A move up would be the End of eGriz

['68griz]

Everett, I'm not commenting one way or another on your belief that UM should move up. I just want to know where they might move to....

 

[EverettGriz]

Everett, I'm not commenting one way or another on your belief that UM should move up. I just want to know where they might move to....

Obviously, that's the $64,000 question. Right now their options are clearly limited. And FWIW, I thought the decision not to join the WAC was the correct one, given the way that league was collapsing.

I'm certainly not proposing that the opportunity is there right now for the Griz. I'm simply suggesting that to rule out the chance to move up if and when the opportunity does come simply because we're Montana and we're too small is ridiculous. I DO think an opportunity will arise soon, and UM better take a serious look at it. Because playing a conference game in front of 1,589 people in Ellensberg, with the winds wafting over from the slaughter houses is not the ideal model for Griz football.

 

[Proud Griz Man]

Many teams that have moved up (and been successful) did not dominate right before moving up.

That makes me Curious Everett, what gives you confidence that UM can succeed?
& here is a sampling of past matchups with potential move-up competition:
1982 - at Hawaii................................... L.................. 40-0
1984 - Army*...................................... L................ 45-31
1984 - at Boise State............................ L.................. 35-7
1985 - at Minnesota............................. L................ 62-17
1985 - Boise State............................... L.................. 28-3
1986 - at Boise State............................ L.................. 31-0
1987 - Boise State..............................W.................. 12-3
1988 - at Boise State............................ L................ 31-28
1989 - at Fresno State.......................... L................ 52-37
1989 - Boise State..............................W................ 48-13
1990 - at Oregon State........................W................ 22-15
1990 - at Boise State............................ L.................. 41-3
1991 - Boise State..............................W.................. 21-7
1992 - at Washington State.................. L................ 25-13
1992 - at Kansas State......................... L................ 27-12
1992 - at Boise State............................ L................ 27-21
1993 - at Oregon.................................. L................ 35-30
1993 - Boise State..............................W................ 38-24
1994 - at North Texas..........................W................ 21-17
1994 - at Boise State............................ L................ 38-14
1995 - at Washington State.................. L................ 38-21
1995 - Boise State..............................W................ 54-28
1995 - at Marshall**...........................W................ 22-20
1996 - at Oregon State........................W................ 35-14
1996 - at Marshall**............................ L................ 49-29
1997 - at Wyoming.............................. L................ 28-13
2001 - Hawaii (in Maui) ....................... L ............... 30-12
2005 - at Oregon.................................. L................ 47-14
2006 - at Iowa..................................... L.................. 41-7
2011 - at Tennessee............................. L................ 16-42

 

[get'em_griz]

Many teams that have moved up (and been successful) did not dominate right before moving up.

That makes me Curious Everett, what gives you confidence that UM can succeed?
& here is a sampling of past matchups with potential move-up competition:
1982 - at Hawaii................................... L.................. 40-0
1984 - Army*...................................... L................ 45-31
1984 - at Boise State............................ L.................. 35-7
1985 - at Minnesota............................. L................ 62-17
1985 - Boise State............................... L.................. 28-3
1986 - at Boise State............................ L.................. 31-0
1987 - Boise State..............................W.................. 12-3
1988 - at Boise State............................ L................ 31-28
1989 - at Fresno State.......................... L................ 52-37
1989 - Boise State..............................W................ 48-13
1990 - at Oregon State........................W................ 22-15
1990 - at Boise State............................ L.................. 41-3
1991 - Boise State..............................W.................. 21-7
1992 - at Washington State.................. L................ 25-13
1992 - at Kansas State......................... L................ 27-12
1992 - at Boise State............................ L................ 27-21
1993 - at Oregon.................................. L................ 35-30
1993 - Boise State..............................W................ 38-24
1994 - at North Texas..........................W................ 21-17
1994 - at Boise State............................ L................ 38-14
1995 - at Washington State.................. L................ 38-21
1995 - Boise State..............................W................ 54-28
1995 - at Marshall**...........................W................ 22-20
1996 - at Oregon State........................W................ 35-14
1996 - at Marshall**............................ L................ 49-29
1997 - at Wyoming.............................. L................ 28-13
2001 - Hawaii (in Maui) ....................... L ............... 30-12
2005 - at Oregon.................................. L................ 47-14
2006 - at Iowa..................................... L.................. 41-7
2011 - at Tennessee............................. L................ 16-42

It looks like quite a few of those games were pretty competitive for the most part, minus a few games. With the extra scholarships we'd get to get more even with the competition, I'd say we could be pretty successful.

 

[MrTitleist]

I'll make it simple for you mr. titleist: Now is not the time to move up, because the Griz football team is not dominating BSC-level and 1-AA/FCS- level competition and the national and regional economic facts do not support the move. I did not say that the Griz had not ever beat Southern Utah, EWU, NoDak, and State. I did not mention NAU, ISU, Weber or Sac State. You earn a D minus for reading comprehesion. :clap:

Well if we could all just cherry pick stats to make our argument this would be much easier. You're picking ONE year out of the last 20 to say "the Griz are not dominating the BSC and 1-AA. Montana has missed the playoffs twice in the last what.. 20-25 years. There's not many teams in the entire history of college football that can say they have been to the post-season that many times in as many seasons. I mentioned those teams because you were cherry picking.. so I did the same. Teams moving up are in much worse cases than we currently are, but they are weighing the risk/reward.. many of them feel the reward outweighs the risk.. so goodbye JMU, AppSt, GaSo, and the list continues on and on.

 

[MrTitleist]

Many teams that have moved up (and been successful) did not dominate right before moving up.

That makes me Curious Everett, what gives you confidence that UM can succeed?
& here is a sampling of past matchups with potential move-up competition:
1982 - at Hawaii................................... L.................. 40-0
1984 - Army*...................................... L................ 45-31
1984 - at Boise State............................ L.................. 35-7
1985 - at Minnesota............................. L................ 62-17
1985 - Boise State............................... L.................. 28-3
1986 - at Boise State............................ L.................. 31-0
1987 - Boise State..............................W.................. 12-3
1988 - at Boise State............................ L................ 31-28
1989 - at Fresno State.......................... L................ 52-37
1989 - Boise State..............................W................ 48-13
1990 - at Oregon State........................W................ 22-15
1990 - at Boise State............................ L.................. 41-3
1991 - Boise State..............................W.................. 21-7
1992 - at Washington State.................. L................ 25-13
1992 - at Kansas State......................... L................ 27-12
1992 - at Boise State............................ L................ 27-21
1993 - at Oregon.................................. L................ 35-30
1993 - Boise State..............................W................ 38-24
1994 - at North Texas..........................W................ 21-17
1994 - at Boise State............................ L................ 38-14
1995 - at Washington State.................. L................ 38-21
1995 - Boise State..............................W................ 54-28
1995 - at Marshall**...........................W................ 22-20
1996 - at Oregon State........................W................ 35-14
1996 - at Marshall**............................ L................ 49-29
1997 - at Wyoming.............................. L................ 28-13
2001 - Hawaii (in Maui) ....................... L ............... 30-12
2005 - at Oregon.................................. L................ 47-14
2006 - at Iowa..................................... L.................. 41-7
2011 - at Tennessee............................. L................ 16-42

Again, you're cherry picking. The last three play-up games were against BCS conference teams.. there's a HUGE disparity between the Big Sky and the SEC, Pac-12, and B1G. The only relevant games in here are the ones against Boise because that was a level playing field against equal competition.

 

[OptimusPrime]

Q: What FBS conference will take UM and why. (Pictures are welcomed.)

 

[grizindabox]

Since when does a team have to dominate at FCS to move to FBS? Also, there is no history to base how UM would do if they did move to the FBS level, because there is nothing comparable in modern UM history.

 

[Proud Griz Man]

pretty successful? :? :? :?

Since you're an eternal optimist; here you go:

I would be willing, yes glad, to see a battle every day during my life.
George Armstrong Custer

There are not enough Indians in the world to defeat the Seventh Cavalry.
George Armstrong Custer

Benteen, come on, big village, be quick. Bring packs.
George Armstrong Custer

 

[grizindabox]

PGM, don't kid yourself. A move to FBS would be completely fueled by finances. On the field performance is only an issue to a certain point and none of that has anything to do with FCS results.

 

[griz5700]

Anyone who mentions wins from the past season in regards to making the jump is an idiot. We need to look at our history and make a plan to ensure our program continues to grow. FCS or FBS, I don't care, I just want us to keep moving forward.

2012 was the worst year overall for our program and fans but we still averaged what, 25K a game? Impressive imo.

 

[Proud Griz Man]

Again, you're cherry picking. The last three play-up games were against BCS conference teams.. there's a HUGE disparity between the Big Sky and the SEC, Pac-12, and B1G. The only relevant games in here are the ones against Boise because that was a level playing field against equal competition.

You're dense. I said "sampling".

Plus, if they are relevant to you or not, UM played them. And there is no plan to quit playing the SEC, Pac-12, and B1G ala "Show me the money". A move-up makes the liklihood of playing money games against BCS teams greater, to fund the additional $1-2-3 million additional athletic budget. JMHO.

 

[Proud Griz Man]

PGM, don't kid yourself. A move to FBS would be completely fueled by finances. On the field performance is only an issue to a certain point and none of that has anything to do with FCS results.

No kidding here. The biggest schools in the bowl conferences make tremendous profits from football and their athletic programs. A truly Classic case of the "Haves - versus the Have-nots".

 

[MrTitleist]

Plus, if they are relevant to you or not, UM played them. And there is no plan to quit playing the SEC, Pac-12, and B1G ala "Show me the money". A move-up makes the liklihood of playing money games against BCS teams greater, to fund the additional $1-2-3 million additional athletic budget. JMHO.

If you've been reading the college football boards and articles over the last few months you'll see that play-up games against the Big 5 are going to becoming more and more scarce.. SOS is going to be important for playoff positioning once BCS 2.0 comes into play.. which means cupcakes will no longer fill the schedules of Big 5 teams. They'll be looking at the other 5 of FBS for games. So yes, while UM may not have a plan to stop playing those games, the Big 5 have a plan to stop.

 

[MrTitleist]

Q: What FBS conference will take UM and why. (Pictures are welcomed.)

Seems like the Sun Belt might expand West.. hard telling what the MW is going to do.. I hate to think they're going to stand around. I would think the Sun Belt would form two divisions, East and West, and it wouldn't surprise me to see Montana/MSU involved in that discussion. Conference USA is a mess right now, hard telling what their plan is.

 

[Proud Griz Man]

Plus, if they are relevant to you or not, UM played them. And there is no plan to quit playing the SEC, Pac-12, and B1G ala "Show me the money". A move-up makes the liklihood of playing money games against BCS teams greater, to fund the additional $1-2-3 million additional athletic budget. JMHO.

If you've been reading the college football boards and articles over the last few months you'll see that play-up games against the Big 5 are going to becoming more and more scarce.. SOS is going to be important for playoff positioning once BCS 2.0 comes into play.. which means cupcakes will no longer fill the schedules of Big 5 teams. They'll be looking at the other 5 of FBS for games. So yes, while UM may not have a plan to stop playing those games, the Big 5 have a plan to stop.

The play-up games are always scarce. They often occur (e.g. - Oregon, Iowa, Tennessee) when a scheduling cancellation occurs, or a 12th game is allowed.

 

[grizindabox]

PGM, I still believe that the Pac12, Big10, Big12 etc will quit scheduling FCS games and instead play more Sunbelt and MAC schools. This will essentially direct all the financial trickle down to those schools and put FCS in a bad spot with many schools unable to keep football afloat. Heck, Big 10 is going to put a stop to FCS games very soon and the other will follow.

 

[OptimusPrime]

Q: What FBS conference will take UM and why. (Pictures are welcomed.)

Seems like the Sun Belt might expand West.. hard telling what the MW is going to do.. I hate to think they're going to stand around. I would think the Sun Belt would form two divisions, East and West, and it wouldn't surprise me to see Montana/MSU involved in that discussion. Conference USA is a mess right now, hard telling what their plan is.

I did not hear about the Sun Belt expanding west. If they had two 8 team divisions that eliminated long travel times, that could work. What would West consist of for teams?

 

[Proud Griz Man]

Q: What FBS conference will take UM and why. (Pictures are welcomed.)

Seems like the Sun Belt might expand West.. hard telling what the MW is going to do.. I hate to think they're going to stand around. I would think the Sun Belt would form two divisions, East and West, and it wouldn't surprise me to see Montana/MSU involved in that discussion. Conference USA is a mess right now, hard telling what their plan is.

Cherry-picking again here. Interesting that you mentioned sun belt. Here are the 2012 football results for U of North Texas:

Date Opponent Location Results
Sat, Sep 01 LSU at Baton Rouge, LA 14 - 41 (L)
Sat, Sep 08 Texas Southern Denton, TX 34 - 7 (W)
Sat, Sep 15 Kansas State at Manhattan, KS 21 - 35 (L)
Sat, Sep 22 Troy - Family Weekend * Denton, TX 7 - 14 (L)
Sat, Sep 29 Florida Atlantic * at Boca Raton, FL 20 - 14 (W)
Sat, Oct 06 Houston at Houston, TX 21 - 44 (L)
Tue, Oct 16 Louisiana-Lafayette * Denton, TX 30 - 23 (W)
Sat, Oct 27 Middle Tennessee * at Murfreesboro, TN 21 - 38 (L)
Sat, Nov 03 Arkansas State - Homecoming * Denton, TX 19 - 37 (L)
Sat, Nov 10 South Alabama - Preview * Denton, TX 24 - 14 (W)
Sat, Nov 17 ULM * at Monroe, LA 16 - 42 (L)
Sat, Nov 24 Western Kentucky * at Bowling Green, KY 24 - 25 (L)
Sun Belt Network * Conference Games

http://www2.indystar.com/NCAA_financial_reports/expense_stat/show?school_id=68" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

University of North Texas (unusual database & it could be from 2010 or 2011?)
UNT Athletic Dept. = Income $10.6mm versus Expenses $13.7mm and loss of $3.1mm.
UNT football only = Income $1.88mm vers Expenses $3.66mm and loss of $1.78mm.

 

[Proud Griz Man]

PGM, I still believe that the Pac12, Big10, Big12 etc will quit scheduling FCS games and instead play more Sunbelt and MAC schools. This will essentially direct all the financial trickle down to those schools and put FCS in a bad spot with many schools unable to keep football afloat. Heck, Big 10 is going to put a stop to FCS games very soon and the other will follow.

No argument about their intent, until there is some unusual situation where a Big school has a scheduling issue and needs to fill a 100,000 seat stadium on a saturday.