Right. Take care of the pity kitties first! This sucks for Will. Thanks for all you brought to Griz basketball and we will take up your NBA thread next year. But don't dispair Griz fans. This team will step up.
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With a Healthy Cherry?
- Thread starter BelierPeaux
- Start date
Wrote up a little post on what things might look like without Cherry and without Ward (for however long he is out). Would appreciate insight from the guys that watch them more than I do to if I am accurate or not - http://www.bigskybball.com/2013/02/what-does-montana-look-like-without.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
becker2117
Well-known member
I liked it, but i think we do alright on the boards with that small lineup....We cleaned the boards in the second half vs Davidson and out rebounded them for the game! We give up some O boards when we are in the zone but i think thats pretty common.....I think this will be a big chance for weisner to unleash the three point shot...we havent seen much out of him lately but maybe i just think that cuz there has been a long lay off....i guess he hit a few threes vs ISU but didnt do much vs weber or davidson. We definatly have the depth in shooting to overcome losses of cherry and ward, but we cant overcome wills D and leadership of will and matt, like you said. Jordan and Mikey sure can stroke it from deep, maybe we get them a few more attempts....i still am very excited bout this teamjon said:
On the Griz Side
Well-known member
Good Post Jon, your right. I'll chime in with a thought or two. MT's offense has been built around penetration almost entirely this year. Get to the rim, get to the line, or dump and work a triangle. DeShields seems the most capable in filling in for Cherry in this department, but he's inexperienced, which causes him to force some things. Of course, Will would often get himself in trouble in the lane on dribble drives, but being a senior he often drew a whistle in those situations, where Keron will not. Gregory and Henderson will also have to attack the basket, but coach will expect them to measure their opportunities wisely, as opposed to giving DeShields a green light.
The other aspect of MT's offensive game was getting Ward and Jamar to post up if they double the ball up top. Coleman especially is going to have to step up in this area for MT to continue to be sucessful, and he looks like he has some of the tools, but just hasn't been asked to fill that role yet.
Obviously there are some interesting things to discuss with the possibility of MT losing 2/3 of the big 3, but it bares mentioning that Martin and Hutchison have seen their minutes (combined) gradually increase over the later part of the season. That was by design by the coaching staff, as neither center was a ready contributor early in the year, but were always a planned part of the offense. I think coach Tinkle will be okay with giving up a slight bit in the rebounding department to get some offense from either one of those players, and he's going to have to demand more defense from them.
I agree with you that Wayne Tinkle is the best coach in the Big Sky, and I think Montana will be in it right up to the end, if not beyond to the Big Dance.
The other aspect of MT's offensive game was getting Ward and Jamar to post up if they double the ball up top. Coleman especially is going to have to step up in this area for MT to continue to be sucessful, and he looks like he has some of the tools, but just hasn't been asked to fill that role yet.
Obviously there are some interesting things to discuss with the possibility of MT losing 2/3 of the big 3, but it bares mentioning that Martin and Hutchison have seen their minutes (combined) gradually increase over the later part of the season. That was by design by the coaching staff, as neither center was a ready contributor early in the year, but were always a planned part of the offense. I think coach Tinkle will be okay with giving up a slight bit in the rebounding department to get some offense from either one of those players, and he's going to have to demand more defense from them.
I agree with you that Wayne Tinkle is the best coach in the Big Sky, and I think Montana will be in it right up to the end, if not beyond to the Big Dance.
WSUnPurple
Well-known member
Optimistic bunch. In a sad way, it's over. Weber was hosting after Wards injury let alone Cherry's. Got to be realistic UM is a very thin team, & you take away 2 of the best players this conference has seen in a while, & it's over for the Griz. Takes away a little of the excitement, but it's Webers time to shine.
mtgrizrule
Well-known member
Offensively, I am not really worried. We have plenty of scoring from our back court depth. Defensively, we miss his tenacity and ability to create an extra 6 to 8 points per game with his steals. Deshields and Gregory are very good defenders at keeping their assignments under wraps. I honestly would be expanding Henderson's role defensively. He is the best behind Cherry at creating turnovers defensively. Also Coleman is a much better defender than Ward, and can make create some havoc in the passing lanes. I expect the GRIZ to be more aggressive as a whole to make up for Cherry's absence. Similar to the tensity we seen the 2nd half against Davidson. Opponent posts better be prepared for a lot of hands swarming the ball, and make quick decision with the ball.
Offensively, I hope Ward is back soon. He is so consistent and a difficult match up for opponents. I do feel Coleman is physically capable of putting up Ward like numbers. The question, Is he ready to do so? He can also put the ball on the floor and take it the hole better than Mathias.
I hope we plan to get Weisner and Gregory more looks from 3. Both these guys are great perimeter shooters. I expect Jamar to be asked to do more of everything, including more ball distribution and scoring, with both Ward and Cherry out. It is nice to have a talent like Kareem when injuries happen. He does not have a weakness, and the reigns to the team are being handed over to him officially now.
I am not worried about the regular season, and feel we still host the conference tournament. I honestly do not want to see Weber State again. If Ward is 100% I like our chances though. If Ward is not 100%, I do feel we will be a little too shorthanded to overcome them.
As for Will, it will be great seeing him motivate and lead from the sidelines. He will be another coach rest of this season. I hope he rehabs fast and gets back to 100% for NBA evaluations and camps. He has the talent to make the league. It is a shame this injury has come into play. Will get well soon, we are all pulling for you.
Offensively, I hope Ward is back soon. He is so consistent and a difficult match up for opponents. I do feel Coleman is physically capable of putting up Ward like numbers. The question, Is he ready to do so? He can also put the ball on the floor and take it the hole better than Mathias.
I hope we plan to get Weisner and Gregory more looks from 3. Both these guys are great perimeter shooters. I expect Jamar to be asked to do more of everything, including more ball distribution and scoring, with both Ward and Cherry out. It is nice to have a talent like Kareem when injuries happen. He does not have a weakness, and the reigns to the team are being handed over to him officially now.
I am not worried about the regular season, and feel we still host the conference tournament. I honestly do not want to see Weber State again. If Ward is 100% I like our chances though. If Ward is not 100%, I do feel we will be a little too shorthanded to overcome them.
As for Will, it will be great seeing him motivate and lead from the sidelines. He will be another coach rest of this season. I hope he rehabs fast and gets back to 100% for NBA evaluations and camps. He has the talent to make the league. It is a shame this injury has come into play. Will get well soon, we are all pulling for you.
grizzlyjournal
Well-known member
Grizrule: Spot-on, as usual. Great, concise summary of Montana's current reality. I would just add three brief points:
1. +1 but with emphasis regarding K. Henderson. In fact, I think how he steps up may well determine Montana's success, because this team no longer has any depth. I know without a doubt he's got the inner fire to do so... We'll see how he responds.
2. I'd add A. Martin into the mix. If Andy can give the Griz minutes equal to, or even slightly better, than his efforts against Davidson, then I certainly like the expanding dynamics of Montana's frontcourt stability and how they can affect games early on (probably not during each game's crunchtime).
3. Finally, to repeat something Citay mentioned earlier in this thread: The Griz are NOW the core of 2013-14 Montana Grizzlies... and they all know it. I have no doubt they'll do whatever they can to prove themselves worthy of that mantle by Saturday.
1. +1 but with emphasis regarding K. Henderson. In fact, I think how he steps up may well determine Montana's success, because this team no longer has any depth. I know without a doubt he's got the inner fire to do so... We'll see how he responds.
2. I'd add A. Martin into the mix. If Andy can give the Griz minutes equal to, or even slightly better, than his efforts against Davidson, then I certainly like the expanding dynamics of Montana's frontcourt stability and how they can affect games early on (probably not during each game's crunchtime).
3. Finally, to repeat something Citay mentioned earlier in this thread: The Griz are NOW the core of 2013-14 Montana Grizzlies... and they all know it. I have no doubt they'll do whatever they can to prove themselves worthy of that mantle by Saturday.
becker2117
Well-known member
Jumping the fun a little aren't ya?...take a look at who we play....even without cherry and matty we are better than the last 4 teams we play...and ward could be back....so pack ur bags for missoula ...this might be webers time to shine now that the Griz are short handed but Ull have to take it from us in missoula cuz if u think this team will fold you are not being realistic.putter said:
Tragic news about Cherry. I hope he gets a shot at the NBA. His injury occurred at a terrible time. He needs time to get himself back to 100% and he can't rush himself, or this injury will only keep coming back over and over again. Nonetheless, I wish him the best. He deserves to have a shot at the NBA.
What exactly is wrong with Ward? Does he have a hairline fracture in his arch or is it a deep bruise? Arch injuries are extremely tough to get rid of, similar to a bruised heel, but heels tend to heal faster. Yes, you can play on them, but they hurt like hell and you can't jump much, which really affects your ability to play basketball. However, Ward is a senior and if he can deal with the pain, and it won't get worse (that is the key) if he does play on it, then why not? If it is a playable injury, I wouldn't doubt seeing Ward back on the bench this saturday. However, if it isn't, there is a good chance his season might be done.
Talking about Ward. Out of the two players to lose, I still think he is the worse one to lose. UM is really thin in the front court and even though Martin and Hutch did a decent job on Saturday, Davidson's talent was in the backcourt. Davidson reminded me of a Big Sky power. Great backcourt...good enough frontcourt to play with some of the big boys. The difference between good teams and great teams, at the mid-major level, is having both a backcourt and a frontcourt. In the Sky, and in a lot of the mid-major conferences, you can win by only having a backcourt, but once you get to the dance, if you want a chance to compete you have to be, at least, able to defend in the paint. Davidson's bigs weren't the greatest and their frontcourt was a bit thin. Solid Mid-Major team, but not quite balanced. Could they win against a Major. Of course, could Montana, yes, but UM's chances are far better with Ward than without him. With Ward, on Saturday, UM wins.
I don't care what anyone says. Coleman is not a better defender than Ward. They play completely different positions. Coleman is a 6-6 SF...he can play PF, but he is undersized and totally out of position when he does. He would get eaten alive by the better 4's in the conference, even by Flavian Davis at MSU who, like Coleman, isn't a 4, but due to size issues plays the 4. Yet, Davis is a bit more suited to play in the paint. He is one solid dude, Coleman is thin, but thicker the Weisner. Next, Ward is a big who can extend the floor. He can battle in the paint and can hit the 3. He is a far better shooter than Coleman. I'm not ripping on Coleman, but there isn't a comparsion between the two of them. Coleman is a role player, Ward is a 1st teamer kind of player. Ward is a true big. Coleman isn't. Ward can guard against Tresnak, Cheeseman, Veteto, the big at MSU Paul whatever his last name is, and Max Jacobsen...Coleman can't. Could you imagine him trying to face up agains the good 4's of the league: Otis, Moore, Barden, etc. I can't see it. Heaven's there are times that Tinks goes with Gregory instead of Coleman in the starting lineup. I know you have to be optimistic, but that optimism, saying Coleman is a better player that Ward is specious at best. He was the best guy available to try to fill in the void left by Art Steward and he has done well, but not great.
I'd hope that Ward would be available soon or else, things could get a bit interesting for UM or hope that Hutch and Martin can bring it. Don't you all wish that Billy was still around?
What exactly is wrong with Ward? Does he have a hairline fracture in his arch or is it a deep bruise? Arch injuries are extremely tough to get rid of, similar to a bruised heel, but heels tend to heal faster. Yes, you can play on them, but they hurt like hell and you can't jump much, which really affects your ability to play basketball. However, Ward is a senior and if he can deal with the pain, and it won't get worse (that is the key) if he does play on it, then why not? If it is a playable injury, I wouldn't doubt seeing Ward back on the bench this saturday. However, if it isn't, there is a good chance his season might be done.
Talking about Ward. Out of the two players to lose, I still think he is the worse one to lose. UM is really thin in the front court and even though Martin and Hutch did a decent job on Saturday, Davidson's talent was in the backcourt. Davidson reminded me of a Big Sky power. Great backcourt...good enough frontcourt to play with some of the big boys. The difference between good teams and great teams, at the mid-major level, is having both a backcourt and a frontcourt. In the Sky, and in a lot of the mid-major conferences, you can win by only having a backcourt, but once you get to the dance, if you want a chance to compete you have to be, at least, able to defend in the paint. Davidson's bigs weren't the greatest and their frontcourt was a bit thin. Solid Mid-Major team, but not quite balanced. Could they win against a Major. Of course, could Montana, yes, but UM's chances are far better with Ward than without him. With Ward, on Saturday, UM wins.
I don't care what anyone says. Coleman is not a better defender than Ward. They play completely different positions. Coleman is a 6-6 SF...he can play PF, but he is undersized and totally out of position when he does. He would get eaten alive by the better 4's in the conference, even by Flavian Davis at MSU who, like Coleman, isn't a 4, but due to size issues plays the 4. Yet, Davis is a bit more suited to play in the paint. He is one solid dude, Coleman is thin, but thicker the Weisner. Next, Ward is a big who can extend the floor. He can battle in the paint and can hit the 3. He is a far better shooter than Coleman. I'm not ripping on Coleman, but there isn't a comparsion between the two of them. Coleman is a role player, Ward is a 1st teamer kind of player. Ward is a true big. Coleman isn't. Ward can guard against Tresnak, Cheeseman, Veteto, the big at MSU Paul whatever his last name is, and Max Jacobsen...Coleman can't. Could you imagine him trying to face up agains the good 4's of the league: Otis, Moore, Barden, etc. I can't see it. Heaven's there are times that Tinks goes with Gregory instead of Coleman in the starting lineup. I know you have to be optimistic, but that optimism, saying Coleman is a better player that Ward is specious at best. He was the best guy available to try to fill in the void left by Art Steward and he has done well, but not great.
I'd hope that Ward would be available soon or else, things could get a bit interesting for UM or hope that Hutch and Martin can bring it. Don't you all wish that Billy was still around?
MaximumGriz2013
Well-known member
info said:
I certainly hope so. That would be great news.
WSUnPurple said:
:roll:
See you in Missoula on the 16th, Purple.
And that is the GREATEST news ever if Will's injury is not a break. Even if he never plays another minute for UM (which I pray is not the case), I'm certainly pleased to hear he evidently didn't re-break the foot.
WSUWALDO said:
Overall, a decent post, although I don't necessarily agree with some of your rationalizations.
However, this was a complete WTF comment:
WHHATTT?? Davidson's two best players are Brooks, and Jake Cohen, who is not only Davidson's best player, but one of the best mid-major players in the nation. Complete fail on your analysis, there.
