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West Florida joining the UAC in 2026 - just a brief stopover on the way to the FBS?

HelenaHandBasket said:
But to get compliant for one level you would exceed compliance at the previous level. So you end up with a school not able to compete at either level.
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Uno mas:

CDAGRIZ

Post in thread 'West Florida joining the UAC in 2026 - just a brief stopover on the way to the FBS?'

HelenaHandBasket said:
The list of compliance items encompasses a wide arrange of items. From GPA to necessary core classes, to how many credits must be completed within certain timeframes, to numerous items within the athletic department, to numerous items within the institution. You want to dwell on a handful of things, but there are literally so many items throughout the entire institution that you would have to be a NCAA compliance officer, or trained in NCAA compliance. Is the system overcomplicated, yeah, probably so, but the answer isn't as simple as you suggest.
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Hence the, "for instance" in my...
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HelenaHandBasket said:
You think D1 schools and D2 schools have the same requirement criteria seems to be the issue.
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No, I don't think they do. I think you are fundamentally misunderstanding the issue of "floor" and "ceiling" that CDA brought up and that I have tried to ask about.

I believe you are making a claim that is just inaccurate when you say that "to get compliant for one level you would exceed compliance at the previous level. So you end up with a school not able to compete at either level."

Which aspect of compliance are you referring to, specifically?
 
HelenaHandBasket said:
It is exactly how they want it. They want it difficult because then a school has to be dedicated to making the move and put the resources necessary into athletics.
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They would already be putting that money in to meet the compliance standards. I am not complaining about there being standards that must be met. I am asking why a team can be compliant for the regular season and not for the playoffs. It is senseless.
 
HelenaHandBasket said:
It is exactly how they want it. They want it difficult because then a school has to be dedicated to making the move and put the resources necessary into athletics.
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Which is exactly what they can do at their current level and remain playoff eligible at that level until they move up and become immediately playoff eligible at that level. That would prevent formal transitional periods where we have non-complaint programs competing in seasons of play at the next level.

Think of an Ivy (and to save us time, I'm not saying all schools have to have Ivy money to move up, so let's not go there). Princeton is more than FCS eligible. They have the academic standards, number of sports, facilities, money for scholarships, blah blah blah necessary for FBS membership. If they decided tomorrow to give FBS level athletic aid, they would be "FBS eligible" overnight. They are still eligible for the FCS playoffs.
 
ElrodGrizzly said:
No, I don't think they do. I think you are fundamentally misunderstanding the issue of "floor" and "ceiling" that CDA brought up and that I have tried to ask about.

I believe you are making a claim that is just inaccurate when you say that "to get compliant for one level you would exceed compliance at the previous level. So you end up with a school not able to compete at either level."

Which aspect of compliance are you referring to, specifically?
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Well, the easiest one is number of scholarships.
 
ElrodGrizzly said:
They would already be putting that money in to meet the compliance standards. I am not complaining about there being standards that must be met. I am asking why a team can be compliant for the regular season and not for the playoffs. It is senseless.
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Because they don't have to be compliant for the regular season.
 
CDAGRIZ said:
Which is exactly what they can do at their current level and remain playoff eligible at that level until they move up and become immediately playoff eligible at that level. That would prevent formal transitional periods where we have non-complaint programs competing in seasons of play at the next level.
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So expect them to delay ramping up there athletic program to be eligible at the D2 level and then still "transition" athletics after moving up. With the $$ involved, why would a school do this?
 
HelenaHandBasket said:
Well, the easiest one is number of scholarships.
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Okay, please explain that one to me, then, if it is the easiest. A Division 2 team is limited to 35 scholarships. If they move up to the FCS, how are they non-compliant with anything? There is no FCS minimum. There are FCS teams that don't even give out any scholarships.

What is the compliance issue that you are pointing to here that would make them ineligible for either league?
 
ElrodGrizzly said:
Okay, please explain that one to me, then, if it is the easiest. A Division 2 team is limited to 35 scholarships. If they move up to the FCS, how are they non-compliant with anything? There is no FCS minimum. There are FCS teams that don't even give out any scholarships.

What is the compliance issue that you are pointing to here that would make them ineligible for either league?
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They would be noncompliant at the D2 level as they increase for FCS. I didn't state that all requirements work both ways. Also, you know why FCS has no minimum? It is so D1 basketball schools can offer football with low expenses.
 
HelenaHandBasket said:
So expect them to delay ramping up there athletic program to be eligible at the D2 level and then still "transition" athletics after moving up. With the $$ involved, why would a school do this?
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Huh? No, that's the exact opposite of what I'm saying. Don't delay. Get everything ready. The only thing "needed" when you move up is more scholarships (for which you've already planned).

Again, assuming another clarification is needed, I'm talking about what ought to be and maybe you're thinking about all of this within the parameters of the current rules.
 
HelenaHandBasket said:
They would be noncompliant at the D2 level as they increase for FCS. I didn't state that all requirements work both ways. Also, you know why FCS has no minimum? It is so D1 basketball schools can offer football with low expenses.
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I am not sure if you are intentionally refusing to engage with what I am actually saying. I am not saying they need to increase over time to move up. I am saying if they are in D2, they should meet D2 compliance. If they are compliant with FCS rules and are playing in the FCS, they should be playoff eligible.

My question has directly been about why a team should not be eligible for the playoffs if they move up. You have stated that they "are not compliant." You are now saying scholarships is the easiest one to call out, but that makes no sense.

In the current situation we are discussing, the D2 team could move up to the FCS with 35 scholarships, yet still not be playoff eligible even though they would be complaint with FCS scholarship limits. That does a much better job of making my point that there is no logical reason to deny playoff eligibility.
 
ElrodGrizzly said:
I am not sure if you are intentionally refusing to engage with what I am actually saying. I am not saying they need to increase over time to move up. I am saying if they are in D2, they should meet D2 compliance. If they are compliant with FCS rules and are playing in the FCS, they should be playoff eligible.

My question has directly been about why a team should not be eligible for the playoffs if they move up. You have stated that they "are not compliant." You are now saying scholarships is the easiest one to call out, but that makes no sense.

In the current situation we are discussing, the D2 team could move up to the FCS with 35 scholarships, yet still not be playoff eligible even though they would be complaint with FCS scholarship limits. That does a much better job of making my point that there is no logical reason to deny playoff eligibility.
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Because scholarship limits are only one of dozens and dozens of items that must be met. My mention of scholarships was in reference to being eligible at D2 when ramping up for D1, where once again, scholarship levels aren't the only item. Do you realize why schools that decide to move up do so even with the transition period rules? Because they realize that the process takes that amount of time and ramping up to meet requirements covers multiple different areas that make it near impossible to delay items in certain areas with be detrimental to the entire process. It has become apparent you and CDA want any easy answer, but there isn't any one single easy answer. How many schools that have transitioned have you heard complain about the ban yet did it anyway?
 
CDAGRIZ said:
Huh? No, that's the exact opposite of what I'm saying. Don't delay. Get everything ready. The only thing "needed" when you move up is more scholarships (for which you've already planned).

Again, assuming another clarification is needed, I'm talking about what ought to be and maybe you're thinking about all of this within the parameters of the current rules.
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You can't get everything ready and remain compliant at the D2 level. Scholarship numbers aren't the only factor.
 
HelenaHandBasket said:
Because scholarship limits are only one of dozens and dozens of items that must be met. My mention of scholarships was in reference to being eligible at D2 when ramping up for D1, where once again, scholarship levels aren't the only item. Do you realize why schools that decide to move up do so even with the transition period rules? Because they realize that the process takes that amount of time and ramping up to meet requirements covers multiple different areas that make it near impossible to delay items in certain areas with be detrimental to the entire process. It has become apparent you and CDA want any easy answer, but there isn't any one single easy answer. How many schools that have transitioned have you heard complain about the ban yet did it anyway?
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Right, there are enough advantages to outweigh the costs for those schools. I am aware of that.

My point wasn't about being eligible at D2 while ramping up and violating compliance with D2. My point, consistently, has been to question why a team that IS COMPLIANT IN THE FCS would not be eligible for the FCS playoffs. You stated that there was a time period where they would not be "in compliance." I asked you for an example, and you gave scholarships. That clearly didn't make sense at all, so you are now saying there are "dozens and dozens of items."

Please, specifically, give me an example of an aspect of compliance that would be missing for a team to not be eligible for the playoffs while still being eligible for the FCS regular season. I don't believe there are any. You are the one making the claim that they can't play in the playoffs because of compliance issues. I am asking you to explain that claim that you are making, with an example.
 
HelenaHandBasket said:
You can't get everything ready and remain compliant at the D2 level. Scholarship numbers aren't the only factor.
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Please list the other ones. I've shown that scholarship numbers are not a factor at all because there is no requirement to ramp up scholarships prior to joining the FCS. 35 is already more than enough.
 
HelenaHandBasket said:
You can't get everything ready and remain compliant at the D2 level. Scholarship numbers aren't the only factor.
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Name one more thing. Just one thing required for DI membership that would make a program non-compliant in DII. Is there one? I'll post it again:

CDAGRIZ

Post in thread 'West Florida joining the UAC in 2026 - just a brief stopover on the way to the FBS?'

HelenaHandBasket said:
The list of compliance items encompasses a wide arrange of items. From GPA to necessary core classes, to how many credits must be completed within certain timeframes, to numerous items within the athletic department, to numerous items within the institution. You want to dwell on a handful of things, but there are literally so many items throughout the entire institution that you would have to be a NCAA compliance officer, or trained in NCAA compliance. Is the system overcomplicated, yeah, probably so, but the answer isn't as simple as you suggest.
Click to expand...
Hence the, "for instance" in my...
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