3 Griz Arrested

[getgrizzy]

Pabst said hearing delayed upon further investigation of what charges are warranted. Did someone already say this? I didn't catch up on entire thread.

At this point, I definitely think the University has the right procedures in place. Suspension from team activities until all the facts are gathered is fair. Granted, I do expect people in their late teens and beyond to make wiser decisions than these 3 did. With all this program, school, and community been through for awhile now, like it or not, there has to be a tighter leash and more rules. I have no idea what the team rules are, but would think there has to be some sort of in season curfew in place. If not, as of now, Stitt needs to institute one.

I will reconsider my original thought of them being kicked off the team, if this turns out to be a cop going entirely too far in the charges. With that said though, it makes no sense to me, why would they go to the extremes of climbing a ladder to get into private property? If a place is locked and requires climbing a ladder to gain access, I feel that alone is a sign to not enter/trespass. Honestly, what were the 3 collectively thinking when they realized the place was locked and a ladder was needed? How in the hell do any of the 3 explain going to the extreme they did to gain access to the place? Honestly to God, what were they doing out at this time? If they wanted to have college fun, why not do it in the privacy of either of their places or a friend's place off campus? That is what we did when I was that age. Not one time did myself or anyone I hung out with ever say, "Damn, we have nowhere to go to have fun, so let's find a place, and access it, even if it means climbing a ladder to do it." This is the part that makes absolutely no sense in all this. They had to "knowingly" done this going to the extreme they did.

For their sake, they are damn lucky the property owners are pretty damn cool and laid back, and likely not pressing charges. They are also lucky to not have been shot. What are the odds of a Montanan not having a gun near by in this situation?

I'd love to be a fly on the wall wherever Stitt met with these guys just to hear the questions Stitt had to ask these 3 and how he asked them? Seriously, how could you not imply their actions were idiotic, stupid, and they are dumb asses for it? Why did you go to the extremes you did? ETC. Coach Stitt had to be absolutely pissed when he heard of this happening.

IT will be interesting to see what the whole story turns out to be. Fortunately for these 3, they have a property owner who will not make the lives of these 3 more hell. I do agree, the 3 players owe this family a face to face apology and owe this property owner for life. They should be very thankful and gracious to this owner.

Seems to me the officer did what he should have at the time based on what he knew. People illegally in someone's residence and the statement from the homeowner that he overheard them discuss stealing something....burglary charges don't seem unreasonable.

Correct. Funny how the same people pleading for everyone to sit tight before judging the players are also some of those unfairly attacking the police. Classic hypocrisy.

 

[grizindabox]

Either way, ILTC, your post was considerably inappropriate and not consistent with your usual rational self.

No. Iltc was giving an example, not giving his opinion. He may have been exaggerating to make his point, but it wasn't inappropriate.

It just sickens me when people do perverted things....for example, like when getgrizzy humps his chihuahua....

 

[ilovethecats]

I understood, and even generally agree with, the point you were attempting to make. As Nzone perfectly stated however, the use of your example -- meant to be extreme or not -- was in extremely poor taste.

which was the point. you guys get trolls over here every day spouting stupid stuff. what i used as a hypothetical is no worse than crap i have read on this board for years by idiots trying to stir the pot. so of course it was in bad taste...that was the point. and as expected people jumped on it.

but what about the family? what about the kids in the house? i don't know how old they are but what if this incident really scared them? people break into homes, rob people, and worse all the time. isn't it just as inappropriate to completely disregard the feelings of this family and what it may have done to the kids? why isn't there outrage when people suggest this whole thing is blown out of proportion? what if it isn't? what if it left a family traumatized? what if the only thing that stopped this situation from being worse is the fact that the police were called? what if...?

to me you guys are just proving my point. use an example that is very negative to griz players and there is outrage. use an example that downplays what happened with complete disregard to the family and there is not one mention.

poor taste or not i have been a part of this board for a long time. i have met many of you and have never been an internet tough guy. my example did what i thought it would, and proved my point that both of our universities have bigger problems than wins and losses on a football field. apparently, throwing out "possibilities" without knowing the facts is only ok if it makes light of the incident and backs up the players. if you go the opposite way it is tasteless and inappropriate. the reputation of the players is more important than what the family might have endured that night. and the same crap happens here in bozeman and i think it is a problem.

 

[MsMaroon]

Either way, ILTC, your post was considerably inappropriate and not consistent with your usual rational self.

No. Iltc was giving an example, not giving his opinion. He may have been exaggerating to make his point, but it wasn't inappropriate.

It just sickens me when people do perverted things....for example, like when getgrizzy humps his chihuahua....

Will someone - other than the person named - please confirm for me that getgrizzy is a man and not a woman?

 

[grizindabox]

ILTC...just because poor taste is prevalent doesn't mean you have to go that direction to make a point that you could have made differently...that is the point several are trying to make...we all get that there are bigger problems...

 

[grizindabox]

Either way, ILTC, your post was considerably inappropriate and not consistent with your usual rational self.

No. Iltc was giving an example, not giving his opinion. He may have been exaggerating to make his point, but it wasn't inappropriate.

It just sickens me when people do perverted things....for example, like when getgrizzy humps his/her chihuahua....

Will someone - other than the person named - please confirm for me that getgrizzy is a man and not a woman?

not sure the gender of getgrizzy really matters....but I will correct my initial statement...

 

[PlayerRep]

I understood, and even generally agree with, the point you were attempting to make. As Nzone perfectly stated however, the use of your example -- meant to be extreme or not -- was in extremely poor taste.

which was the point. you guys get trolls over here every day spouting stupid stuff. what i used as a hypothetical is no worse than crap i have read on this board for years by idiots trying to stir the pot. so of course it was in bad taste...that was the point. and as expected people jumped on it.

but what about the family? what about the kids in the house? i don't know how old they are but what if this incident really scared them? people break into homes, rob people, and worse all the time. isn't it just as inappropriate to completely disregard the feelings of this family and what it may have done to the kids? why isn't there outrage when people suggest this whole thing is blown out of proportion? what if it isn't? what if it left a family traumatized? what if the only thing that stopped this situation from being worse is the fact that the police were called? what if...?

to me you guys are just proving my point. use an example that is very negative to griz players and there is outrage. use an example that downplays what happened with complete disregard to the family and there is not one mention.

poor taste or not i have been a part of this board for a long time. i have met many of you and have never been an internet tough guy. my example did what i thought it would, and proved my point that both of our universities have bigger problems than wins and losses on a football field. apparently, throwing out "possibilities" without knowing the facts is only ok if it makes light of the incident and backs up the players. if you go the opposite way it is tasteless and inappropriate. the reputation of the players is more important than what the family might have endured that night. and the same crap happens here in bozeman and i think it is a problem.

The kids were probably asleep at 2:50am. There's no evidence that the family was traumatized. The guy and his wife seem like pretty cool and calm people, based on the Kaimin quotes. That doesn't mean that they weren't concerned. Looking at the Kaimin quotes, it looks like the guys were in a room that was not connected to the main house, or didn't have direct access to the house. If this was a room above a garage, most don't have direct access from that room to the house.

 

[PlayerRep]

Does the Missoula PD/Prosecutor'sOffice routinely overcharge, or just use that on UM athletes? Seems I recall UM athletes raked over the coals, Missoulian drumming the cases, only to have the charges dismissed or greatly reduced. Seems very skewed to me. Bail of $50,000 totally unwarranted. Christ, Kaarma walked for $30,000.

The problem is they got busted on a Saturday night no judge, no prosecutor, no charges (yet) had they waited until the charges are filed (this afternoon most likely) and the judge sets bail, it would have been for a lot less than 50K (most likely) The cops have no discretion in the charging. Until after the initial appearance this afternoon there is nothing to talk about. Someone is out 5000 for each kid. Money better spent on a lawyer or second semester tuition...............

As difficult as it might have been, they would have been better off sitting until this afternoon.

Thanks for your response. I would have thought a Notice to Appear for Trespassing would have been appropriate, at least based on what is known to this point. I HAVE spent a weekend in jail(DUI), can't recommend the experience, You do meet some interesting people, though.

I would venture to guess that the burglary charge stemmed from the homeowner over-hearing them talk about stealing something

I doubt that. The homeowner probably couldn't hear everything that was said, or even recall exactly what was said. They could have said something like, "Jeez, anyone could come in here and take these tools." However, 75 has pointed out that the ladder aspect would impact taking much. This looks like it should have been charged as a misdemeanor, with additional investigation to see if it merited being charged as a felony.

 

[ilovethecats]

Either way, ILTC, your post was considerably inappropriate and not consistent with your usual rational self.

No. Iltc was giving an example, not giving his opinion. He may have been exaggerating to make his point, but it wasn't inappropriate.

It just sickens me when people do perverted things....for example, like when getgrizzy humps his chihuahua....

WTF?!

i am outraged. this is completely inappropriate and in VERY poor taste. i just can't believe that in light of this people would make accusations about this...

http://www.nbcmontana.com/news/missoula-man-charged-with-having-sex-with-dog/32343818

oh wait...it's in reference to another poster and not to a player so carry on....

 

[UMGriz75]

my apologies if my example offended anyone. however, i intentionally chose an extreme example to outline my point. you can think i'm wrong and that's fine. but i can assure you i read more distasteful things like that on this board daily. and not in the context that i did which was simply illustrating a point that unless you were there...we have no idea what these kids' intentions were until the facts come out.

Reasonable minds can differ, but there has to be the "reasonable" part first. I think we can pretty much rule out the "gang rape" speculation.

 

[ilovethecats]

I understood, and even generally agree with, the point you were attempting to make. As Nzone perfectly stated however, the use of your example -- meant to be extreme or not -- was in extremely poor taste.

which was the point. you guys get trolls over here every day spouting stupid stuff. what i used as a hypothetical is no worse than crap i have read on this board for years by idiots trying to stir the pot. so of course it was in bad taste...that was the point. and as expected people jumped on it.

but what about the family? what about the kids in the house? i don't know how old they are but what if this incident really scared them? people break into homes, rob people, and worse all the time. isn't it just as inappropriate to completely disregard the feelings of this family and what it may have done to the kids? why isn't there outrage when people suggest this whole thing is blown out of proportion? what if it isn't? what if it left a family traumatized? what if the only thing that stopped this situation from being worse is the fact that the police were called? what if...?

to me you guys are just proving my point. use an example that is very negative to griz players and there is outrage. use an example that downplays what happened with complete disregard to the family and there is not one mention.

poor taste or not i have been a part of this board for a long time. i have met many of you and have never been an internet tough guy. my example did what i thought it would, and proved my point that both of our universities have bigger problems than wins and losses on a football field. apparently, throwing out "possibilities" without knowing the facts is only ok if it makes light of the incident and backs up the players. if you go the opposite way it is tasteless and inappropriate. the reputation of the players is more important than what the family might have endured that night. and the same crap happens here in bozeman and i think it is a problem.

The kids were probably asleep at 2:50am. There's no evidence that the family was traumatized. The guy and his wife seem like pretty cool and calm people, based on the Kaimin quotes. That doesn't mean that they weren't concerned. Looking at the Kaimin quotes, it looks like the guys were in a room that was not connected to the main house, or didn't have direct access to the house. If this was a room above a garage, most don't have direct access from that room to the house.

no disagreement here PR. and not one time have i intended to suggest otherwise. my whole point, and i'll leave it alone as i'm repeating myself, is that sometimes downplaying a potential incident can be as dangerous and misinformed as those that make outrageous claims trying to prove guilt. that was my only idea in all this.

 

[grizindabox]

The problem is they got busted on a Saturday night no judge, no prosecutor, no charges (yet) had they waited until the charges are filed (this afternoon most likely) and the judge sets bail, it would have been for a lot less than 50K (most likely) The cops have no discretion in the charging. Until after the initial appearance this afternoon there is nothing to talk about. Someone is out 5000 for each kid. Money better spent on a lawyer or second semester tuition...............

As difficult as it might have been, they would have been better off sitting until this afternoon.

Thanks for your response. I would have thought a Notice to Appear for Trespassing would have been appropriate, at least based on what is known to this point. I HAVE spent a weekend in jail(DUI), can't recommend the experience, You do meet some interesting people, though.

I would venture to guess that the burglary charge stemmed from the homeowner over-hearing them talk about stealing something

I doubt that. The homeowner probably couldn't hear everything that was said, or even recall exactly what was said. They could have said something like, "Jeez, anyone could come in here and take these tools." However, 75 has pointed out that the ladder aspect would impact taking much. This looks like it should have been charged as a misdemeanor, with additional investigation to see if it merited being charged as a felony.

Straight from the Kaimin article you have noted several times:

"The home owner said he heard the four students talked about taking something, but the homeowner said nothing was stolen or damaged."

seems to me that could be considered attempted burglary....

 

[ilovethecats]

my apologies if my example offended anyone. however, i intentionally chose an extreme example to outline my point. you can think i'm wrong and that's fine. but i can assure you i read more distasteful things like that on this board daily. and not in the context that i did which was simply illustrating a point that unless you were there...we have no idea what these kids' intentions were until the facts come out.

Reasonable minds can differ, but there has to be the "reasonable" part first. I think we can pretty much rule out the "gang rape" speculation.

to be fair...i never said gang rape. i said rape or gang bang! one we all agree is completely disgusting and illegal while the other is legal and sometimes fun...

but point taken.

 

[Raider]

Sorry I am late to the party. I am trying to catch up here.

So, if I am reading all this correctly, 3 Griz players broke into a house in the middle of the night to gang rape a chihuahua??

Wow, that is fucked up man!

 

[grizindabox]

Sorry I am late to the party. I am trying to catch up here.

So, if I am reading all this correctly, 3 Griz players broke into a house in the middle of the night to gang rape a chihuahua??

Wow, that is f***[*] up man!

that is the gist of it...you just left out the part about PR trying to justify it....

 

[PlayerRep]

I can't help but notice that PlayerRep writes a lengthy post about MSU players doing something similar, asks what their punishment was, and when it's answered that the Bobcat players had their scholarships pulled and were suspended for a year, that comparison is magically forgotten. Nope, no reason to bring that up again!

That's about as chickensh*t as messageboard posting gets.

Lengthy post? My post was a few sentences, with a quote from an old article. Note that the Cat players were never charged with a felony, despite going into the house, scaring the owner at least to some extent, and running from the cops before going into the house and then after leaving the house.

Unless there are bad facts, it looks like the UM incident should not have been charged as a felony. From what Pabst said, i.e. that the prosecutors didn't see evidence of a felony, this will likely not be charged as a felony--unless the continuing investigation finds new/more facts meriting a felony.

The information on how the Cat players were treated is instructional, both under the criminal law and by the school/team. The latter is why I asked the question. If no more bad facts come out (and I have no clue whether they will or not), then the Cat situation was probably worse. Running from the cops, twice, and going into an occupied (meaning not being renovated) house through a window and running through part of the house (I think). It will be interesting to see what the reason for entering the house (perhaps unfinished room above the garage) is.

For the record, I defended, on the internet, the Cat kids at the time of their incident. Stupid, etc., but not meriting much legal punishment. They were probably going to red shirt anyhow, so suspending them for a year wasn't a huge deal. Taking away their scholarships, if that occurred, was a bigger deal.

 

[ilovethecats]

Sorry I am late to the party. I am trying to catch up here.

So, if I am reading all this correctly, 3 Griz players broke into a house in the middle of the night to gang rape a chihuahua??

Wow, that is f***[*] up man!

one might say you're just throwing out some "possibilities"...

 

[PlayerRep]

Thanks for your response. I would have thought a Notice to Appear for Trespassing would have been appropriate, at least based on what is known to this point. I HAVE spent a weekend in jail(DUI), can't recommend the experience, You do meet some interesting people, though.

I would venture to guess that the burglary charge stemmed from the homeowner over-hearing them talk about stealing something

I doubt that. The homeowner probably couldn't hear everything that was said, or even recall exactly what was said. They could have said something like, "Jeez, anyone could come in here and take these tools." However, 75 has pointed out that the ladder aspect would impact taking much. This looks like it should have been charged as a misdemeanor, with additional investigation to see if it merited being charged as a felony.

Straight from the Kaimin article you have noted several times:

"The home owner said he heard the four students talked about taking something, but the homeowner said nothing was stolen or damaged."

seems to me that could be considered attempted burglary....

No, you are not correct.

 

[grizindabox]

I would venture to guess that the burglary charge stemmed from the homeowner over-hearing them talk about stealing something

I doubt that. The homeowner probably couldn't hear everything that was said, or even recall exactly what was said. They could have said something like, "Jeez, anyone could come in here and take these tools." However, 75 has pointed out that the ladder aspect would impact taking much. This looks like it should have been charged as a misdemeanor, with additional investigation to see if it merited being charged as a felony.

Straight from the Kaimin article you have noted several times:

"The home owner said he heard the four students talked about taking something, but the homeowner said nothing was stolen or damaged."

seems to me that could be considered attempted burglary....

No, you are not correct.

So that quote isn't straight from the Kaimin article....or you didn't refer to it because it counters your agenda...

 

[PlayerRep]

Sorry I am late to the party. I am trying to catch up here.

So, if I am reading all this correctly, 3 Griz players broke into a house in the middle of the night to gang rape a chihuahua??

Wow, that is f***[*] up man!

Is going into an unfinished room above a garage, through a large opening--in a house being renovated and when the room isn't directed connected to the house, "breaking in"? I'm curious about why they went in (and scooted up the ladder).