08/12 scrimmage [merged threads]

[PlayerRep]

No - the seam route to Gratton up the middle.

The pass on the seam route wasn't thrown low. The pass on the swing route was. That's why I thought G1 might have been talking about the swing route.

 

[poorgriz]

Thanks again to all you crackpot Griz fans for the scrimmage comments. We are getting around to football without a rape word. Sounds so good makes me want to start drinking again and again.

Old Growler came alive after hiding out in AZ over winter and he did a fine job on his critique. Our punter is great and getting better. Adam B was coach Harbaughs pick to walk on so that is a no brainer and I hope he is as good as we think he will be. We need a good QB! Looks like we have one or two.

Cat pee fans are begining to worry.....*

It's your story... make it a good one!

 

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Go ahead and go up to him and say, "let's just say he didn't look injured". I played 3 years of high school ball with a snapped peroneal tendon in my right ankle, and I didn't "look" injured, I just never spoke up about it. Now I have 4 screws and constant pain from it.

You didnt look injured last fall when I saw you at the gas station in "The Lodge"................

 

[BWahlberg]

I suppose the 4 drops (Gratton, Pierson twice, Saylor) one being a would-be 50 yard TD and the other 2 being for first downs on 3rd and short were his fault in passing as well?

I think one thing that needs to be remembered is this system requires the QB to be a good runner as well. It's hard to compare McKinney (or JJ or Brzczeck) to prior Griz QBs because this system requires a QB that can run nearly as often as he throws. At the FCS level the sacrifice of completion % is usually made to meet that, I think JJ was under 60% completion in many games until the team really heated up in November.

Additionally McKinney did not make any drive killing mistakes last night while Brzczeck made one. Trent did over throw open WRs on 3rd down but he saw where the WR was and went for it and threw to the right target. Meanwhile on a would-be TD drive Brzczeck tossed an interception on an obvious mis-communication.

I do think Trent needs to settle down in those long passes though because if he doesn't as Brzczeck learns this playbook more he'll take over the starting spot. I'm not down on either, I think in the next week or so they'll wind up battling for the starting spot and I like what I see from both at times.

I could easily see the season open with Trent and Adam splitting time to see who produces better in a live game situation.

Let's put it into perspective. Yes, there were passes dropped. The Saylor drop and the two (actually 3) by Pierson were the receiver's fault. But the supposed TD pass to Gratton was NOT a perfect throw, as you have tried to convey. The throw was low, below Gratton's waste, which is always a tough catch when running full speed. The ball should have been leading him and above the shoulders to be a perfect throw. Should Gratton have caught it? Definitely. But it was a more difficult catch than normal because he had to adjust to catching it below his waste.

Sam punching the advertising board and shouting suggests he was frustrated with himself on the drop.

Since everybody is a lawyer these days I would like the above statement stricken from the record Your Honor, as it is purely speculation on behalf of Mr.Wahlberg.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

CRAP Hopefully Pat Williams didn't see that post :?

 

[IntuitiveGriz]

I'll save you all the suspense-the offense did not look good.........at all. Trent Mckinney can't throw the ball he can run but he can't throw (why not just put Gerald Kemp out there?) the kid is playing like a freshmen out there right now. Brzeczek looks like the real deal to me that kid fires missles out there. I think it is a no-brainer Brzeczek is best quarterback on the roster he just needs some time to figure out the play book. Throws the best ball BY FAR of anyone on the team. SSH doesn't have the speed to run the zone read looks like he has cement boots on when he runs. Our receivers had stone hands really need to step it up. Running game is going to have to carry us for awile until Brzeczek comes into his own. Defense is REALLY going to have to step it up if we are going to win games early this season.

I agree 100%, grizaremoregooder! (with every word, except last sentence)

I've been shouting from practice day 1 that Adam B is BY FAR the best thrower...

 

[IntuitiveGriz]

Here are my observations from the scrimmage.... the good, the bad, and the ugly.

1) Smithwick hypenated is not a FCS caliber QB. He has terrible mechanics, shot-puts his throws, and can not get out of his own way. He is sack waiting to happen. I have to chuckle at the posters saying he has the strongest arm among the QBs.
2) McKinney is also not a FCS caliber QB. He is another Kemp, with a slightly better arm. However, he is not accurate, and makes poor decisions as to when and where to deliver the ball. He will make some exciting plays with his feet, and on broken plays, but he shows little ability to sustain a long drive without making drive-killing errors.
3) I was very impressed with Gustafson, for a kid right out of high school. He already has better mechanics than McKinney or Smithwick-H. He will become a very good QB at UM.
4) As I told everyone previously, Adam Brzeczek is the real deal. He was by far the most accurate, and poised QB on the field tonight. He had to play with the second/third team O-Line, which was like a sieve and gave him little time to throw, but he still made lots of plays. I would have loved to have seen him with the first team offense. I think it will happen soon enough. He gave-up the late pick, because he does not yet know the offense, and threw the out route while the receiver broke the play in. But, he is very talented, as any astute observer could see tonight. He is smart, sees the field well, finds second and third receivers, and has good innate football sense. Reminded me of watching DD as a freshman. He and Gustafson were the two best QBs on the field tonight.
5) As I have stated earlier, Brock Coyle is a stud. He made several big plays tonight, with the first team defense.
6) I like Ellis Henderson, the new transfer receiver from Hawaii. He looks like the down-field threat we need since Sambrano left. He needs to work on his blocking, but the dude is quick, has great moves, and lots of speed.
7) I was impressed by the play of Nate Harris and Josh Dennard. Josh has beefed up since last season, and can really deliver a blow now. He will punish some receivers this year!
8) Still not impressed with our safety play, other than Hermey. Tully is not the answer. Where was Lebsock?
9) Where was Ginn tonight? I never saw him on the field.
10) Dan Moore is not effective out of the one-back set. He has no lateral speed to get outside, and is limited to running between the tackles. I wish Rosey would install some two-back plays using Dan as the lead blocker for Canada. He could open some huge holes as a blocker.
11) Clay Pierson has terrible hands, dropping three passes tonight.
12) I do not think we will be a great running team, like many of you suggest. Our O-linemen are huge, but do not have the footwork/quickness to effectively run block. They are much better at pass blocking. We have no depth after the starters on the O-Line.
13) Our new punter is the real deal, but not sure about the FG kicker part.
14) Snaps on FGs were very erratic.
15) Zack Wagenmann is a very good player.
16) I am impressed by Tyrone Holmes, a frosh DE from Oregon. He will be a good one!

I agree with almost everything you said, growler1. Especially #4.

 

[Grizo406]

I think I have the perfect solution for the QB situation...

I know it would hurt our defense, losing such a text book tackler, but I'd suggest moving jcu from LB to QB!

If he could play both sides of the ball, then that would be a win-win for us, huh?!!?

 

[IntuitiveGriz]

A fun scrimmage, lets get right to the highlights.

1. Tyrone Holmes was the presumed star of the night, per my count 4 sacks, 1 forced fumble (whistle blew once the fumble was forced), 3 hurries. This guy explodes out of his stance and he dominated LaRowe, Schmaing, and our 3rd string tackles as well. He's looking great BUT... I want to see him do this against Poole and Kistler before I totally geek out on this guy. I saw one rep against Poole and Trevor shut him down. Holmes right now is looking like a 3rd down pass rusher for the team.

2. Adam Brzczeck is getting it, he's not there yet, but he's improving daily. He had a few good option keeps and runs, and did something Trent McKinney didn't do - find WRs deep down the field, and score a passing TD. The last play of the night showed that Adam is still learning when he threw a pick right into JP's hands, the WR never turned - obviously not on the same page.

3. Trent McKinney operates the ground game very well. Despite on a 3rd down zone where he kept the ball and you could hear Dan Moore yell, "gimme the godd*mned ball!!!" Trent did pick up the 1st down. He is a quick and shifty runner and twice moved the offense a very long ways. Trent's big issue is over-throwing downfield. He gets too much power into his passes when he's not on the run and gunned at least 4 passes way too high over WRs heads who were WIDE OPEN. If Trent doesn't clean this up he's going to find Brzczeck hot on his heels this week. In terms of the QB that operated the offense as a whole "the best" it's Trent right now. He can do all that is needed. Drops killed quite a few of his would-be drives.

4. That said, the drops were not frequent but they were at key moments, 3rd down and/or longer yardage. Even the more sure-handed kids like Gratton who had a very nice McKinney pass right in his hands that would've been about a 50 yard TD and he just dropped it. Sammy was mad at himself for making such an error, it was one of Trent's nice longer passes and it was right on the money. Pierson had multiple drops all on 3rd downs - his drops killed at least 2 drives. Might open the door for Hagfors, Richards, or Craig to grab his spot as the rotating in #2 TE if he doesn't clean that up.

5. The growing concern that could be the largest is our backup O-line situation. Schmaing has not had the best fall camp, LaRowe opposite of him at #2 tackle was humiliated tonight. The #2 Oline had 3 false starts in a row, on all of the same trick where the D-line shouts "move" and shifts. The interior #2 line was not opening many holes either. McCauley Todd is out right now, and I think so was Weyer - when Todd gets back I know they've given him looks at guard but I think he needs a shot at tackle right now to see if he can be more consistent than LaRowe.

6. Notice where all of the catches came? TEs and slot WRs for the most part. Our cornerbacks are playing at a different level right now. Sean Murray had a near pick, Nate Harris had a few great break-ups. Coogan had multiple tackles that prevented WRs from getting 1st downs. Dennard had a few hard hits too. Maybe one of the best raw talented WRs on the team, Sean Haynes, didn't get a single throw tonight, he was blanketed by Murray and Harris. Meanwhile Kemp had just 2 catches but Goodwin was all over him.

7. Dan Moore, Peter Nguyen, and Caleb Walden all impressed me tonight with their running. Counts had a nice run where he popped a guy real hard. However they're still sending Dan outside a lot. A few option pitches that went that way turned into either a loss or short gains. I just don't get why they want to send him so far outside. His TD run was (I think) inbetween the RT and RG as was his run right before that that set up the 1st and goal.

8. Jacob Coogan made his presence known, a breakup and probably the biggest hit of the night.

9. Stephen Shaw has the makings of a great punter. Feedback from a former punter (Willie) was that there's good promise in him - great power but still needing to work on his mechanics. He can kick sky-high punts and had one that was downed on the 1 which was expertly tipped by Stephen Rominger to keep it out of the endzone.

10. Chris Lider did pretty well, had one bad shank on a very poor snap. Greenberg kicked a PAT and was good on an equally bad snap. This week it'll be interesting to see if Greenberg gets a chance to make a run and push Lider.

11. So which young gun WR stepped up? Walcott, Burke, Naccarato, Maguire, Stallone, or Dellaserra? Well... uh... not them - but Kevin Berland. Berland is showing more and more the type of hustle and drive that mirrors a certain former walk-on, Marc Mariani. His hands aren't as good as Marc's and I don't think he's as fast, but Kevin keeps making plays. I think he had 3 catches tonight and a very nice grab for a TD.

12. Notice how rangy JP Kanongata'a has become? Playing good defense to the sideline in chasing down WRs and RBs, making a pick, and blitzing well. He's not a wide-eyed youngster anymore, he plays like a veteran and compliments Tripp, Stu, and Coyle well.

13. Great end to the scrimmage, the team comes over and sings Up With Montana to the crowd just as if they finished a game. I love the big-game attitude that Mick has instilled in these young men. They're playing real hard and fighting to get better every day.

14. As I predicted, the interior run defense without Bienemann on the 1st string D-line wasn't the greatest. Rehm is doing ok but he's getting shoved around a lot in there. There were some pretty big holes for the RBs and QBs at times.

-----------------------

In terms of which side "won" I'd give a slight tip to the offense. I believe they scored 2 TDs and went 2/3 on fieldgoals. The defense forced 2 turnovers, but gave up more yards than I'd seen so far.

This next week is going to get intense. We've got a few position battles heating up and a grueling week of 2-a-day night time practices on Tues/Thurs and I think Sat as well.

2) It wasn't "right into JP's hands". JP made an incredible side-ways diving INT.

But yes, the WR made the easy route-run straight into the endzone, while Adam read that the WR should have made an out cut (which is a harder route because the WR would then have had to fight his way into the endzone if he was thrown to).

Adam CLEARLY is the best passer on the team. Best zip/spiral and accuracy. Period.

10) Greenberg has a weak leg, in practice and at the scrimmage. In practice he was yelled at by Gregorak, "Kick it like you mean it" after a kick. Coyle was audibly unpleased as well on that practice kick. I don't see him lasting with the Griz. Lider is the guy. Too bad Berg left for Tech. Shaw is an incredible punter.

3) McKinney needs a lot of work on his balls, they flutter/wobble and are off-target all too often.

6) Coogan is a major hitter. On the sidelines the players yelled supportivlely, "Coogan hit somebody", shortley thereafter he had the hit of the scrimmage on a laid out 6"6 TE Richards. He is living up to his hardest hitter reputation.

 

[englishgriz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=lPB7_oblek8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[IntuitiveGriz]

Brint wrote "McKinney can do all that is needed" as the starting QB for this team. Except pass the ball. McKinney is another Gerald Kemp...... both of whom are not FCS caliber QBs, and should be playing other positions. Just because McKinney is a good runner, does not make him a QB. It took us 4 years of hope and prayer with Kemp to finally realize that he was NOT a QB. It will be the same with McKinney. He will start, flounder, make drive-killing mistakes, over-throw wide-open receivers, and interceptions.

I hope that Rosey will figure this out early, and replace him with Brez. Most people do not understand the cerebral element to playing QB. it is much more important than just throwing and running. It involves reading the defense, going through your receiver progressions, audibling out of plays that will not work against that particular defense, etc. DD had it. Ochs had it. Edwards had it. Berquist had it. Will McKinney ever have it? Highly doubtful. But Brez will have it. You could see it last night. He was light years ahead of the other three in reading the defense, and he is very young. He will get better and better with playing time. He has some of the same qualities as DD and JJ. Same Size, smart, quick, can run with the ball. Can avoid the sack.

Couple of comments regarding previous posts. First, it was obvious watching Brez that he has some speed. For those of you who think that everything you read on Rivals or Scout is the gospel, it is not. Brez is plenty fast enough to be an effective runner in the offense the Griz are using. Yes, he needs to bulk-up a bit, as all freshmen do. JJ was not much different in build as a freshman. He will hit the weights and get stronger. We shouldn't worry about him taking a pounding, if our O-line does its job. He should not have to run the ball much if our running game with our backs is working. It is supposedly our strength. You don't want your QB carrying the ball all that much, risking injury.

Bottom line, of the four QBs I watched last night, McKinney should be playing another position, Smithwick hyphenated is never going to start here. He is Nate Montana with half the ability. Gustafson will be a good one, and Brez has the potential to be as good as Jordy. Just my opinion.

Please keep in mind that McKinney has the luxury of playing with the starters. The other three had to play with subs. Big difference. How would Brez and Gus look playing with the first team "O"?

:agree:

 

[cclarkblues]

3) McKinney needs a lot of work on his balls, they flutter/wobble and are off-target all too often.

So do I but I don't talk about them in public.

 

[IntuitiveGriz]

I just watched the scrimmage videos... & the first thing I noticed between the QBs is their composure before the snap. Watch & compare the likes of Breez & McKinney vs the others. Breez & McKinney clearly have a lot more confidence & act like they belong there.

IMO, Breez will learn the playbook & be our next QB. For only having five practices & a scrimmage under his belt with the Griz he is doing UNREAL.

ABSOLUTELY!!!

 

[IntuitiveGriz]

Thanks again to all you crackpot Griz fans for the scrimmage comments. We are getting around to football without a rape word. Sounds so good makes me want to start drinking again and again.

Old Growler came alive after hiding out in AZ over winter and he did a fine job on his critique. Our punter is great and getting better. Adam B was coach Harbaughs pick to walk on so that is a no brainer and I hope he is as good as we think he will be. We need a good QB! Looks like we have one or two.

Cat pee fans are begining to worry.....*

Adam is our best (passer, smarts) QB on the team.

 

[hm.grwn.grizfan]

I don't know how #91 had no Pac 12 offers. His size, speed, and overall athleticism stuck out on AG1's video. I cannot believe that kid is just out of high-school. No way he doesn't see the field this year IMO.

 

[NewPapaBear]

I don't know how #91 had no Pac 12 offers. His size, speed, and overall athleticism stuck out on AG1's video. I cannot believe that kid is just out of high-school. No way he doesn't see the field this year IMO.

He actually had offers from WSU & OSU ( to my knowledge) the NW schools miss far to often in my opinion on the area talent that often go elsewhere and produce! Holmes is just the latest example. Glad he's here. I like the future for Montana Football. Our Freshmen class is exciting to watch!

Maul 'Em

 

[hm.grwn.grizfan]

I don't know how #91 had no Pac 12 offers. His size, speed, and overall athleticism stuck out on AG1's video. I cannot believe that kid is just out of high-school. No way he doesn't see the field this year IMO.

He actually had offers from WSU & OSU ( to my knowledge) the NW schools miss far to often in my opinion on the area talent that often go elsewhere and produce! Holmes is just the latest example. Glad he's here. I like the future for Montana Football. Our Freshmen class is exciting to watch!

Maul 'Em

Im glad they missed him. He will wreak havok on opposing team's QB's this year!

 

[BWahlberg]

I'm hoping this week we can see how Holmes does against Poole and Kistler much like we will hopefully see Brzczeck against Murray/Harris/Tully/Hermey

 

[mtgrizrule]

It is good to hear, the consensus is Brez for starting qb, amongst those who were there. I do think McKinney is capable as well. Both are young. I expect a lot of inconsistent qb the 1st 4 to 6 weeks, no matter who starts.

 

[Maynardsgametrail]

I'm hoping this week we can see how Holmes does against Poole and Kistler much like we will hopefully see Brzczeck against Murray/Harris/Tully/Hermey

TH did go up against Poole, and blew by him twice. On the last one Poole threw his arms up out of frustration. :thumb:

 

[Hammer]

It is good to hear, the consensus is Brez for starting qb, amongst those who were there. I do think McKinney is capable as well. Both are young. I expect a lot of inconsistent qb the 1st 4 to 6 weeks, no matter who starts.

I'm all for it. I posted that he wouldn't start the season as starting QB. Looks like I might be wrong. I'm all for doing whatever it takes to make the Griz better!!