational thinking. The hallmark of the disease is an overall confusion that quantity is better than quality.

Have you not been paying attention to conference realignment? Since when does geography, rational thinking, and to a smaller extent, scholastics matter. The B1G now stretches from Lincoln, Nebraska to College Park, Maryland. The Big Sky stretches from San Luis Obispo, CA to Grand Forks, ND. Big 12 from Morgantown, WV to Lubbock, TX. Hell, Boise and San Diego State were willing to sell their Olympic sports down the river to join a conference where they would have been their closest away games. Next closest in Houston and Lexington, KY. In today's college athletics all that matters is $$$.. student athletes, travel, etc no longer matter.

er of the universe, no matter how much we wish it were.

Finally an Egriz poster that gets it! Wake up everybody!

 

[griz71]

Oh, I still am not a big fan of leaving FCS, but I don't think UM can sit with its head in the sand and not notice what is going on around us. HOWEVER -- and it's a huge HOWEVER -- at this point, I see no place to which UM could "move up." I truly am not interested at all in the likes of the Sun Belt, where the travel costs would be horrendous and there are none of our traditional rivals (sorry, I know I'm ignoring Idaho, but I don't think they belong in the Sun Belt either). So, how's that for a nice wishy-washy stance!

Not wishy-washy at all--just identifying accurately the unfortunately exisitng situation..... :thumb:

 

[NorthwestFresh]

Programs that have missed the FCS playoffs 2 out of the last 3 years are definitely not ready to move up to the FBS level.

The Griz aren't Appy State, or GA Southern, or even NDSU, unfortunately, at this point in time. Are even better recruits who can compete with FBS programs going to start magically going to UM during the 'ramp-up' just to get their heads kicked in as seniors by programs that actually have the funding necessary, and the corporate base, to be competitive.

Boise is a top program primarily because they have a lot of money in that city. Three Fortune 500 companies have or have had their HQs there in the last 15 years.

In Missoula, where is the corporate funding going to come from in terms of local support? Lucky Lil's?

 

[NorthwestFresh]

What's wrong with getting 27k fans into games that are winnable. Another thing about moving up is that the Griz would likely lose another home game, simply due to needing a paycheck game to cover travel costs and extra scholarships involved in moving up.

Who is going to fund an additional 22 scholarships, and keep in mind, at the FBS level in football, there are not partial scholarships? May as well kiss goodbye the idea of having Montana kids grow up wanting to be Griz, because most aren't good enough for FBS, and those who want to play for the Griz would either eat up a scholarship or pay their own way to not play football. :shock:

 

[EverettGriz]

The Griz aren't GA Southern, or even NDSU

I agree. The Griz are better positioned for a move to the FBS than either of those teams. Appy is probably a little ahead of UM because of their internal facilities. Montana is so far ahead of the Liberty's of the world that it's not even worthy of comparison.

UM and Appy -- by a wide, wide margin -- are the programs best equipped to move now. Not that that has really been a determining factor for future success at the FBS level, it should be noted. Idaho was better positioned for a move than was Boise, for example.

 

[Silvertip]

The window for Montana to elevate its athletic program was wide open for more than a decade. Now there's nary a crack open to any practical move. All of the suspects west of the Badlands have moved on - and up. Even if the Sunbelt looked toward a west division, who beyond MSU and Idaho is even available to fill out a six school division?... Decades of a strange indifference have left the Griz where they are. The best proof of that is this - of the 13 teams presently in the Big Sky Conference only one has ever moved down instead of up - and that's UM which slipped progressively from an over-matched Pacific Coast Conference in the 50's, to the Skyline Conference (made up of many of today's MWC members) before finally hitting the basement with the BSC...

And, oh yeah, and not forgetting "Montana State College"... a D-II Rocky Mountain Conference school that moved up as a charter member of the BSC... :thumb:

The boat has sailed...

 

[Spanky]

For sure....the boat has sailed and now UM is in a conference regarded by many as Division2 with little hope of an improved conference affiliation.

 

[rimrockgriz]

Programs that have missed the FCS playoffs 2 out of the last 3 years are definitely not ready to move up to the FBS level.

The Griz aren't Appy State, or GA Southern, or even NDSU, unfortunately, at this point in time. Are even better recruits who can compete with FBS programs going to start magically going to UM during the 'ramp-up' just to get their heads kicked in as seniors by programs that actually have the funding necessary, and the corporate base, to be competitive.

Boise is a top program primarily because they have a lot of money in that city. Three Fortune 500 companies have or have had their HQs there in the last 15 years.

In Missoula, where is the corporate funding going to come from in terms of local support? Lucky Lil's?

+1... It doesn't help that Zula has the worst business environment reputation of any moderate sized town in Montana. Getting a large corporation to move there is like a "lotto pull". :evil: