Player Discussion D-Line

[MTGRZ]

I'm a big fan of Favoroso. He balled out last year.

 

[griz5700]

Note that when Hauck first arrived at UM after Glenn, he he told the starters that they would have to earn their starting spots again. Totally pissed them off. I think all of them did earn their spots. They still hate him. Wonder if some of that could be going on again. I assume Hauck sees this as motivation for starters to improve and back ups to improve as they push the starters, or even get early reps ahead of them.

Correct. They still hate him. Talked with Saenz about this probably 10 years ago at a house party. Couldn’t believe the animosity. We disagreed but had fun.

 

[PlayerRep]

Saenz wasn't even a starter then. Think it was Varona and Horgan. With Cahill in the background. Saenz was a pupster.

 

[Merkleman]

Biggest concern with this team (imo) is the lack of pass rushers at DE. That plus a thin secondary makes things pretty difficult.

Not my biggest concern, but certainly a "top 3" concern. I THINK we will have two great edge rushers in Favoroso and Rodriguez but they need to show that. In the recent stretch of Schye, Kidder, Wags, and Holmes there was always that one guy that teams had to prepare for and those of us that watched practice would see stand out. So far... dunno...

Corner play/depth my top concern. O-line experience/depth in the "top 3"

Corner is a concern for sure, but not having that reliable productive rusher at DE will make that area all the more vulnerable. Especially with the style Hauck (usually) plays on D.

Now if you had a wagemann and a holmes on the edge...CB instantly becomes a depth and recruiting problem, not a 2018 problem.

Not sure I see Favoroso or Rodriguez filling that role, but ya never know. That would be a huge help to this D.

Still think the best option is to put Sims at DE. let him man handle the Tackle, set the edge, and then get creative with bringing pressure from LBs. Play him like a 3-4 DE and let the LBs play around him.

Not sure?
After battling through lower leg injuries the first month of the season, his family being wiped out by a Cat 5 hurricane the morning of the UW game and not knowing if they were dead or alive for 3 weeks, he got healthy, bounced back and not only led the team in sacks and TFl over the final 6 games I believe he led the entire conference over the final 6 games.

This spring he was moved to 3rd string inside DE before a single practice this spring. No reason and no explanation.



Here's your team leaders over the final 6 games of last season.

Banks- 59 tackles, 9 TFL, 4 sacks
Buss- 49 Tackles, 6 TFL, 2.5 sacks
Strahm- 70 Tackles, 8.5 TFL, 1.5 sacks
Schye- 29 Tackles, 7 TFL, 4.5 Sacks
Simms- 20Tackles, 5 TFL , 3.5 Sacks
Favoroso- 34 Tackles, 13 TFL, 6 sacks

 

[Diesel]

Thanks Merkleman, I have alot of respect for all the student athletes and the struggles they endure. As a older guy, sometimes I forget how difficult it was for myself as a young man to react positively to be given crap sandwiches. Many of the athletes struggle with difficulties most people will ever know about. Hopefully Chris can deal with the crap sandwich he has been given and respond positively. He is a great asset to the program, he has the physical gifts to excel. Stats back up his abilities. I have found success in life is how you don’t let your environment dictate how you live and get good at accepting crap sandwiches.

 

[cowboywayne]

With the three-man front the team has shown in the scrimmages and spring game, I don’t think we will see these traditional DE edge rushers. These will be OLB hybrids that aren’t quite D-lineman and aren’t quite linebackers. These guys will drill with both groups, they are going to split time with the D-Line and linebacker corps in practices.

Looking at what is assumed to be the starting two DEs you have Sims and Tilleman sitting in the 3 or 4 gap taking on double teams and creating opportunities for the linebackers. IMO, Rodriguez, Rosling, Maua, and Deming are all 20-25 pounds away from an ideal weight and thus strength. So, we have Sims/Tilleman and then...

...everyone else.

We have a bubble for 2s/3s and the biggest factor in anyone of them standing out is summer development — size and strength. Basically, who shows up at fall camp ready to rock and roll at 265.

From watching earlier practices and scrimmages it looked like Nelson, Nagler and Harris were the OLB hybrids that could be the edge rusher everyone wants to see. I don’t think it was until the spring game that I saw Favoroso moved from taking rotations with the DEs to this OLB position. Before that move for Favoroso, I would have put him in that same bubble with the other DEs.

My point is, the DE position is different from last year. I agree with bigdog that Kidder shouldn’t have moved to DE under Semore but he would have kicked ass as a DE in this scheme.

 

[griz5700]

Biggest concern with this team (imo) is the lack of pass rushers at DE. That plus a thin secondary makes things pretty difficult.

Not my biggest concern, but certainly a "top 3" concern. I THINK we will have two great edge rushers in Favoroso and Rodriguez but they need to show that. In the recent stretch of Schye, Kidder, Wags, and Holmes there was always that one guy that teams had to prepare for and those of us that watched practice would see stand out. So far... dunno...

Corner play/depth my top concern. O-line experience/depth in the "top 3"

Corner is a concern for sure, but not having that reliable productive rusher at DE will make that area all the more vulnerable. Especially with the style Hauck (usually) plays on D.

Now if you had a wagemann and a holmes on the edge...CB instantly becomes a depth and recruiting problem, not a 2018 problem.

Not sure I see Favoroso or Rodriguez filling that role, but ya never know. That would be a huge help to this D.

Still think the best option is to put Sims at DE. let him man handle the Tackle, set the edge, and then get creative with bringing pressure from LBs. Play him like a 3-4 DE and let the LBs play around him.

Not sure?
After battling through lower leg injuries the first month of the season, his family being wiped out by a Cat 5 hurricane the morning of the UW game and not knowing if they were dead or alive for 3 weeks, he got healthy, bounced back and not only led the team in sacks and TFl over the final 6 games I believe he led the entire conference over the final 6 games.

This spring he was moved to 3rd string inside DE before a single practice this spring. No reason and no explanation.



Here's your team leaders over the final 6 games of last season.

Banks- 59 tackles, 9 TFL, 4 sacks
Buss- 49 Tackles, 6 TFL, 2.5 sacks
Strahm- 70 Tackles, 8.5 TFL, 1.5 sacks
Schye- 29 Tackles, 7 TFL, 4.5 Sacks
Simms- 20Tackles, 5 TFL , 3.5 Sacks
Favoroso- 34 Tackles, 13 TFL, 6 sacks

Maybe he has an attitude problem?

 

[AZGrizFan]

Note that when Hauck first arrived at UM after Glenn, he he told the starters that they would have to earn their starting spots again. Totally pissed them off. I think all of them did earn their spots. They still hate him. Wonder if some of that could be going on again. I assume Hauck sees this as motivation for starters to improve and back ups to improve as they push the starters, or even get early reps ahead of them.

Correct. They still hate him. Talked with Saenz about this probably 10 years ago at a house party. Couldn’t believe the animosity. We disagreed but had fun.

Man. Those fellas gotta learn to let things go.

 

[BWahlberg]

This spring he was moved to 3rd string inside DE before a single practice this spring. No reason and no explanation.

As has been posted here by others, this is a typical move that many of us observed in 2003 and at other points through Hauck's prior tenure. He wants guys who were starters from the year before to "prove" their worth to the team by really testing them, which usually means burying them in depth. Hell I think he even did that to Trumaine Johnson in 2009. The kids that battled back many times would win their jobs back a week or two before the regular season... or even a few games into the regular season, many times were made better players because of it. And yes... most of them never really forgave/liked Bobby and/or his OC or DC because of it regardless of how the season went because of it.

Bobby and his staff do this to test guys. Some respond well, others don't. I'm personally not the greatest fan of it, but it seems to have worked really well in the past for him so the results are hard to argue against.

 

[sdk.catfish]

Bobby and his staff do this to test guys. Some respond well, others don't. I'm personally not the greatest fan of it, but it seems to have worked really well in the past for him so the results are hard to argue against.

Hmmm........... are Bobby and the staff taking this concept to other positions like ........... Can't go there - this thread is about the D-line.

 

[MTGRZ]

Bobby and his staff do this to test guys. Some respond well, others don't. I'm personally not the greatest fan of it, but it seems to have worked really well in the past for him so the results are hard to argue against.

Hmmm........... are Bobby and the staff taking this concept to other positions like ........... Can't go there - this thread is about the D-line.

:lol: Yep, I think you are correct! But thanks for trying to stay on thread topic!

 

[BWahlberg]

Bobby and his staff do this to test guys. Some respond well, others don't. I'm personally not the greatest fan of it, but it seems to have worked really well in the past for him so the results are hard to argue against.

Hmmm........... are Bobby and the staff taking this concept to other positions like ........... Can't go there - this thread is about the D-line.

Starts with a Q?

ends with "uarterback"?

 

[grzz]

Bobby and his staff do this to test guys. Some respond well, others don't. I'm personally not the greatest fan of it, but it seems to have worked really well in the past for him so the results are hard to argue against.

Hmmm........... are Bobby and the staff taking this concept to other positions like ........... Can't go there - this thread is about the D-line.

Starts with a Q?

ends with "uarterback"?

Bobby would never do that...especially at a position like QB...for an entire season...

Back on track. I get the idea behind it, but I honestly have wondered if this leads to players tightening up in the biggest situations and being so afraid of failing that they don't succeed. I think that happened at times during Hauck's last run here.

 

[Sam A. Blitz]

Bobby and his staff do this to test guys. Some respond well, others don't. I'm personally not the greatest fan of it, but it seems to have worked really well in the past for him so the results are hard to argue against.

Hmmm........... are Bobby and the staff taking this concept to other positions like ........... Can't go there - this thread is about the D-line.

Starts with a Q?

ends with "uarterback"?

Bobby would never do that...especially at a position like QB...for an entire season...

Back on track. I get the idea behind it, but I honestly have wondered if this leads to players tightening up in the biggest situations and being so afraid of failing that they don't succeed. I think that happened at times during Hauck's last run here.

Lot's of coaches do this and it doesn't exclude QB. They aren't burying them in the depth chart during the season. It's getting them to compete, improve, and prove they are a starter before the season. The first couple games at most. It is effective.

If a player is afraid of screwing up to the point they are tensing up, they are probably not worthy of PT anyways. Good football players don't have that mentality. If they do, they are either freshman that aren't ready to contribute or aren't going to be able to be competitive football players.

 

[go96griz]

I like the idea of competition pushing players and it's one thing not to name the starter and stay in the mix with 1s and 2s, but to drop a prior year starter to 3rd on the depth chart for no apparent reason seems a little overly dramatic. Some will overcome this adversity and be even more hungry and better for it, but these are still young men and this seems almost counterproductive since it could lead to talented, frustrated players quitting. The only good reason to drop a starter to 3rd would be to address an attitude issue.

I was a bit disappointed with Favoroso's start to last season, but the injury and hurricane explanation sure explains a lot. Chris finished the year exceptionally well.

 

[PlayerRep]

I like the idea of competition pushing players and it's one thing not to name the starter and stay in the mix with 1s and 2s, but to drop a prior year starter to 3rd on the depth chart for no apparent reason seems a little overly dramatic. Some will overcome this adversity and be even more hungry and better for it, but these are still young men and this seems almost counterproductive since it could lead to talented, frustrated players quitting. The only good reason to drop a starter to 3rd would be to address an attitude issue.

I was a bit disappointed with Favoroso's start to last season, but the injury and hurricane explanation sure explains a lot. Chris finished the year exceptionally well.

Agreed. On all counts.

 

[griz5700]

I like the idea of competition pushing players and it's one thing not to name the starter and stay in the mix with 1s and 2s, but to drop a prior year starter to 3rd on the depth chart for no apparent reason seems a little overly dramatic. Some will overcome this adversity and be even more hungry and better for it, but these are still young men and this seems almost counterproductive since it could lead to talented, frustrated players quitting. The only good reason to drop a starter to 3rd would be to address an attitude issue.

I was a bit disappointed with Favoroso's start to last season, but the injury and hurricane explanation sure explains a lot. Chris finished the year exceptionally well.

Disagree.

If talented players don't want to compete, they should look elsewhere.

 

[Diesel]

One big change this year is Barry Sacks. He has D-line practicing as one unit. They should be playing better this year as that unit plays as one.

If the four man front is the main formation it seems reasonable Sims will see some inside snaps with the DE depth (Rodriguez, Favoroso, Sirmon, Rosling, Deming, Nelson, Maua, Alford).

Would also think Longoria plays D-line this year. He would be good in a three man front.

 

[tgreseth]

One big change this year is Barry Sacks. He has D-line practicing as one unit. They should be playing better this year as that unit plays as one.

If the four man front is the main formation it seems reasonable Sims will see some inside snaps with the DE depth (Rodriguez, Favoroso, Sirmon, Rosling, Deming, Nelson, Maua, Alford).

Would also think Longoria plays D-line this year. He would be good in a three man front.

Pretty sure Longoria was moved to O-line

 

[AZGrizFan]

One big change this year is Barry Sacks. He has D-line practicing as one unit. They should be playing better this year as that unit plays as one.

If the four man front is the main formation it seems reasonable Sims will see some inside snaps with the DE depth (Rodriguez, Favoroso, Sirmon, Rosling, Deming, Nelson, Maua, Alford).

Would also think Longoria plays D-line this year. He would be good in a three man front.

Pretty sure Longoria was moved to O-line

Wasn’t that a spring move just for depth purposes? Are we thinking that was a permanent move? Because he sure seems to be the heir apparent to Shaw...