All too obvious way to win the conference

[3-7-77]

Because Missoula in the winter sucks and playing in front of a nursing home crowd is almost as bad

 

[BigSkyBreakdown]

There is no additional "funding needed" from the university to develop a great BB program. The money would be NIL money, from donations. 200K - 400K is all that would be needed. Hell, Hoops could handle that with his Daddy War Bucks cash chest.

Don't see this happening with the current leadership of the U or the athletic department. The MBB and WBB aren't gonna get 400k for NIL when it's hard enough to get donors for locker rooms needing to be finished. Being Gonzaga isn't gonna happen. They had success pre NIL, without supporting 60 plus more athletes (no fball) and the countless other expenditures fball creates... Gonzaga invested in MBB and now WBB.

 

[Mousegriz]

Times have changed if locker rooms are more important than players. What kind of locker rooms did Bird Magic Russell, Chamberlain Jordan and the rest of the 50 best players in the history of basketball have when they were in college?

 

[thirdandlong]

Times have changed if locker rooms are more important than players. What kind of locker rooms did Bird Magic Russell, Chamberlain Jordan and the rest of the 50 best players in the history of basketball have when they were in college?

You are 100% correct. The posters trying to use the advent of the portal as a reason why the "Gonzaga phenomenon" can not happen again are missing the point. The portal is exactly the reason it CAN BE duplicated again! During the days when Gonzaga built their BB program, there was no legal way to pay players, so a no-name school like Gonzaga had to find another avenue to entice top recruits to come to sunny Spokane, and play in that cracker box arena. Posters keep using the "they don't have a football team, so they can go all-in on basketball" as the reason they could succeed in building their program.

So, how did they go all-in? Did they built a shiny new arena to attract talent? No. Did they start violating NCAA rules by paying players under the table? Who knows, but they never were caught doing so. They built it over the years by bragging that they would play any team in America, on that team's home court. They filled their non-conference schedule with nationally ranked teams like North Carolina, Kansas, Duke, Michigan State, etc. They lost those early games, but they got lots of national TV exposure, and it allowed them to entice some of the nation's better players to sign with them, because they would be competing against the best teams in America, with lots of national TV exposure. Several years later, they were good enough to be ranked in the Top 10.

People who lack vision will always find reasons why things "can't be done", which opens the door for people with vision to go out and accomplish it.

 

[BigSkyBreakdown]

You are 100% correct. The posters trying to use the advent of the portal as a reason why the "Gonzaga phenomenon" can not happen again are missing the point. The portal is exactly the reason it CAN BE duplicated again! During the days when Gonzaga built their BB program, there was no legal way to pay players, so a no-name school like Gonzaga had to find another avenue to entice top recruits to come to sunny Spokane, and play in that cracker box arena. Posters keep using the "they don't have a football team, so they can go all-in on basketball" as the reason they could succeed in building their program.

So, how did they go all-in? Did they built a shiny new arena to attract talent? No. Did they start violating NCAA rules by paying players under the table? Who knows, but they never were caught doing so. They built it over the years by bragging that they would play any team in America, on that team's home court. They filled their non-conference schedule with nationally ranked teams like North Carolina, Kansas, Duke, Michigan State, etc. They lost those early games, but they got lots of national TV exposure, and it allowed them to entice some of the nation's better players to sign with them, because they would be competing against the best teams in America, with lots of national TV exposure. Several years later, they were good enough to be ranked in the Top 10.

People who lack vision will always find reasons why things "can't be done", which opens the door for people with vision to go out and accomplish it

We don't disagree with you that people with vision can make things happen. We just don't think it's as easy as what everyone says when they say Gonzaga did it why can't we.

Lots of things to consider when or if that move ever takes place. AD and school president have to also have that vision (Good luck with that) Then WHO are the fat cat donors who are going to donate NIL money? If those fat cat donors won't donate to facilities to complete renovations where are they going to dig up the money to collect a substantial amount of money for yr to yr portal transfers?


The idea sounds simple...raise some NIL money to give to a portal kid. But then you have to raise that money....yearly and that we believe just isn't happening at UM.

 

[UncleRico]

Because Missoula in the winter sucks and playing in front of a nursing home crowd is almost as bad

I was watching a few minutes of Florida Atlantic and Memphis the other day and the color guy said something about the FAU students packing it in despite it being Spring Break. Then he said well when you live at the Spring Break location it doesn't matter. There is no doubt we lose players in both football and basketball because of the weather. I like this team. They just seem like a real solid group of kids that like playing with each other. It has been fun to watch them

 

[thirdandlong]

We don't disagree with you that people with vision can make things happen. We just don't think it's as easy as what everyone says when they say Gonzaga did it why can't we.

Lots of things to consider when or if that move ever takes place. AD and school president have to also have that vision (Good luck with that) Then WHO are the fat cat donors who are going to donate NIL money? If those fat cat donors won't donate to facilities to complete renovations where are they going to dig up the money to collect a substantial amount of money for yr to yr portal transfers?


The idea sounds simple...raise some NIL money to give to a portal kid. But then you have to raise that money....yearly and that we believe just isn't happening at UM.

You make good points, and I agree that raising that level of NIL money every year would be a challenge. But I also believe that there are several well-healed alum who love UM athletics, and who could easily afford to donate enough money to fund this initiative. I do believe that convincing donors to donate to make our team dominant on the court, versus raising money for lockers would be much easier. It is a myth that facilities make a huge difference in recruiting, especially in the era of NIL money. If facilities guaranteed recruiting success, we would win the football recruiting battle every year.

Anyway, I have stated my beliefs on this issue, and will leave it at that.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

You are 100% correct. The posters trying to use the advent of the portal as a reason why the "Gonzaga phenomenon" can not happen again are missing the point. The portal is exactly the reason it CAN BE duplicated again! During the days when Gonzaga built their BB program, there was no legal way to pay players, so a no-name school like Gonzaga had to find another avenue to entice top recruits to come to sunny Spokane, and play in that cracker box arena. Posters keep using the "they don't have a football team, so they can go all-in on basketball" as the reason they could succeed in building their program.

So, how did they go all-in? Did they built a shiny new arena to attract talent? No. Did they start violating NCAA rules by paying players under the table? Who knows, but they never were caught doing so. They built it over the years by bragging that they would play any team in America, on that team's home court. They filled their non-conference schedule with nationally ranked teams like North Carolina, Kansas, Duke, Michigan State, etc. They lost those early games, but they got lots of national TV exposure, and it allowed them to entice some of the nation's better players to sign with them, because they would be competing against the best teams in America, with lots of national TV exposure. Several years later, they were good enough to be ranked in the Top 10.

People who lack vision will always find reasons why things "can't be done", which opens the door for people with vision to go out and accomplish it.

My point is that the process has changed so Gonzaga wouldn't be the model that you could replicate. I also don't think the portal makes it easier, and in fact, would make it more difficult, since even if you spent NIL one year, if a kid is successful, a bigger school with more money will show up on the doorstep. The revolving door is the issue.

 

[3-7-77]

"Did they start violating NCAA rules by paying players under the table? Who knows, but they never were caught doing so."

Maybe. Maybe they(and others)WERE caught, BUT money, like people, talked in a receptive ear or two. Problem went away. Pay to play. No accusations, just probability based on human nature.

 

[BigSkyBreakdown]

You make good points, and I agree that raising that level of NIL money every year would be a challenge. But I also believe that there are several well-healed alum who love UM athletics, and who could easily afford to donate enough money to fund this initiative. I do believe that convincing donors to donate to make our team dominant on the court, versus raising money for lockers would be much easier. It is a myth that facilities make a huge difference in recruiting, especially in the era of NIL money. If facilities guaranteed recruiting success, we would win the football recruiting battle every year.

Anyway, I have stated my beliefs on this issue, and will leave it at that.

We agree that facilities are not the make or break for building a solid program. The point about facilities (the lockerooms) was made because that's already in the works and is struggling to get momentum to raise funds. Isn't there also a practice facilities for outdoor sports also being raised?

We also believe you are right and that there are plenty of alum that would donate or could donate, but who is to say they aren't already and are tapped out and tired of being the only ones who believe in that vision...which get us back to the leadership of the dept. Vision takes leadership. If the coaches are more driven than the AD and President it's hard to build.

 

[3-7-77]

We?

 

[CDAGRIZ]

Third, if you can't honestly see how basketball recruiting and finances have changed in the past 20 years, then there is no reason to continue the discussion.

HHB, I probably agree with over 90% of your posts, but I'm curious how you think recruiting and finances have changed in the last 20-30 years (outside of normal evolution and inflation). I think even back then, the DI recruits would go to the school whose boosters gave them the best promises/deals (which often included money). Put another way, I don't think Larry Johnson and Stacey Augmon just really wanted to go to UNLV of all places, but they did. I don't think Bo Kimble and Hank Gathers dreamed of going to U$C growing up in Philly, but they signed there. Now, the boosters can do it within the rules and without a bag man.

I struggle to find a flaw in the OP's reasoning, but I agree with others that the money aspect of it all probably remains the roadblock. Same shit as always. But, if we were able to say we can give you $XXk/year and you will be an early contributor on a team in a weak conference that will likely win the auto bid if any of Tom, Dick, and Harry also sign, I think we could maybe land some higher profile dudes. I think that's what the OP was getting at, but that was just my interpretation.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

My point is that the process has changed so Gonzaga wouldn't be the model that you could replicate. I also don't think the portal makes it easier, and in fact, would make it more difficult, since even if you spent NIL one year, if a kid is successful, a bigger school with more money will show up on the doorstep. The revolving door is the issue.

HHB, I didn't see this one before I posted my last one. I agree the revolving door presents new and different issues. I'll just echo what I've said regarding FB recruiting: If we can get a guy who produces for a year or two and then goes on his way to a power program, we still get those years of production . . . in the BSC.

I'm not saying we could get a Chet Holmgren-type or anything, but I'll use him as an example. GU 1000% knew he would be a one-and-done, but I don't think they believe they wasted their time by only getting his production for a year.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

HHB, I didn't see this one before I posted my last one. I agree the revolving door presents new and different issues. I'll just echo what I've said regarding FB recruiting: If we can get a guy who produces for a year or two and then goes on his way to a power program, we still get those years of production . . . in the BSC.

I'm not saying we could get a Chet Holmgren-type or anything, but I'll use him as an example. GU 1000% knew he would be a one-and-done, but I don't think they believe they wasted their time by only getting his production for a year.

I agree, you may get a year here and a year there, but achieving the continuity to accomplish it year in and year out with the revolving door of the current portal is something that Gonzaga didn't have to deal with during their climb.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

I agree, you may get a year here and a year there, but achieving the continuity to accomplish it year in and year out with the revolving door of the current portal is something that Gonzaga didn't have to deal with during their climb.

I partially agree. GU didn't have to deal with losing guys to the portal, but they definitely had their fair share of guys transfer out and eat a year pre-portal. Sometimes multi-year guys who contributed. Also, they had many major contributors who transferred in pre-portal. Dickau, Batista, Goss, McClellan off the top of my head, I'm certain there were many more, but the names aren't coming to me. I guess the point being is the revolving door comes back in as well, and GU dealt with both sides of it during their ascent. The only material difference in my eyes between then and now is they don't have to sit a year, so the volume goes up.

I think I'd try to look for opportunities in the portal more than I would worry about the inevitability of players exiting, but I am not a DI BB coach.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

We don't disagree with you that people with vision can make things happen. We just don't think it's as easy as what everyone says when they say Gonzaga did it why can't we.

Lots of things to consider when or if that move ever takes place. AD and school president have to also have that vision (Good luck with that) Then WHO are the fat cat donors who are going to donate NIL money? If those fat cat donors won't donate to facilities to complete renovations where are they going to dig up the money to collect a substantial amount of money for yr to yr portal transfers?


The idea sounds simple...raise some NIL money to give to a portal kid. But then you have to raise that money....yearly and that we believe just isn't happening at UM.

I think what gets lost in translation sometimes with GU comparisons is that I don't think anyone believes UM would become the number one overall seed in the tournament by 2028 if we simply gave out better NIL deals. I believe the OP just mentioned an idea that could lead to us winning the BSC more consistently. In my mind, it's not about "replicating" GU (likely not going to happen for many reasons stated), it's more about attempting to trend in that direction and finding ways to do so. Just my opinion.

 

[thirdandlong]

I think what gets lost in translation sometimes with GU comparisons is that I don't think anyone believes UM would become the number one overall seed in the tournament by 2028 if we simply gave out better NIL deals. I believe the OP just mentioned an idea that could lead to us winning the BSC more consistently. In my mind, it's not about "replicating" GU (likely not going to happen for many reasons stated), it's more about attempting to trend in that direction and finding ways to do so. Just my opinion.

I have no illusions that we could be a Top 10 national team if my idea was implemented. But I do think we could easily win the conference, and perhaps actually make the Sweet 16. If we could accomplish this, we probably could schedule some more lucrative non-conference games which would include getting some TV money.

The process to come close to what Gonzaga has achieved would be a long one, as it was for the Zags. But I think we could once again fill the field house seats, increase the revenue going into the coffers of the athletic department, and provide some real excitement for our UM fan base that we haven't experienced for our BB program for many years. BB has been an afterthought to our football success. But it doesn't have to be.

 

[marceagfan5]

NIL is actually going to really hurt Gonzaga in the coming years...
They are a small school without a football team. NIL is really hurting the small schools and Gonzaga is going to lose a lot of ground moving forward because of it...

 

[grizzlyjournal]

No other Big Sky school has the broad comparable fan and (I presume) $$$ support across all team sports anywhere close to Montana. Assuming the NIL is here to stay in some form, I would think UM, in particular, would have that support (numbers and $) as an advantage.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

NIL is actually going to really hurt Gonzaga in the coming years...
They are a small school without a football team. NIL is really hurting the small schools and Gonzaga is going to lose a lot of ground moving forward because of it...

You share the same opinion as some of my family on the topic, and you all could be correct. The counter is that the GU program is already established to the point where players want to go there for the name and recognition. 25 straight tournament appearances with 13 sweet 16s, 6 elite 8s, and two NC games kind of solidify them as not being a "small school" when it comes to basketball.

I agree that NIL could possibly hurt a small up and coming program in some ways, but I wouldn't put GU in that category. They are already there.