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If Cats don't win in Frisco, should Vigen be moved on?

M

mthoopsfan

Well-known member
This is a question for Poorgriz.

Griz will have been more successful in past 2 seasons than Cats, unless Cats win in Frisco. See below.

In last 2 seasons:

1. Griz are 23-6 and 4-2 playoffs, with loss in Frisco

2. If Cats lose to SD in semis, Cats will be 22-5 and 2-2 playoffs, with no trip to Frisco

3. If Cats beat SD and get to Frisco but lose, Cats will end up 23-5 and 3-2. [same wins as UM, 1 less loss, 1 less playoff win - advantage Griz]

4. If Cats win in Frisco, Cats will be 24-4, and 4-1 in playoffs. [Advantage Cats, by 1 more win, 2 less losses, same playoff wins, 1 less playoff loss, and national championship]
 
If Vigen fails to win the NC, the answer is obvious.

You sign him to multi year deals and keep him for a couple decades
 
PTGrizzly said:
Why are you trying to take away entertainment!
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HelenaHandBasket said:
Elrod, don't encourage him.
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Lol, hey, I think I deserve some real applause for the personal growth I have shown in ignoring trolls and not cluttering the board with an argument. But I will still toss out some likes for good counter-trolling here and there. ;)

I actually think the underlying point is a good one, and it speaks to the fanbases as much as anything. After last year, every Cat fan I know was keeping the faith and saying positive things about their program and where it was headed. We have a bad year, and Griz fans start to eat their own. Seems like pretty apples-to-apples comparisons of teams having up and down years. As much as people want to say that we could go out and suddenly get coaches that take us over the top, I'm not sure that I would want to take the job at Montana if I was a good coach.

Down years happen, but the sky isn't falling for us any more than it was for the Cats.
 
mthoopsfan said:
This is a question for Poorgriz.

Griz will have been more successful in past 2 seasons than Cats, unless Cats win in Frisco. See below.

In last 2 seasons:

1. Griz are 23-6 and 4-2 playoffs, with loss in Frisco

2. If Cats lose to SD in semis, Cats will be 22-5 and 2-2 playoffs, with no trip to Frisco

3. If Cats beat SD and get to Frisco but lose, Cats will end up 23-5 and 3-2. [same wins as UM, 1 less loss, 1 less playoff win - advantage Griz]

4. If Cats win in Frisco, Cats will be 24-4, and 4-1 in playoffs. [Advantage Cats, by 1 more win, 2 less losses, same playoff wins, 1 less playoff loss, and national championship]
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No, I don't think so. Vigen has proven everything he needs to, to me at least. What this team has been able to do, despite the season ending injuries we've seen to several all All American players, is impressive. I just base everything off of what I see with my own two eyes, rather than what the coaches tell me, or say to the media, etc. Vigen clearly has this team at a level where they compete with the best teams in the country. Are they over the hump, and better than the DSUs? Not sure. Hopefully if the Cats can take care of business and win the next two games, we'll find out. It's also clear to anyone that understands the game, the griz are not playing at the same level as the best teams in the country. Still can't get my head around that. How they made it to Frisco last year, and this year imploded the way they did. The griz struggled against some average teams, but beat by some average, or poor teams, and got spanked by every top level team they faced. After the griz got beat by UCD by 16 points at home, the writing was on the wall. Everyone that knows anything about football could pretty much predict how things were going to play out. Come back home and beat PSU, go to Bozeman and get destroyed by the Cats, come back home and beat whatever crappy fringe playoff team, and then once again travel to a DSU to get destroyed. That's exactly how it played out, and most Bobcat fans, and actually a good chunk of griz fans knew that was exactly what was going to happen. QB debacle, and head scratching non use of your best weapons aside, the main problem is how inadequate the griz lines are, on both sides of the ball, against the elite teams in the FCS.
 
Mthoops loves those round of 24 patsy home playoff wins! If Bobby can just get one of those the season is a success for him. Chance to go to the game by himself and critique more important things like blond female officials' calls.
 
Mousegriz said:
Mthoops loves those round of 24 patsy home playoff wins! If Bobby can just get one of those the season is a success for him. Chance to go to the game by himself and critique more important things like blond female officials' calls.
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If you had to estimate, what percentage of your posts in, say, the last five years have been in direct response to, and/or have referenced hoops? Is it greater than 50%?
 
poorgriz said:
No, I don't think so. Vigen has proven everything he needs to, to me at least. What this team has been able to do, despite the season ending injuries we've seen to several all All American players, is impressive. I just base everything off of what I see with my own two eyes, rather than what the coaches tell me, or say to the media, etc. Vigen clearly has this team at a level where they compete with the best teams in the country. Are they over the hump, and better than the DSUs? Not sure. Hopefully if the Cats can take care of business and win the next two games, we'll find out. It's also clear to anyone that understands the game, the griz are not playing at the same level as the best teams in the country. Still can't get my head around that. How they made it to Frisco last year, and this year imploded the way they did. The griz struggled against some average teams, but beat by some average, or poor teams, and got spanked by every top level team they faced. After the griz got beat by UCD by 16 points at home, the writing was on the wall. Everyone that knows anything about football could pretty much predict how things were going to play out. Come back home and beat PSU, go to Bozeman and get destroyed by the Cats, come back home and beat whatever crappy fringe playoff team, and then once again travel to a DSU to get destroyed. That's exactly how it played out, and most Bobcat fans, and actually a good chunk of griz fans knew that was exactly what was going to happen. QB debacle, and head scratching non use of your best weapons aside, the main problem is how inadequate the griz lines are, on both sides of the ball, against the elite teams in the FCS.
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You know nothing about football, so nothing you say means anything on this board. As I said, if Cats don't win in Frisco, the Griz success in the past 2 years will have been be better than the Cats. You and a few other Cat fans have more excuses than anyone I have ever been exposed to. That's very funny.

I just don't understand how the Cats could have collapsed to a 8-4 team with a home playoff loss like the Cats did last season. Just can't get my head around that. Really unbelievable going from good success to not even being able to win a playoff game, as well as losing at home.

Griz lost by 3, in OT, by 16 Davis (who is in the round of 8), 23 (to no.1 seed), and 17 to SDSU. Yes, disappointing season and below expectations. While the Griz got clobbered and weren't in the game very long, they ended up keeping SDSU slightly below its scoring average, scoring 5 points more than what SDSU was giving up, getting more total offense than SDSU was giving up, allowing SDSU 43 more than its average of TO, holding SDSU to a bit under its average per play, picking up a bit more than SDSU was averaging per plays. Nothing to celebrate about, but an indication that UM didn't get run quite as much as it felt like. Only USD came closer to SDSU than UM did, and, of course, NDSU beat them. SDSU had 399 of TO Griz. Of D1 games, SDSU had 388, 388, 333, and 329 against OK St, UNI (41-3 game), USD and NDSU.

UM's 2 picks essentially cost 14 points. And SDSU clobbered the Griz on 3d downs, including a few longer 3d downs. SDSU is obviously very good and clearly better than the Griz.
 
Mousegriz said:
Mthoops loves those round of 24 patsy home playoff wins! If Bobby can just get one of those the season is a success for him. Chance to go to the game by himself and critique more important things like blond female officials' calls.
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Actually, I like the 3 home playoff wins and trip to Frisco last season. Do you think Cats will get 3 playoffs wins this season? And win in Frisco? I don't.

I find it interesting that you, someone who never played any varsity in college in any sport, has this hard-on for Bobby and this incredibly high standard for Bobby. You seem to be a guy with a chip on his shoulder and someone who is very jealous of the success of others.
 
mthoopsfan said:
You know nothing about football, so nothing you say means anything on this board. As I said, if Cats don't win in Frisco, the Griz success in the past 2 years will have been be better than the Cats. You and a few other Cat fans have more excuses than anyone I have ever been exposed to. That's very funny.

I just don't understand how the Cats could have collapsed to a 8-4 team with a home playoff loss like the Cats did last season. Just can't get my head around that. Really unbelievable going from good success to not even being able to win a playoff game, as well as losing at home.

Griz lost by 3, in OT, by 16 Davis (who is in the round of 8), 23 (to no.1 seed), and 17 to SDSU. Yes, disappointing season and below expectations. While the Griz got clobbered and weren't in the game very long, they ended up keeping SDSU slightly below its scoring average, scoring 5 points more than what SDSU was giving up, getting more total offense than SDSU was giving up, allowing SDSU 43 more than its average of TO, holding SDSU to a bit under its average per play, picking up a bit more than SDSU was averaging per plays. Nothing to celebrate about, but an indication that UM didn't get run quite as much as it felt like. Only USD came closer to SDSU than UM did, and, of course, NDSU beat them. SDSU had 399 of TO Griz. Of D1 games, SDSU had 388, 388, 333, and 329 against OK St, UNI (41-3 game), USD and NDSU.

UM's 2 picks essentially cost 14 points. And SDSU clobbered the Griz on 3d downs, including a few longer 3d downs. SDSU is obviously very good and clearly better than the Griz.
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Don't blame SDSU for BH being incompetent with QBs and giving them two TDs.
 
mthoopsfan said:
You know nothing about football, so nothing you say means anything on this board. As I said, if Cats don't win in Frisco, the Griz success in the past 2 years will have been be better than the Cats. You and a few other Cat fans have more excuses than anyone I have ever been exposed to. That's very funny.

I just don't understand how the Cats could have collapsed to a 8-4 team with a home playoff loss like the Cats did last season. Just can't get my head around that. Really unbelievable going from good success to not even being able to win a playoff game, as well as losing at home.

Griz lost by 3, in OT, by 16 Davis (who is in the round of 8), 23 (to no.1 seed), and 17 to SDSU. Yes, disappointing season and below expectations. While the Griz got clobbered and weren't in the game very long, they ended up keeping SDSU slightly below its scoring average, scoring 5 points more than what SDSU was giving up, getting more total offense than SDSU was giving up, allowing SDSU 43 more than its average of TO, holding SDSU to a bit under its average per play, picking up a bit more than SDSU was averaging per plays. Nothing to celebrate about, but an indication that UM didn't get run quite as much as it felt like. Only USD came closer to SDSU than UM did, and, of course, NDSU beat them. SDSU had 399 of TO Griz. Of D1 games, SDSU had 388, 388, 333, and 329 against OK St, UNI (41-3 game), USD and NDSU.

UM's 2 picks essentially cost 14 points. And SDSU clobbered the Griz on 3d downs, including a few longer 3d downs. SDSU is obviously very good and clearly better than the Griz.
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The last 15 points were scored on backups…
 
The performance analysis is valid. One thing that hasn't been mentioned in comparing Vigen and the cats to Hauck and the Griz is the status of each program when the new coach took over.
Vigen inherited a program on the rise thanks to Choate much like Hauck 1.0 did.
However, Hauck 2.0 inherited a pile of stitt that needed a complete overhaul. Enter in the transfer portal and nil and I can understand the Griz struggles.
Can Vigen sustain the cats once Mellott graduates? I think there will be a fall back.
 
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