Missoula Rises is giving Griz Nation a chance to submit some questions

[bgbigdog]

I’d like to know what the way forward looks like.

What are the participants & their constituencies going to do the help fix the problems that are identified. And this isn’t simply one groups’ problem - everyone better be ok with owning it & being part of the solution.

Ps. We all know you have a minion constituency Brint.

 

[GGNez]

I’d like to know what the way forward looks like.

What are the participants & their constituencies going to do the help fix the problems that are identified. And this isn’t simply one groups’ problem - everyone better be ok with owning it & being part of the solution.

Ps. We all know you have a minion constituency Brint.

Excellent question.

Curious, though, who do you think BW's minions are?

 

[MrTitleist]

I’d like to know what the way forward looks like.

What are the participants & their constituencies going to do the help fix the problems that are identified. And this isn’t simply one groups’ problem - everyone better be ok with owning it & being part of the solution.

Ps. We all know you have a minion constituency Brint.

Excellent question.

Curious, though, who do you think BW's minions are?

Growler's a big fan.

 

[garizzalies]

I’d like to know what the way forward looks like.

What are the participants & their constituencies going to do the help fix the problems that are identified. And this isn’t simply one groups’ problem - everyone better be ok with owning it & being part of the solution.

Ps. We all know you have a minion constituency Brint.

What problems?

 

[argh!]

Question from a female Grizzly Football fan and eGriz poster:
I had many issues in the past and present with the same man who bullied Ms. Davey for her anti-Hauck petition. Included were countless sexist comments, name-calling, personal attacks and extreme crudeness. I think he is cruel, manipulative and malicious. I spoke out in favor of hiring Bobby Hauck and believe that it is unfair to blame him for some of the specifics in Ms. Davey’s petition. I support Lisa’s right to her opinion, despite the fact that it is different than mine.
How do the anti-Hauck people feel about the fact that a man sent me Facebook messages after I voiced my support for Hauck, accusing me of victimizing Lisa? He accused me of being an ally of the man who bullied Lisa, of bullying her personally. He threatened to call my employer and jeopardize my job. He threatened to turn Missoula Rises against me. The only thing he knew about me at that point was that I volunteer as a victims’ advocate and that I support Bobby Hauck. What are your thoughts about that?

isn't the name of the guy who treated you like that on egiz mike schlossinger (i think). i notice you use davey's name, but not his, in your questions. i suggest using his, as well. otherwise it seems like he's being protected from exposure while she isn't, for i-don't-know-what reasons.

 

[BWahlberg]

I would like to know what national affiliations Missoula Rises has and what is the source of their funding? I see there is a link to a national site but no link identifying who or what? Are they a non-profit and if so do they accept donations? Not seeing anything on Secretary of State website.

You can find them on Facebook, Glendive.

Thanks but doesn't address the question. Closed group so doesn't say much. Obviously, a very political organization from their website. Just wondering about source funding.

From their site:

Missoula Rises is a community-led, local group committed to the protection of the rights of our community members. Our group serves Missoula, the Bitterroot Valley and surrounding areas. We seek to effectuate local change with the intent that our local work will eventually have an impact on a larger scale. We are non-partisan and inclusive. Diversity is key. We seek input from all people and understand the success of our message depends on the diversity of voices. Missoula Rises will further the protection of human rights through: education, dialogue, vigilance, accountability and activism.

My guess (because I don't fully know) is that this group really isn't funded formally and organized/recognized as a company. I see it's more of a collective group of people that use mostly facebook to organize and plan events. I think most events and things they do is all volunteer. Again, that's a guess.

 

[BWahlberg]

I’d like to know what the way forward looks like.

What are the participants & their constituencies going to do the help fix the problems that are identified. And this isn’t simply one groups’ problem - everyone better be ok with owning it & being part of the solution.

Ps. We all know you have a minion constituency Brint.

What problems?

From MR:

sexism, sexual assault, entitlement, cyber-bullying and perceptions surrounding those issues within UM Athletics

 

[GGNez]

Question from a female Grizzly Football fan and eGriz poster:
I had many issues in the past and present with the same man who bullied Ms. Davey for her anti-Hauck petition. Included were countless sexist comments, name-calling, personal attacks and extreme crudeness. I think he is cruel, manipulative and malicious. I spoke out in favor of hiring Bobby Hauck and believe that it is unfair to blame him for some of the specifics in Ms. Davey’s petition. I support Lisa’s right to her opinion, despite the fact that it is different than mine.
How do the anti-Hauck people feel about the fact that a man sent me Facebook messages after I voiced my support for Hauck, accusing me of victimizing Lisa? He accused me of being an ally of the man who bullied Lisa, of bullying her personally. He threatened to call my employer and jeopardize my job. He threatened to turn Missoula Rises against me. The only thing he knew about me at that point was that I volunteer as a victims’ advocate and that I support Bobby Hauck. What are your thoughts about that?

isn't the name of the guy who treated you like that on egiz mike schlossinger (i think). i notice you use davey's name, but not his, in your questions. i suggest using his, as well. otherwise it seems like he's being protected from exposure while she isn't, for i-don't-know-what reasons.

I don't know for sure if you are being sarcastic, Argh, but am responding as if you are serious. Lisa has chosen (bravely, IMO) to participate in this discussion panel, alongside the coach she rallied against. The other guy is an internet troll hiding behind various personas - not worthy of a mention by name. While many people may feel that the anti-Hauck petition by Davey and friends was unfair or misguided, I definitely don't see her as a person with malicious intent. The bully is malicious intent personified. He should have stripped any doubt from people's minds when he publicly attacked the character of Bobby Hauck on another forum. He's just a symptom.

 

[GGNez]

I’d like to know what the way forward looks like.

What are the participants & their constituencies going to do the help fix the problems that are identified. And this isn’t simply one groups’ problem - everyone better be ok with owning it & being part of the solution.

Ps. We all know you have a minion constituency Brint.

Excellent question.

Curious, though, who do you think BW's minions are?

Growler's a big fan.

:lol:

 

[PlayerRep]

I see that the topic is now expanding:

" to explore the topics of sexism, sexual assault, entitlement, cyber-bullying and perceptions surrounding those issues within UM Athletics"

My questions:

1. For Lisa Davey, why did you put Coach Hauck on the cover of the Krakauer book, when Hauck is not even mentioned in the book?

2. For Lisa Davey, what's your basis for associating Coach Hauck with sexual assault at UM. Please read this Guest Column, which refutes everything related to that topic in your petition, before answering.

http://missoulian.com/opinion/columnists/no-basis-for-blaming-hauck/article_1b9547e0-65c4-57db-ba03-da1c349fac23.html

3. Who, besides AlphaGriz, may have been cyber-bullying and where?

4. What do sexism and entitlement have to do with Griz athletics, and what is your source?

5. Are you aware of any UM athletes, besides Donaldson, who have been "convicted" in a UM sexual harassment/assault proceeding and kicked out of school? I'm not.

6. What's the view of Lisa Davey or others on this quote from a Missoula federal judge regarding a particular UM sexual harassment/assault proceeding involving a student? This quote indicates blatant unfairness by UM in that proceeding, which was run by the at-that-time Dean of UM.

""Indeed, from a normative perspective, the process applied to Plaintiff Doe and the behavior of University officials in investigation and prosecuting this matter offends the Court's sense of fundamental fairness and appears to fall short of the minimal moral obligation of any tribunal to respect the rights and dignity of the accused." Judge Christiansen, Order dated May 10, 2012.

 

[Ringneck]

I’d like to know what the way forward looks like.

What are the participants & their constituencies going to do the help fix the problems that are identified. And this isn’t simply one groups’ problem - everyone better be ok with owning it & being part of the solution.

This is a great question. Other than "raising awareness," how are they responding to the perceived problem?

 

[garizzalies]

I’d like to know what the way forward looks like.

What are the participants & their constituencies going to do the help fix the problems that are identified. And this isn’t simply one groups’ problem - everyone better be ok with owning it & being part of the solution.

Ps. We all know you have a minion constituency Brint.

What problems?

From MR:

sexism, sexual assault, entitlement, cyber-bullying and perceptions surrounding those issues within UM Athletics

No I’m asking about actual problems, not their subjective perceptions and complaints

 

[sdk.catfish]

I would like to chime in my thanks to Brint for being willing to take this on. I would like to see a question something like the following but I could use a little help framing it. While I don't feel this way, possibly because I'm retired and have no job to lose, it is clear to me (from the the 24 page thread above all threads) that it is real and an issue that has the potential to derail some positives that could come from this seminar. It has something to the posts from CDA, PR, Ringneck and others yesterday. So roughly:

With the increasingly public nature of alleged sexual harassment incidents that have have been brought forth in the political and entertainment sectors, we observe men that are not perpetrators moving away from normal interactions with females, especially within the business place, because of the fear of unwarranted litigation. We see females as well with hesitation to interact with males both because of a fear of sexual harassment and their fear of being perceived as trouble makers. With fear comes the flight or fight phenomenon which is not conducive to resolving differences. How does Missoula Rises propose to dampen the fear factor on both sides so we can move forward in a unified and progressive fashion in resolving harassment issues the Missoula community and the UM campus.

I welcome any edits that can retain the concept but wouldn't be off-putting like mine can tend to be.

 

[hilinegrizfan]

To Lisa Davey: I'd like to ask -

What actual evidence did she have that Hauck "encouraged a culture of rape"?

At what point did she feel it was appropriate to publicly defame a man she has never met by saying "no woman is safe with bobby hauck on campus". What was her rationale for making such a damning accusation?

At what point do we stop blaming the actions of an individual on someone else? Why is it that you blame a coach for the actions of a college student, off the field, let alone when he isn't even the coach there anymore? By using the logic that Bobby Hauck is responsible for a woman being assaulted by a player he recruited to play football, should any non-athlete who gets in any trouble have their employer be responsible for the crime by "recruiting" them to work there?

What exactly should Bobby have done differently to discipline his players? Did he not take appropriate steps to discipline his players when they got into trouble? Isn't it true that many were either kicked off the team or did not play?

my 2 cents:

I think to publicly insist that someone is a danger to women with absolutely no proof or reasoning should be illegal. I don't think she had any idea of how bobby coached his teams and tried to instill greatness in his players on and off the field. If bobby personally assaulted you or someone you know, than by all means, speak up. Otherwise, a person shouldn't just be able to publicly defame someone like that.

 

[Ringneck]

I see that the topic is now expanding:

" to explore the topics of sexism, sexual assault, entitlement, cyber-bullying and perceptions surrounding those issues within UM Athletics"

My questions:

1. For Lisa Davey, why did you put Coach Hauck on the cover of the Krakauer book, when Hauck is not even mentioned in the book?

2. For Lisa Davey, what's your basis for associating Coach Hauck with sexual assault at UM. Please read this Guest Column, which refutes everything related to that topic in your petition, before answering.

http://missoulian.com/opinion/columnists/no-basis-for-blaming-hauck/article_1b9547e0-65c4-57db-ba03-da1c349fac23.html

3. Who, besides AlphaGriz, may have been cyber-bullying and where?

4. What do sexism and entitlement have to do with Griz athletics, and what is your source?

5. Are you aware of any UM athletes, besides Donaldson, who have been "convicted" in a UM sexual harassment/assault proceeding and kicked out of school? I'm not.

6. What's the view of Lisa Davey or others on this quote from a Missoula federal judge regarding a particular UM sexual harassment/assault proceeding involving a student? This quote indicates blatant unfairness by UM in that proceeding, which was run by the at-that-time Dean of UM.

""Indeed, from a normative perspective, the process applied to Plaintiff Doe and the behavior of University officials in investigation and prosecuting this matter offends the Court's sense of fundamental fairness and appears to fall short of the minimal moral obligation of any tribunal to respect the rights and dignity of the accused." Judge Christiansen, Order dated May 10, 2012.

PR, I know you earn your living asking these sorts of things, but these are excellent questions. I love them because they challenge the very premises that this whole ordeal has been founded upon. In order for an argument to be sound, the premises must be true, the conclusion must be true, and the conclusion must logically follow from those premises. If they have the guts to respond to your questions, I think it will expose the numerous flaws in their argument.

 

[Glendivegriz]

I would like to know what national affiliations Missoula Rises has and what is the source of their funding? I see there is a link to a national site but no link identifying who or what? Are they a non-profit and if so do they accept donations? Not seeing anything on Secretary of State website.

You can find them on Facebook, Glendive.

Thanks but doesn't address the question. Closed group so doesn't say much. Obviously, a very political organization from their website. Just wondering about source funding.

From their site:

Missoula Rises is a community-led, local group committed to the protection of the rights of our community members. Our group serves Missoula, the Bitterroot Valley and surrounding areas. We seek to effectuate local change with the intent that our local work will eventually have an impact on a larger scale. We are non-partisan and inclusive. Diversity is key. We seek input from all people and understand the success of our message depends on the diversity of voices. Missoula Rises will further the protection of human rights through: education, dialogue, vigilance, accountability and activism.

My guess (because I don't fully know) is that this group really isn't funded formally and organized/recognized as a company. I see it's more of a collective group of people that use mostly facebook to organize and plan events. I think most events and things they do is all volunteer. Again, that's a guess.

Huh, they are selling stuff on their website. Money has to be accounted for I would think. If you find out, I am curious.

 

[griz71]

Thanks for doing this BW, it may not sound like it but some of us around here appreciate you having the cajones to sit up front

:thumb:

I'm looking forward to being part of this conversation. I love this town and I love the UM and want the best for it and it's athletics. This is my community and I'd rather be a part of these talks than seeing it drive a bigger wedge between all of us.

:clap: :thumb:

 

[argh!]

Question from a female Grizzly Football fan and eGriz poster:
I had many issues in the past and present with the same man who bullied Ms. Davey for her anti-Hauck petition. Included were countless sexist comments, name-calling, personal attacks and extreme crudeness. I think he is cruel, manipulative and malicious. I spoke out in favor of hiring Bobby Hauck and believe that it is unfair to blame him for some of the specifics in Ms. Davey’s petition. I support Lisa’s right to her opinion, despite the fact that it is different than mine.
How do the anti-Hauck people feel about the fact that a man sent me Facebook messages after I voiced my support for Hauck, accusing me of victimizing Lisa? He accused me of being an ally of the man who bullied Lisa, of bullying her personally. He threatened to call my employer and jeopardize my job. He threatened to turn Missoula Rises against me. The only thing he knew about me at that point was that I volunteer as a victims’ advocate and that I support Bobby Hauck. What are your thoughts about that?

isn't the name of the guy who treated you like that on egiz mike schlossinger (i think). i notice you use davey's name, but not his, in your questions. i suggest using his, as well. otherwise it seems like he's being protected from exposure while she isn't, for i-don't-know-what reasons.

I don't know for sure if you are being sarcastic, Argh, but am responding as if you are serious. Lisa has chosen (bravely, IMO) to participate in this discussion panel, alongside the coach she rallied against. The other guy is an internet troll hiding behind various personas - not worthy of a mention by name. While many people may feel that the anti-Hauck petition by Davey and friends was unfair or misguided, I definitely don't see her as a person with malicious intent. The bully is malicious intent personified. He should have stripped any doubt from people's minds when he publicly attacked the character of Bobby Hauck on another forum. He's just a symptom.

i am being serious. do you really think this guy wants that kind of publicity(bqm)

 

[sdk.catfish]

I get all the Lisa Davey questions, I really do, however they appear to me at least, to be picking a fight in a public forum which won't go over that well. Hauck, Haslem and Bodner will not take this approach I would advise us to be very careful with it as well. I would hope there is a way to soften the edge a little to still make the point that she played fast and loose with the facts while still maintaining the high road. I know some of you want vindication but this is not the time or place. I think Griz fans will be perceived in a better light if those type of questions are toned down a little. And since there will be many opinions, I doubt whether Brint will have the luxury of hauling out a list of 10 questions specifically pointed at the Davey petition or her subsequent actions. Just my opinion but I would try to get the most salient points incorporated into one pointed, but non-threatening question, that has a chance of being answered.

 

[GGNez]

Question from a female Grizzly Football fan and eGriz poster:
I had many issues in the past and present with the same man who bullied Ms. Davey for her anti-Hauck petition. Included were countless sexist comments, name-calling, personal attacks and extreme crudeness. I think he is cruel, manipulative and malicious. I spoke out in favor of hiring Bobby Hauck and believe that it is unfair to blame him for some of the specifics in Ms. Davey’s petition. I support Lisa’s right to her opinion, despite the fact that it is different than mine.
How do the anti-Hauck people feel about the fact that a man sent me Facebook messages after I voiced my support for Hauck, accusing me of victimizing Lisa? He accused me of being an ally of the man who bullied Lisa, of bullying her personally. He threatened to call my employer and jeopardize my job. He threatened to turn Missoula Rises against me. The only thing he knew about me at that point was that I volunteer as a victims’ advocate and that I support Bobby Hauck. What are your thoughts about that?

isn't the name of the guy who treated you like that on egiz mike schlossinger (i think). i notice you use davey's name, but not his, in your questions. i suggest using his, as well. otherwise it seems like he's being protected from exposure while she isn't, for i-don't-know-what reasons.

I don't know for sure if you are being sarcastic, Argh, but am responding as if you are serious. Lisa has chosen (bravely, IMO) to participate in this discussion panel, alongside the coach she rallied against. The other guy is an internet troll hiding behind various personas - not worthy of a mention by name. While many people may feel that the anti-Hauck petition by Davey and friends was unfair or misguided, I definitely don't see her as a person with malicious intent. The bully is malicious intent personified. He should have stripped any doubt from people's minds when he publicly attacked the character of Bobby Hauck on another forum. He's just a symptom.

i am being serious. do you really think this guy wants that kind of publicity(bqm)

He likes attention a lot but, your point is valid. He certainly turned on Haslam and Hauck when they called him out for his BS.