3-3-5

[hunt-ducks]

Take a step back and think about the big picture.

Really, the main difference between a 4-3 and a 3-3-5 is one player is standing up instead of starting with his fingers in the dirt. I realize there is more to it than that but just bear with me for a sec.

A LBer moves down, a DL goes out, and a S comes in. That’s it.

That simple change provides more flexibility, more athleticism, and more speed on the field, particularly against spread teams and in passing coverage. There are usually still 4 on the LOS for run support, and can easily put 8 in the box, but unlike a typical DL, that last guy can also contribute to pass D.

Now apply that to the last game. O’Connell was everywhere, a total beast out there. With run support, TFLs in the backfield, rushing the QB (thought he had a sack), AND defending passes. Would you really not want him playing like that, or not on the field? He might be our best pass rusher.

We’ve got the personnel for this 3-3 right now. By just claiming we should be running a 4-3 without explaining the personnel and specific changes, you’re really just throwing out a hot-take with no substance. Typical growler popcorn fart.

Who would you take out/put in? My guess is duckhunt would take out the nickel (Nash) and put in a DT. But who?!? Do you realize there are only 3 “DTs” on the entire roster? So if you put in two DTs, there would be only one sub for both?!? Sounds crazy to me, especially considering good DTs in the FCS are like searching for Bigfoot.

Most importantly, the whole stadium knew we were blitzing a ton, but nobody knew where. The disguise/confusion aspect from a 3-3 cannot be understated.

You make some valid points, save for the cryptic slams. To me, the 3-3-5 is more like a nickle package for a 4-3 or 3-4 base defense. Essentially, you are playing a smaller coverage player instead of a bigger player who might be better able to stop the run. As I have said over and over in these discussions......... every team has various packages which put their defense into a 3-3-5 formation. It's just that their base defense is either a 3-4 or 4-3, which they utilize on first down most of the time. There is a reason that Power 5 teams, and NFL teams, use either a 4-3 or 3-4 base defense. That's all I am saying.

 

[AZGrizFan]

Didn't Baer run the 3-3-5 at his last couple of stops too?

He did? I didn't know that. Which stops along his coaching foray did he fun the 3-3-5? Hey, he may be a believer and will never change.

My understanding when he was hired was that he brought it with him and had used it previously in his coaching career….which only makes sense because no BH-coached team has ever used a 3-3-5 before now….at least not that I’m aware.

 

[garizzalies]

There is a reason that Power 5 teams, and NFL teams, use either a 4-3 or 3-4 base defense. That's all I am saying.

Ok but you didn’t address the reason we use a 3-3 in the FCS, including our current personnel and lack of Bigfoot DTs. Again, we technically have only 3 DTs on the roster.

 

[Jesse]

Didn't Baer run the 3-3-5 at his last couple of stops too?

He did? I didn't know that. Which stops along his coaching foray did he fun the 3-3-5? Hey, he may be a believer and will never change.

It seemed to work pretty well the last 3 games. What’s broke? I have heard he is an old school true believer and they have been recruiting for this defense and are now 2 and 3 deep. He’s not changing and either are the Griz. It obviously also creates issues for teams who have never seen it. My understanding of it is that if every player does what he is coached to do, stay at home and read rather then always react, that makes it tough to block against. After the snap be positioned where you practiced to be, flow and and make tackles, especially the linebackers and safety. I’m thinking it will become a Griz trademark defense. Go Griz go coach Baer and coach Sacks.

 

[hunt-ducks]

He did? I didn't know that. Which stops along his coaching foray did he fun the 3-3-5? Hey, he may be a believer and will never change.

It seemed to work pretty well the last 3 games. What’s broke? I have heard he is an old school true believer and they have been recruiting for this defense and are now 2 and 3 deep. He’s not changing and either are the Griz. It obviously also creates issues for teams who have never seen it. My understanding of it is that if every player does what he is coached to do, stay at home and read rather then always react, that makes it tough to block against. After the snap be positioned where you practiced to be, flow and and make tackles, especially the linebackers and safety. I’m thinking it will become a Griz trademark defense. Go Griz go coach Baer and coach Sacks.

I guess the power 5 teams and the NFL teams to need to come to Montana and learn how to play our defense.

Maybe we should just adopt the flex defense, that one always worked.

 

[kemajic]

It seemed to work pretty well the last 3 games. What’s broke? I have heard he is an old school true believer and they have been recruiting for this defense and are now 2 and 3 deep. He’s not changing and either are the Griz. It obviously also creates issues for teams who have never seen it. My understanding of it is that if every player does what he is coached to do, stay at home and read rather then always react, that makes it tough to block against. After the snap be positioned where you practiced to be, flow and and make tackles, especially the linebackers and safety. I’m thinking it will become a Griz trademark defense. Go Griz go coach Baer and coach Sacks.

I guess the power 5 teams and the NFL teams to need to come to Montana and learn how to play our defense.

Maybe we should just adopt the flex defense, that one always worked.

When this one no longer does. Right now, anyone advocating to change our defensive scheme, our strength, is sounding pretty silly. As silly as those advocating to change our QB now.

 

[hunt-ducks]

I guess the power 5 teams and the NFL teams to need to come to Montana and learn how to play our defense.

Maybe we should just adopt the flex defense, that one always worked.

When this one no longer does. Right now, anyone advocating to change our defensive scheme, our strength, is sounding pretty silly. As silly as those advocating to change our QB now.

I hope you don't have to eat yours words regarding our QB

 

[kemajic]

When this one no longer does. Right now, anyone advocating to change our defensive scheme, our strength, is sounding pretty silly. As silly as those advocating to change our QB now.

I hope you don't have to eat yours words regarding our QB

The season ahead may challenge positions like QB, now, not so much. I'm amazed at what expectations some have of a QB's play against one of the top FBS defenses in the country. A game he engineered a stunning upset. He was a gamer. Criticism should be held until it's deserved.

 

[hunt-ducks]

I hope you don't have to eat yours words regarding our QB

The season ahead may challenge positions like QB, now, not so much. I'm amazed at what expectations some have of a QB's play against one of the top FBS defenses in the country. A game he engineered a stunning upset. Criticism should be held until it's deserved.

I don't see anyone criticizing his play in the UDUB game. He did the same things in that game that I have been critical of since he started several games last season, which is deliver every pass as hot as he can do so, leading to in-completions and inaccuracy problems. His bullet passes actually helped on one short sideline out, in which our WR made a tough catch (it may have been Akem) with the defender only a fraction of a second from making the interception. If he doesn't throw it hot, it is an interception. He should have never thrown that pass, because the receiver was covered, but he tried to gun it in anyway. The result was a 4-yard completion, but easily could have been intercepted. Once again, his decision-making on throwing into coverage is a concern. It worked this time, but the result will not always be the same.

Why is it that a performance by a player can not be critiqued, just because we had a great game? Do you think the coaches will not critique every play, and every player following that game, even though it was a great win?

It is not "being a bad fan" to make observations about the game, even after a great win. This is a football discussion site, or is it? Sometimes I wonder.

 

[3-7-77]

I hope you don't have to eat yours words regarding our QB

A game he engineered a stunning upset. He was a gamer. Criticism should be held until it's deserved.

Eat his own words? That will never happen. Not a knock on Kem, I am referring to scores of posters on the entire board. Less than a handful have done so, through all the topics presented here. Sweep it under the rug, no one will know. :roll: Why is admitting being wrong so hard to do?

"...he(Cam)engineered..." Is Rosie out of a job? Seems to me the OC and HC might have something to do with that part of the game plan.

 

[fanofzoo]

I hope you don't have to eat yours words regarding our QB

The season ahead may challenge positions like QB, now, not so much. I'm amazed at what expectations some have of a QB's play against one of the top FBS defenses in the country. A game he engineered a stunning upset. He was a gamer. Criticism should be held until it's deserved.

Sweet Jesus I agree.

 

[Diesel]

3-3-5 defense is only as good as the players and how well play within the scheme. Last week was an example of a well coached team playing within their scheme, they also had the depth, speed and size to compete against a good Pac 12 offense. As per QB for Griz the starter is the starter and did nothing to jeopardize his position on the depth chart. This Griz roster has depth at all positions and although we are playing at 3rd and 4th string at some positions there are enough bodies to fill in where there is a need. This is credit to the coaches. No need to change starting QB, but it would be nice to see Brown get some meaningful reps through season so he would be better prepared in case of injury. UW wasn't the game to baptize Brown and even if he looked better in his game reps it shouldn't change who is starting. IMO

 

[MikeyGriz]

3-3-5 defense is only as good as the players and how well play within the scheme. Last week was an example of a well coached team playing within their scheme, they also had the depth, speed and size to compete against a good Pac 12 offense. As per QB for Griz the starter is the starter and did nothing to jeopardize his position on the depth chart. This Griz roster has depth at all positions and although we are playing at 3rd and 4th string at some positions there are enough bodies to fill in where there is a need. This is credit to the coaches. No need to change starting QB, but it would be nice to see Brown get some meaningful reps through season so he would be better prepared in case of injury. UW wasn't the game to baptize Brown and even if he looked better in his game reps it shouldn't change who is starting. IMO

+1

 

[hunt-ducks]

A game he engineered a stunning upset. He was a gamer. Criticism should be held until it's deserved.

Eat his own words? That will never happen. Not a knock on Kem, I am referring to scores of posters on the entire board. Less than a handful have done so, through all the topics presented here. Sweep it under the rug, no one will know. :roll: Why is admitting being wrong so hard to do?

"...he(Cam)engineered..." Is Rosie out of a job? Seems to me the PC and HC might have something to do with that part of the game plan.

Great post. I love it when our TEAM wins a great game against a ranked FBS opponent, and suddenly it was Cam who "engineered the upset". I guess the interception by Welnel, the blocking of our O-line, the great running game by our backs, the 3-0 turnover margin, or the great play of the defense, among the many other factors which came together to win the game for Montana, mean nothing........ cause it was Cam who engineered the win! :roll:

Just for the record, Cam did not exactly prove anything in this game. I gave him credit for managing the game in the fourth quarter. But the questions on his ability to "be the man" at QB remain with me. If the rest of you are now convinced about his QB play, so be it. Just be willing to admit you were wrong if his play unwinds like I predict it will. One very average performance by Cam in a game which was a collective team effort, powered mostly by our defense, does not provide anointment fodder, to me. I hope I am wrong and he is the second coming of DD. Hell, I'll settle for the second coming of Cole Berquist! But I fear it may look more like the second coming of Roper.

 

[AZGrizFan]

The season ahead may challenge positions like QB, now, not so much. I'm amazed at what expectations some have of a QB's play against one of the top FBS defenses in the country. A game he engineered a stunning upset. Criticism should be held until it's deserved.

I don't see anyone criticizing his play in the UDUB game. He did the same things in that game that I have been critical of since he started several games last season, which is deliver every pass as hot as he can do so, leading to in-completions and inaccuracy problems. His bullet passes actually helped on one short sideline out, in which our WR made a tough catch (it may have been Akem) with the defender only a fraction of a second from making the interception. If he doesn't throw it hot, it is an interception. He should have never thrown that pass, because the receiver was covered, but he tried to gun it in anyway. The result was a 4-yard completion, but easily could have been intercepted. Once again, his decision-making on throwing into coverage is a concern. It worked this time, but the result will not always be the same.

Why is it that a performance by a player can not be critiqued, just because we had a great game? Do you think the coaches will not critique every play, and every player following that game, even though it was a great win?

It is not "being a bad fan" to make observations about the game, even after a great win. This is a football discussion site, or is it? Sometimes I wonder.

Go back and read the middle of that game thread. People weren’t just criticizing his play, they were openly calling for Brown to start the 2nd half.

 

[AZGrizFan]

Eat his own words? That will never happen. Not a knock on Kem, I am referring to scores of posters on the entire board. Less than a handful have done so, through all the topics presented here. Sweep it under the rug, no one will know. :roll: Why is admitting being wrong so hard to do?

"...he(Cam)engineered..." Is Rosie out of a job? Seems to me the PC and HC might have something to do with that part of the game plan.

Great post. I love it when our TEAM wins a great game against a ranked FBS opponent, and suddenly it was Cam who "engineered the upset". I guess the interception by Welnel, the blocking of our O-line, the great running game by our backs, the 3-0 turnover margin, or the great play of the defense, among the many other factors which came together to win the game for Montana, mean nothing........ cause it was Cam who engineered the win! :roll:

Just for the record, Cam did not exactly prove anything in this game. I gave him credit for managing the game in the fourth quarter. But the questions on his ability to "be the man" at QB remain with me. If the rest of you are now convinced about his QB play, so be it. Just be willing to admit you were wrong if his play unwinds like I predict it will. One very average performance by Cam in a game which was a collective team effort, powered mostly by our defense, does not provide anointment fodder, to me. I hope I am wrong and he is the second coming of DD. Hell, I'll settle for the second coming of Cole Berquist! But I fear it may look more like the second coming of Roper.

The bigger question is will YOU be able to admit YOU were wrong when we’re 9-1 going into the brawl?

I’m guessing……NOT.

 

[Griz#64]

Look , Here's my 2cents. Hell you can line up in a GAP 8. Doesn't mean that is where you stay. Stunts and coverages are flexible. Don't get all wrapped around the axle with alignment, (Base Defense) etc. The Game has Changed technique significantly, but still boils down to Blocking and Tackling.. That's worth only about 1.cent.. Go Griz, Do not get the BIG HEAD this week..

 

[Diesel]

Just for the record, Cam did not exactly prove anything in this game. I gave him credit for managing the game in the fourth quarter. But the questions on his ability to "be the man" at QB remain with me. If the rest of you are now convinced about his QB play, so be it. Just be willing to admit you were wrong if his play unwinds like I predict it will. One very average performance by Cam in a game which was a collective team effort, powered mostly by our defense, does not provide anointment fodder, to me. I hope I am wrong and he is the second coming of DD. Hell, I'll settle for the second coming of Cole Berquist! But I fear it may look more like the second coming of Roper.
[/quote]

Just for the record you may want to look at actual footage of the game. Pay attention to how Cam worked in the pocket, he contributed to the no sacks by his effort and calmness. He got rid of the ball when needed and picked up positive yards with his feet. Easy to say he took what the defense gave him. He also took some hard hits to the point of needing to take a play off with cramps...That's average...Wow. Some people have some pretty high expectations for players. He isn't Dave and he isn't Cole nor should he be expected to be. For as few of amount of starts he has been a solid QB with exceptional running skills and based on UW game he has become much better in the pocket.
Just because you may see a collapse in a players future doesn't mean you need to brag about it and make it seem like you notice things others don't.

Even if Humphrey was to lose a game it doesn't mandate his removal as the starter. Not sure about anointment, but you may as well get used to Humphrey as starter, that anointment was done prior to the UW game and it appears to by divine order so far.

 

[3-7-77]

Great post. I love it when our TEAM wins a great game against a ranked FBS opponent, and suddenly it was Cam who "engineered the upset". I guess the interception by Welnel, the blocking of our O-line, the great running game by our backs, the 3-0 turnover margin, or the great play of the defense, among the many other factors which came together to win the game for Montana, mean nothing........ cause it was Cam who engineered the win! :roll:

Just for the record, Cam did not exactly prove anything in this game. I gave him credit for managing the game in the fourth quarter. But the questions on his ability to "be the man" at QB remain with me. If the rest of you are now convinced about his QB play, so be it. Just be willing to admit you were wrong if his play unwinds like I predict it will. One very average performance by Cam in a game which was a collective team effort, powered mostly by our defense, does not provide anointment fodder, to me. I hope I am wrong and he is the second coming of DD. Hell, I'll settle for the second coming of Cole Berquist! But I fear it may look more like the second coming of Roper.

The bigger question is will YOU be able to admit YOU were wrong when we’re 9-1 going into the brawl?

I’m guessing……NOT.

I can only speak for myself, AZ, and did speak the words 'I was wrong' about Cam, after calling for Brown in the second half. It was on the official gameday thread 'Hell'...something, page 19 at 10:28 pm. He did not have a good first half, and something needed to change. I did not believe he could change himself, but, I WAS WRONG.

 

[hunt-ducks]

Great post. I love it when our TEAM wins a great game against a ranked FBS opponent, and suddenly it was Cam who "engineered the upset". I guess the interception by Welnel, the blocking of our O-line, the great running game by our backs, the 3-0 turnover margin, or the great play of the defense, among the many other factors which came together to win the game for Montana, mean nothing........ cause it was Cam who engineered the win! :roll:

Just for the record, Cam did not exactly prove anything in this game. I gave him credit for managing the game in the fourth quarter. But the questions on his ability to "be the man" at QB remain with me. If the rest of you are now convinced about his QB play, so be it. Just be willing to admit you were wrong if his play unwinds like I predict it will. One very average performance by Cam in a game which was a collective team effort, powered mostly by our defense, does not provide anointment fodder, to me. I hope I am wrong and he is the second coming of DD. Hell, I'll settle for the second coming of Cole Berquist! But I fear it may look more like the second coming of Roper.

The bigger question is will YOU be able to admit YOU were wrong when we’re 9-1 going into the brawl?

I’m guessing……NOT.

Then you'd be guessing wrong, my friend. I have never been a warrior of the retrospective. I have the balls to make observations in writing, and will admit if I am incorrect. I told the board that there will be a huge addition to our QB group next January, and asked everyone to bookmark my post. Does that indicate someone afraid to go on record?

I'll call your bluff, and see is you are willing to make a statement, or will you prefer to be a warrior of the retrospective like most.

Please go on record to tell us whether Cam Humphrey will be the answer at QB, meaning that he will be good enough to lead us to a Big Sky Championship, and play-off run, or will he be pulled at some time during the season because of inconsistent play. I'll wait.