A little roster update

[CDAGRIZ]

Again, if you’re not being intentionally obtuse, you’d realize that the average FCS player today is better than the average FCS player of yesteryear.

Take a look at the Griz which has been one of the best teams in FCS. I don’t think our average player today is better than our average player 20 years ago. Maybe I don’t understand your point?

I think you’ve absolutely nailed the point.

 

[Alaska Griz]

Take a look at the Griz which has been one of the best teams in FCS. I don’t think our average player today is better than our average player 20 years ago. Maybe I don’t understand your point?

I think you’ve absolutely nailed the point.

:lol:

 

[AZGrizFan]

We played JMU in the quarters in 2021.

And Weber st. in the quarters in 2019.

Well that’s just me not understanding what the quarters are. :lol: :lol:

I mean, we DID lose both those games, so there’s that.

I quit.

 

[uofmman1122]

Not a chance. I’m suggesting that the level of athletes at the top of the FCS in 2023 would’ve likely played big time college football 20+ years ago. Like any sport, they are better on average, and there are more of them.

I’m almost afraid to post as we will quickly hear from Helena and his clone 1122. I disagree with you, however, as I don’t see the FCS talent today (with exceptions) coming close to the best players of college football twenty years ago.

Spanky, I have nothing against you or your opinion that we need fewer Montana players.

It's when you come on here and insult our players that it rubs me the wrong way, especially when you have no proof of them being as bad as you claim and are afraid to list the ones you think aren't good enough.

 

[Spanky2]

I’m almost afraid to post as we will quickly hear from Helena and his clone 1122. I disagree with you, however, as I don’t see the FCS talent today (with exceptions) coming close to the best players of college football twenty years ago.

Spanky, I have nothing against you or your opinion that we need fewer Montana players.

It's when you come on here and insult our players that it rubs me the wrong way, especially when you have no proof of them being as bad as you claim and are afraid to list the ones you think aren't good enough.

I won’t list individual players and I don’t think any of them are bad. I do say that half of our roster dedicated to Montana kids is not in the best interest of the program as many don’t have FCS level talent. Apparently you believe all of them have FCS talent.

 

[Da Boyz Mom]

And Weber st. in the quarters in 2019.

Well that’s just me not understanding what the quarters are. :lol: :lol:

I mean, we DID lose both those games, so there’s that.

I quit.

Yes we did lose both those games but It's hard to win on the road in the playoffs. The trick is winning more regular season games in order to get home playoff games as we all know. I'm hopeful for this year which probably means I'm wearing maroon colored glasses but I'm okay with that.

 

[AZGrizFan]

Well that’s just me not understanding what the quarters are. :lol: :lol:

I mean, we DID lose both those games, so there’s that.

I quit.

Yes we did lose both those games but It's hard to win on the road in the playoffs. The trick is winning more regular season games in order to get home playoff games as we all know. I'm hopeful for this year which probably means I'm wearing maroon colored glasses but I'm okay with that.

Kind of my point all along when people argue “10 wins is a good season”. If you only win 7-8 regular season games you are going on the road, guaranteed by the 2nd game. The playoff road is NEVER kind. Griz road playoff record is abysmal. So, while people like Player can say that finishing 6th and going 4-4 in conference doesn’t mean anything because we got into the playoffs, he’s wrong. It’s not important to win the conference to put another trophy in a trophy case. It’s important because it guarantees you HOME games throughout the playoffs. It’s no coincidence that the Griz stopped going deep into the playoffs when they stopped winning the conference title.

 

[Alaska Griz]

Yes we did lose both those games but It's hard to win on the road in the playoffs. The trick is winning more regular season games in order to get home playoff games as we all know. I'm hopeful for this year which probably means I'm wearing maroon colored glasses but I'm okay with that.

Kind of my point all along when people argue “10 wins is a good season”. If you only win 7-8 regular season games you are going on the road, guaranteed by the 2nd game. The playoff road is NEVER kind. Griz road playoff record is abysmal. So, while people like Player can say that finishing 6th and going 4-4 in conference doesn’t mean anything because we got into the playoffs, he’s wrong. It’s not important to win the conference to put another trophy in a trophy case. It’s important because it guarantees you HOME games throughout the playoffs. It’s no coincidence that the Griz stopped going deep into the playoffs when they stopped winning the conference title.

Yep, securing home field in playoffs is essential. Hopefully a cat fan can confirm this or correct me, but I believe MSdUi's only road playoff win since 1984 came two years ago against SHSU?

 

[uofmman1122]

Spanky, I have nothing against you or your opinion that we need fewer Montana players.

It's when you come on here and insult our players that it rubs me the wrong way, especially when you have no proof of them being as bad as you claim and are afraid to list the ones you think aren't good enough.

I won’t list individual players and I don’t think any of them are bad. I do say that half of our roster dedicated to Montana kids is not in the best interest of the program as many don’t have FCS level talent. Apparently you believe all of them have FCS talent.

I think Montana kids come in on mostly partial and walk-on money, and, just like a lot of other out of state recruits when they first come in, aren't good enough to contribute.

The ones that end up getting good enough stick around and end up contributing, and the ones that don't leave the team.

I don't think anyone from Montana on our 2-deep isn't good enough to play in FCS. If you disagree, I'd still love to hear who you think they are and why they aren't good enough.

If you want to talk about the ones that are lower-level depth players on partials and walk-on scholarships, that's a legitimate discussion to have, but as has already been pointed out multiple times, the ones that truly aren't good enough don't stay on the team.

I also think that if you replaced those kids with borderline FCS talent out of state recruits, you're going to have the same thing happen with maybe only a few rare exceptions.

 

[Copper Griz]

I don’t buy that Montana kids on the roster aren’t good enough for FCS. The problem has been a good QB, regardless where they originate from. If you have a good QB - you are far ahead of many foes in FCS. Brown has not been stellar, but neither has anyone else. Seems like a damn revolving door the last five years. Yes, injuries played a role in that, but damn find a way to develop a QB. Hopefully that occurs with one currently on the roster. Maybe develop two! Huot, Ah Yat, Bueller, Bueller.

 

[Spanky2]

I don’t buy that Montana kids on the roster aren’t good enough for FCS. The problem has been a good QB, regardless where they originate from. If you have a good QB - you are far ahead of many foes in FCS. Brown has not been stellar, but neither has anyone else. Seems like a damn revolving door the last five years. Yes, injuries played a role in that, but damn find a way to develop a QB. Hopefully that occurs with one currently on the roster. Maybe develop two! Huot, Ah Yat, Bueller, Bueller.

I buy that some of them are good enough for FCS, not 47.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

I don’t buy that Montana kids on the roster aren’t good enough for FCS. The problem has been a good QB, regardless where they originate from. If you have a good QB - you are far ahead of many foes in FCS. Brown has not been stellar, but neither has anyone else. Seems like a damn revolving door the last five years. Yes, injuries played a role in that, but damn find a way to develop a QB. Hopefully that occurs with one currently on the roster. Maybe develop two! Huot, Ah Yat, Bueller, Bueller.

I buy that some of them are good enough for FCS, not 47.

Do you not think this is similar to other schools independent of where the kids come from?

 

[Spanky2]

I buy that some of them are good enough for FCS, not 47.

Do you not think this is similar to other schools independent of where the kids come from?

No I don’t. Most other schools don’t water down their roster like UM is doing.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

Do you not think this is similar to other schools independent of where the kids come from?

No I don’t. Most other schools don’t water down their roster like UM is doing.

Sure they do. No FCS school has 70-90 sure fire FCS caliber players.

 

[grizindabox]

The only thing unique about the bottom of the roster, and this only means the walk-ons and partial kids, for UM compared to other FCS schools, is where the kids are from. In the end, most these kids, no matter the program, no matter where they are from, won't make it more than a year or two. This isn't only a FCS issue, it plays out at FBS schools also. I also believe Spanky overestimates how much scholarship money trickles down to the Montana kids, especially the freshman and sophomores.

 

[AZGrizFan]

No I don’t. Most other schools don’t water down their roster like UM is doing.

Sure they do. No FCS school has 70-90 sure fire FCS caliber players.

Agreed. If rosters weren’t watered down there’d be a lot less people in the portal.

 

[Copper Griz]

I don’t buy that Montana kids on the roster aren’t good enough for FCS. The problem has been a good QB, regardless where they originate from. If you have a good QB - you are far ahead of many foes in FCS. Brown has not been stellar, but neither has anyone else. Seems like a damn revolving door the last five years. Yes, injuries played a role in that, but damn find a way to develop a QB. Hopefully that occurs with one currently on the roster. Maybe develop two! Huot, Ah Yat, Bueller, Bueller.

I buy that some of them are good enough for FCS, not 47.

So you would rather have 47 out of state kids with similar abilities? You do realize most of the kids are walk on athletes or partial scholarship players? Do you think kids from other states should fill those roles? Would they and will they have better results? You don’t have to answer. I won’t change my position on this subject and I do respect yours. We just disagree. I think the value of Montana kids is actually understated. It pulls the fan base closer. Adds to more fans, more money and more tradition. When you do need to land the few big fish that swim in the Montana pond, you need all the help you can get! Relationships and reputation are everything. Something MSU is going to learn the hard way. DUI’s and their impact on the program are about to rear their head. Amongst others things, like a head coach who lacks institutional control and strong leadership abilities. It isn’t going unnoticed by the athletes.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

Through all of this back and forth, the only thing I feel very strongly about is that our QBs should come from out of state or be DI transfers. The sad truth is that if a Montana HS QB has real skills, he’s likely going FBS. Miss me with the counter examples from decades ago.

If we are going to run the offense we try to run effectively, we need to have QBs who have faced blitz packages and secondaries in HS against personnel who are also DI caliber. That doesn’t happen as much in-state. Let’s get and develop all the mean edge rushers we can from Malta and Glendive, but I truly believe our QB has to have faced some stuff in HS for us to be effective with this offense.

Just my opinion. Debates and attacks welcomed.
Edit to clarify: Speaking on statistical averages only, and not in absolutes. Exceptions are everywhere.

 

[oldrunner]

Okay, so here are the numbers; 26 players will be considered starters. another 22 or so will be seeing action in the rotation or on special teams, There are 64 scholarships to give out, 20 of those may be split, and there will be another 20+ guys who are walk ons. That means there are 50+ guys on every FCS team who are either walk ons or on partial grants. Of those 50+ guys, most will be local. Of the 50+ half will likely wash out the first year, but all of them deserved a chance to make it.

The chances of a walk on becoming a contributing member of the team are slim, but a dream is a dream and who's to say they won't make it. Recently, Weber had a guy go from walk on to all American. You never want to say never.

For UM to have 47 Montana guys on their roster seems about right to me.

 

[Spanky2]

Okay, so here are the numbers; 26 players will be considered starters. another 22 or so will be seeing action in the rotation or on special teams, There are 64 scholarships to give out, 20 of those may be split, and there will be another 20+ guys who are walk ons. That means there are 50+ guys on every FCS team who are either walk ons or on partial grants. Of those 50+ guys, most will be local. Of the 50+ half will likely wash out the first year, but all of them deserved a chance to make it.

The chances of a walk on becoming a contributing member of the team are slim, but a dream is a dream and who's to say they won't make it. Recently, Weber had a guy go from walk on to all American. You never want to say never.

For UM to have 47 Montana guys on their roster seems about right to me.

I’m beginning to think that 100% of our roster should be Montana kids. After all, as you comment, they deserve it.