Good, Bad, Ugly - Spring Scrimmage

[horribilisfan8184]

I'm not that concerned about the team. The offense played vanilla with limited play options the defense has seen dozens of times. The defense was able to practice old and new sets. Had this been a real game, offensive adjustments would have been made, but I suspect weren't so as not to get things down on film. The offense coaches seemed to be more focused on evaluating individual execution, not so much end of play results.

 

[Paytonlives]

Here is the problem with Spring scrimmages. There is only three outcomes and none are good.

Outcome #1 Defense shines.
Chicken Littles "Oh crap our offense Sucks"

Outcome #2 Offense shines.
Chicken Littles "Oh crap our defense Sucks"

Outcome #3 A close game
Chicken Littles "Oh crap we have problems all over the field"

 

[HookedonGriz]

Here is the problem with Spring scrimmages. There is only three outcomes and none are good.

Outcome #1 Defense shines.
Chicken Littles "Oh crap our offense Sucks"

Outcome #2 Offense shines.
Chicken Littles "Oh crap our defense Sucks"

Outcome #3 A close game
Chicken Littles "Oh crap we have problems all over the field"

Winner winner chicken little dinner

 

[Grizzly96]

Here is the problem with Spring scrimmages. There is only three outcomes and none are good.

Outcome #1 Defense shines.
Chicken Littles "Oh crap our offense Sucks"

Outcome #2 Offense shines.
Chicken Littles "Oh crap our defense Sucks"

Outcome #3 A close game
Chicken Littles "Oh crap we have problems all over the field"

BRILLIANT!!!!

 

[retiredfan]

Thx everyone for your observations. For us out of the state it helps us get somewhat of a perspective as to where we are headed. Some of it sounds good, some not so good. The run game worries me the most.

 

[grizfan406]

I just don't understand how people can't get the idea that we're getting better recruits, but that doesn't mean they can come in as freshmen or sophomores and beat out four seniors.

eGriz is literally all or nothing these days. If they aren't good enough to start as freshmen, why have them, right?

Except my argument is that the four seniors are average BSC lineman at best. Many would hope that some of these young kids would show enough to crack the lineup. You also have a kid that is on his 5th position and yet is ahead of young kids that were recruited for the position and actually have more practice reps. Young kids beat out older kids all the time, and sooner or later these young lineman are going to have to show something on the field.

I was thinking the same thing about Ralston. For someone who is on his 5th position and has never played O-line before to be the starter says something... Does it say that "Wow he is super athletic and will make a great )-lineman... Does it say, "Can't believe he is beating out the current players on the roster whether they are young or not... Does it say, "Wow the 0-line has not been a priority the last 4+ years if a player who has never been on the O-line and is on his 5th position change is the starter? Maybe a combination or all three.

 

[Sam A. Blitz]

Here is the problem with Spring scrimmages. There is only three outcomes and none are good.

Outcome #1 Defense shines.
Chicken Littles "Oh crap our offense Sucks"

Outcome #2 Offense shines.
Chicken Littles "Oh crap our defense Sucks"

Outcome #3 A close game
Chicken Littles "Oh crap we have problems all over the field"

Truth.

 

[Sam A. Blitz]

Feel like I'm beating a dead horse, but expecting a Freshman to be a strong contributor is unrealistic for 90% of players. It takes a special and quickly developing player to just be starter level as a sophomore.

OL probably requires more time for development than any other position. I don't care how heralded they were in HS or how big and athletic they are. Implying that they aren't good enough because they can't beat out an upperclassman is unfair and naive. It doesn't matter how good/poor the starter is...

Give these kids a couple years to develop before you call them out.

Now back to your Cheetos...

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

Feel like I'm beating a dead horse, but expecting a Freshman to be a strong contributor is unrealistic for 90% of players. It takes a special and quickly developing player to just be starter level as a sophomore.

OL probably requires more time for development than any other position. I don't care how heralded they were in HS or how big and athletic they are. Implying that they aren't good enough because they can't beat out an upperclassman is unfair and naive. It doesn't matter how good/poor the starter is...

Give these kids a couple years to develop before you call them out.

Now back to your Cheetos...

So what you are saying is that even if the Senior laden OL is a huge problem, it is unreasonable to expect a redshirt Freshman to contribute but it is OK to get rid of the coach prior to allowing him enough time for those Freshman he recruited to get older so they can be contributors. I also guess that there are absolutely zero redshirt Freshman OL contributing anywhere in college football.

 

[PlayerRep]

A successful converted TE to o-tackle. Brian O'Neill of Pitt. Went to tackle after spring ball of his frosh year (had been redshirting). Is now 6'6-3/4", 305 and ran a 4.8 40 last summer. SBN first team all-American as redshirt frosh. Won the Piesman award. Scored 2 TD's least season. Gave up fewest sacks of any ACC lineman. Got hurt in spring ball this spring. His dad, a running back, was my teammate in college. DE high school player of the year in football and basketball. Uncle is the Gov. of DE, and another former Dartmouth football player.

"2016: Started all 13 games at right tackle...extended his streak of consecutive starts to 25 contests...while he was highly integral for Pitt's pass protection and nationally ranked running game, O'Neill actually carried the ball twice himself--scoring touchdowns each time...his initial carry came on a throwback lateral that went for a 24-yard TD in the Panthers' 37-34 win over Georgia Tech...reached the end zone again on an end-around play against Virginia Tech that resulted in a five-yard score...had two carries for 29 yards on the year (14.5 avg.) and even threw two passes (against Syracuse and Northwestern, both incomplete)"

"2015: Switched from tight end to offensive tackle in July to fortify depth at the position following the offseason injury to Jaryd Jones-Smith…went on to play in all 13 games, starting the final 12 contests…"

His TD's are linked in this SI article: https://www.si.com/college-football/2016/11/16/meet-king-fat-guy-touchdown-pitt-ol-brian-oneill

http://www.pittsburghpanthers.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/brian_oneill_908359.html

 

[PlayerDad]

My two cents;

From someone who has been kinda close to things on occasion. I've really watched in detail how the BIG BOYS are being handled. Answer, very carefully. I can say WE now We have a crap load of YOUNG talent. You cannot really judge anything based of those Spring Practices. What you can judge is that most everything was Vanilla. Basically shaking off winters rust before Summer workouts. (we all know that) We have 4 seniors and LOTS of Young ins... Don't forget, there are plenty of bumps and bruises out there to. we just can't see them. (maybe that's why we aren't seeing some of the boys) One thing these coaches wont do prior to FALL is, Jack up the future. THIS IS TRUTH.
This coming up season offensively depends big time on the trenches. Those boys are working hard.

The key to OUR O- LINE success 2017? The depth they create with this youth.

We will see these kids this Fall! 2016 recruits will be on that field this year in many aspects.
What a lot of people don't realize is, these boys are getting used to a whole different world here. Balancing school and the demanding football schedule. I'm not making excuses or sugar coating things. Just showing some reality. !! They know why they are there. TO PLAY FOOTBALL.

There are your freaks of nature that start as true freshman and Red-Shirts. It happens and fulfills the I WANT IT NOW PEOPLE!!! lol However,this stuff takes time. Look at Angel! That dude is going to anchor this youth! There's a good solid BAD ASS kid!!! Who's to say any of these young guys wont be out there after Fall? Angel did last year?

THIS FALL is when the crap will hit the fan . You'll see some of these 2016 big boys start to shine!!! They will see both competition at practice and play time.

The boys are going in early for summer work outs . They will be ready to compete!!!

DEPTH DEPTH DEPTH

My Kool-Aid is at full strength at the moment.

GO GRIZ!!

 

[HookedonGriz]

My two cents;

From someone who has been kinda close to things on occasion. I've really watched in detail how the BIG BOYS are being handled. Answer, very carefully. I can say WE now We have a crap load of YOUNG talent. You cannot really judge anything based of those Spring Practices. What you can judge is that most everything was Vanilla. Basically shaking off winters rust before Summer workouts. (we all know that) We have 4 seniors and LOTS of Young ins... Don't forget, there are plenty of bumps and bruises out there to. we just can't see them. (maybe that's why we aren't seeing some of the boys) One thing these coaches wont do prior to FALL is, Jack up the future. THIS IS TRUTH.
This coming up season offensively depends big time on the trenches. Those boys are working hard.

The key to OUR O- LINE success 2017? The depth they create with this youth.

We will see these kids this Fall! 2016 recruits will be on that field this year in many aspects.
What a lot of people don't realize is, these boys are getting used to a whole different world here. Balancing school and the demanding football schedule. I'm not making excuses or sugar coating things. Just showing some reality. !! They know why they are there. TO PLAY FOOTBALL.

There are your freaks of nature that start as true freshman and Red-Shirts. It happens and fulfills the I WANT IT NOW PEOPLE!!! lol However,this stuff takes time. Look at Angel! That dude is going to anchor this youth! There's a good solid BAD ASS kid!!! Who's to say any of these young guys wont be out there after Fall? Angel did last year?

THIS FALL is when the crap will hit the fan . You'll see some of these 2016 big boys start to shine!!! They will see both competition at practice and play time.

The boys are going in early for summer work outs . They will be ready to compete!!!

DEPTH DEPTH DEPTH

My Kool-Aid is at full strength at the moment.

GO GRIZ!!

I wish you'd visit here more and post more. Your insights are 100x more legit than 90% here.

 

[Spanky]

Good to hear from a Player Dad! I used to be one at another school.

 

[Sam A. Blitz]

Feel like I'm beating a dead horse, but expecting a Freshman to be a strong contributor is unrealistic for 90% of players. It takes a special and quickly developing player to just be starter level as a sophomore.

OL probably requires more time for development than any other position. I don't care how heralded they were in HS or how big and athletic they are. Implying that they aren't good enough because they can't beat out an upperclassman is unfair and naive. It doesn't matter how good/poor the starter is...

Give these kids a couple years to develop before you call them out.

Now back to your Cheetos...

So what you are saying is that even if the Senior laden OL is a huge problem, it is unreasonable to expect a redshirt Freshman to contribute but it is OK to get rid of the coach prior to allowing him enough time for those Freshman he recruited to get older so they can be contributors. I also guess that there are absolutely zero redshirt Freshman OL contributing anywhere in college football.

No. I didn't say anything about the coaches. Don't put words in my mouth.

The freshman OL on the squad have been on campus for less than a year. They are very young and play a position that has a steep learning curve. It is unreasonable to expect them to be at the top of the depth chart by spring ball. It is also rare for Freshman to be solid contributors as redshirt Freshman. I don't care if you 6'6" 300# and are athletic, if you haven't developed the technical aspects of the position or have a good grasp of your assignments, you aren't going to be ready. There are some freshman that contribute on the OL in CF, but it is a small percentage. I like the young talent we have and we should have a much improved unit in a year or two.

 

[fanofzoo]

Feel like I'm beating a dead horse, but expecting a Freshman to be a strong contributor is unrealistic for 90% of players. It takes a special and quickly developing player to just be starter level as a sophomore.

OL probably requires more time for development than any other position. I don't care how heralded they were in HS or how big and athletic they are. Implying that they aren't good enough because they can't beat out an upperclassman is unfair and naive. It doesn't matter how good/poor the starter is...

Give these kids a couple years to develop before you call them out.

Now back to your Cheetos...

So what you are saying is that even if the Senior laden OL is a huge problem, it is unreasonable to expect a redshirt Freshman to contribute but it is OK to get rid of the coach prior to allowing him enough time for those Freshman he recruited to get older so they can be contributors. I also guess that there are absolutely zero redshirt Freshman OL contributing anywhere in college football.

No. I didn't say anything about the coaches. Don't put words in my mouth.

The freshman OL on the squad have been on campus for less than a year. They are very young and play a position that has a steep learning curve. It is unreasonable to expect them to be at the top of the depth chart by spring ball. It is also rare for Freshman to be solid contributors as redshirt Freshman. I don't care if you 6'6" 300# and are athletic, if you haven't developed the technical aspects of the position or have a good grasp of your assignments, you aren't going to be ready. There are some freshman that contribute on the OL in CF, but it is a small percentage. I like the young talent we have and we should have a much improved unit in a year or two.

Even without stitt

 

[Merkleman]

I think some of the success Hill had was do to the time allowed to make a read. While watching I tried to get a sense of the time by using the old 1001, 1002 time thing and I only made it to 1002 once while watching Jensen and Phillips. On the other had I got to 2004 several times with Hill. With so many 2's playing as 1's does that mean Hill was going against a lot of 3's and 4's? Certainly the 2's that played as 1's on defense did any excellent job and some may end of as 1's, time will tell.

I'll say this again....Hill played against who he was put on the field against. If he played against 3s as you say, then Reese and Gresch went against 2s. So they should have produced as well. Hill was sacked as many times as the first team so it didn't appear he got more time to throw. I thought Hill and Gresch have showed the most promise and improvement this spring, with Hill having the least time with this offense. I will say that Hill seems to have a fire that other players can feed off of and that will be needed.

I agree with you that Hill played with who he was put with.
With the exception of a hand full of plays, he made good decisions and moved the ball.

And you are also right that he was probably sacked as much as the first team QB's.

The difference however was that the sacks Gresch and Phillips Took happened in less than 3 seconds.

The sacks Hill took were all 4+ seconds.they were not the fault of the O line. Unlike Phillips and Gresch he had time to go threw his progressions. However when you go through your progressions and nothing is open you either have to hit the check down or throw the ball into the stands and live to fight another day. It's better to throw it away and have a 2nd or 3rd and done then a 2nd or 3rd and 20.

Now there could be a simple reasons for that.
Either he knows he is behind the other two and was trying to make things happen or he needs to learn it. But you have to throw it away and not take the sack. They are drive killers.

The good thing is, it's something he can fix.

 

[granitegriz]

Great points Sam A. Blitz! :thumb:

 

[NorthEndZoneDan]

My two cents;

From someone who has been kinda close to things on occasion. I've really watched in detail how the BIG BOYS are being handled. Answer, very carefully. I can say WE now We have a crap load of YOUNG talent. You cannot really judge anything based of those Spring Practices. What you can judge is that most everything was Vanilla. Basically shaking off winters rust before Summer workouts. (we all know that) We have 4 seniors and LOTS of Young ins... Don't forget, there are plenty of bumps and bruises out there to. we just can't see them. (maybe that's why we aren't seeing some of the boys) One thing these coaches wont do prior to FALL is, Jack up the future. THIS IS TRUTH.
This coming up season offensively depends big time on the trenches. Those boys are working hard.

The key to OUR O- LINE success 2017? The depth they create with this youth.

We will see these kids this Fall! 2016 recruits will be on that field this year in many aspects.
What a lot of people don't realize is, these boys are getting used to a whole different world here. Balancing school and the demanding football schedule. I'm not making excuses or sugar coating things. Just showing some reality. !! They know why they are there. TO PLAY FOOTBALL.

There are your freaks of nature that start as true freshman and Red-Shirts. It happens and fulfills the I WANT IT NOW PEOPLE!!! lol However,this stuff takes time. Look at Angel! That dude is going to anchor this youth! There's a good solid BAD ASS kid!!! Who's to say any of these young guys wont be out there after Fall? Angel did last year?

THIS FALL is when the crap will hit the fan . You'll see some of these 2016 big boys start to shine!!! They will see both competition at practice and play time.

The boys are going in early for summer work outs . They will be ready to compete!!!

DEPTH DEPTH DEPTH

My Kool-Aid is at full strength at the moment.

GO GRIZ!!

I wish you'd visit here more and post more. Your insights are 100x more legit than 90% here.

Agreed! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[get'em_griz]

Feel like I'm beating a dead horse, but expecting a Freshman to be a strong contributor is unrealistic for 90% of players. It takes a special and quickly developing player to just be starter level as a sophomore.

OL probably requires more time for development than any other position. I don't care how heralded they were in HS or how big and athletic they are. Implying that they aren't good enough because they can't beat out an upperclassman is unfair and naive. It doesn't matter how good/poor the starter is...

Give these kids a couple years to develop before you call them out.

Now back to your Cheetos...

So what you are saying is that even if the Senior laden OL is a huge problem, it is unreasonable to expect a redshirt Freshman to contribute but it is OK to get rid of the coach prior to allowing him enough time for those Freshman he recruited to get older so they can be contributors. I also guess that there are absolutely zero redshirt Freshman OL contributing anywhere in college football.

No. I didn't say anything about the coaches. Don't put words in my mouth.

The freshman OL on the squad have been on campus for less than a year. They are very young and play a position that has a steep learning curve. It is unreasonable to expect them to be at the top of the depth chart by spring ball. It is also rare for Freshman to be solid contributors as redshirt Freshman. I don't care if you 6'6" 300# and are athletic, if you haven't developed the technical aspects of the position or have a good grasp of your assignments, you aren't going to be ready. There are some freshman that contribute on the OL in CF, but it is a small percentage. I like the young talent we have and we should have a much improved unit in a year or two.

Even without stitt

And that would be because Stitt recruited them.