"Winning the state" in recruiting

[NativeGriz]

Not exactly on point but this is a great microcosm of how the state really feels. Yesterday, I was at the G-town Lake parade. If you have never been to that, you need to put it on your bucket list. It's a f***[*] blast; basically a gigantic, drunk water fight. I'll never miss it.
Anyway, these jack-ass cat fans entered a float. It looked like a bobcat ambulance that actually had a very nice custom paint job, despite the horrible theme. I have no idea what they were thinking; this is certainly griz county. As expected, those dumb cat fans got absolutely punished. First, the crowd was just booing them, then the water balloons started to fly. Those poor bastards. For a brief moment, I felt sorry for them. But then, when I ran out of balloons, I started throwing half-empty beers from the closest garbage can.
Seriously, who would get booed on a 4th of July float? Only bobcats and ISIS, that's who.

Sounded like it was a blast, but I don't know if I could give up Flathead Lake which included some great music and 2 fabulous firework shows in Polson. As for the rest of your story, that was damn funny. It may have been dumb, but part of me admires how brave they were. I would love to see a video of them getting blasted.

 

[daGrizJ]

It seems to me recruiting is pretty much a crap shoot with a little more up front info from Hudl. Geez, Mariani was a tennis player and Chase played 8 man. I dare anyone to say they honestly saw either one as NFL material. As I see it, all a coach can to do is get the best athelets/students he can to fill each position. I love it when Montana kids "make it" and I would hope the top 5 in the state would want to play for the Griz but the numbers just don't play out. We need top flight out of state men if we expect to compete on a national level.

 

[Sam A. Blitz]

It seems to me recruiting is pretty much a crap shoot with a little more up front info from Hudl. Geez, Mariani was a tennis player and Chase played 8 man. I dare anyone to say they honestly saw either one as NFL material. As I see it, all a coach can to do is get the best athelets/students he can to fill each position. I love it when Montana kids "make it" and I would hope the top 5 in the state would want to play for the Griz but the numbers just don't play out. We need top flight out of state men if we expect to compete on a national level.

Really highlights the importance of camps, doesn't it? I doubt Mariani and Reynolds were considered "top 5" recruits coming out of HS. Reynolds was a record setting HS RB, but I know there were a lot of question marks and non-believers on his college potential when he came in as a Freshman. In fact, there are numerous players who came in unheralded that ended up being all-conference players for us. Luckily our coaches understand how to recruit and evaluate talent and don't rely on star rankings from a recruiting service (none do). The statement that you are only going to go after the Top 5 perceived recruits is a lousy strategy. In many instances, the kid who is outside that top 5 might be someone that is a better fit than someone that is considered by someone as "top 5". All coaches understand this. There aren't any coaches that built their strategy around star rankings or ratings put together by sports journalists. Those services are mostly for fans.

 

[VimSince03]

It seems to me recruiting is pretty much a crap shoot with a little more up front info from Hudl. Geez, Mariani was a tennis player and Chase played 8 man. I dare anyone to say they honestly saw either one as NFL material. As I see it, all a coach can to do is get the best athelets/students he can to fill each position. I love it when Montana kids "make it" and I would hope the top 5 in the state would want to play for the Griz but the numbers just don't play out. We need top flight out of state men if we expect to compete on a national level.

Really highlights the importance of camps, doesn't it? I doubt Mariani and Reynolds were considered "top 5" recruits coming out of HS. Reynolds was a record setting HS RB, but I know there were a lot of question marks and non-believers on his college potential when he came in as a Freshman. In fact, there are numerous players who came in unheralded that ended up being all-conference players for us. Luckily our coaches understand how to recruit and evaluate talent and don't rely on star rankings from a recruiting service (none do). The statement that you are only going to go after the Top 5 perceived recruits is a lousy strategy. In many instances, the kid who is outside that top 5 might be someone that is a better fit than someone that is considered by someone as "top 5". All coaches understand this. There aren't any coaches that built their strategy around star rankings or ratings put together by sports journalists. Those services are mostly for fans.

Another good "get him to a camp" story was Noxon's own Dan Beaudin. Hauck has gone on record saying they might not have offered him if they didn't get a chance to see him workout at a summer camp. Hauck had an excellent track record of getting the most out of his Montana talent. He got some of the best in-state recruits during his tenure but he also swung on a lot of no-namers that turned out to be stars.

 

[BWahlberg]

I just spent the 4th weekend at Flathead Lake, and one of the guys staying with us used to be a head football coach for a Missoula high school. We discussed the recruiting Montana thing at length. He maintains that there are only about 2-4 kids in most years in the entire state that are worth recruiting at the FCS level. He makes a good point, which is why I have always advocated a goal to sign the top 5 high school kids from Montana each year. I have NEVER been into just signing a bunch of Montana kids who are not capable of starting. In fact, a head coach should only sign kids who he thinks have a very good chance to start. He will miss on quite a few, but if he never "reaches" on marginal kids, he will develop a great team, with lots of depth, and be able to re-tool each season like NDSU does. This is what we must strive to do...... re-tool every year, just like in years past.

Interesting. That basically contradicts every post you have ever made on this subject.

He's watching this next recruiting cycle blow his argument out of the water, so he's in the process of framing a new agenda upon which to bitch about through the next year and into next spring.

And his logic of signing just the top 2-4 in-state kids each year...

So by that logic we should really just have 2 to 4 Montana kids in each class. Looking at the current classes, then who should the Griz not have signed? Especially the seniors: Peevey, Weyer, Theibes, Kidder, or Gustafson. So who gets cut? They're all starters, all major contributors to the team. By his logic 1 to 3 of these guys shouldn't have been brought in.

 

[VimSince03]

I just spent the 4th weekend at Flathead Lake, and one of the guys staying with us used to be a head football coach for a Missoula high school. We discussed the recruiting Montana thing at length. He maintains that there are only about 2-4 kids in most years in the entire state that are worth recruiting at the FCS level. He makes a good point, which is why I have always advocated a goal to sign the top 5 high school kids from Montana each year. I have NEVER been into just signing a bunch of Montana kids who are not capable of starting. In fact, a head coach should only sign kids who he thinks have a very good chance to start. He will miss on quite a few, but if he never "reaches" on marginal kids, he will develop a great team, with lots of depth, and be able to re-tool each season like NDSU does. This is what we must strive to do...... re-tool every year, just like in years past.

Interesting. That basically contradicts every post you have ever made on this subject.

He's watching this next recruiting cycle blow his argument out of the water, so he's in the process of framing a new agenda upon which to bitch about through the next year and into next spring.

And his logic of signing just the top 2-4 in-state kids each year...

So by that logic we should really just have 2 to 4 Montana kids in each class. Looking at the current classes, then who should the Griz not have signed? Especially the seniors: Peevey, Weyer, Theibes, Kidder, or Gustafson. So who gets cut? They're all starters, all major contributors to the team. By his logic 1 to 3 of these guys shouldn't have been brought in.

And it also proves the point of many that you have to produce when you sign. To give a little perspective, here is my write-up on that 2012 Montana class who signed with the Griz and Cats:

2012 (Signing day additions)

Montana - Caleb Kidder, Bo Harris, Zach Peevey, Brady Gustafson, Ben Weyer, Clint LaRowe, Ryan Burke, Jake Simkins

Montana State - Austin Barth, Jackson Mahlum, Vince DiGillonardo, Cody Dopps, Dillon Fraley, Luke Halliburton, Chad Newell, Eric Johnson, Cole Howells, Tyler Blomstrom

Breakdown:

You may noticed a man by the name of Newell on the list. He was a fall camp walk-on for the Bobcats in 2012. The Griz or Cats did not offer the bruising high school back mostly due to a bad knee injury his junior year. We all know the rest of the story. Major contributors for the Griz include starters Caleb Kidder, Zach Peevey, Brady Gustafson, and Ben Weyer. Clint LaRowe was cut this prior to this past spring and Ryan Burke had to retire due to concussion symptoms. All have made an impact over the last two to three years. Kidder has arguably been the best of the bunch. The former Gatorade Player of the Year has battled injuries but when healthy, he is a beast. Peevey worked his tail off and has put himself in position for a starting spot his senior year. Weyer has been a starter on the offensive line and should have a healthy senior campaign. Burke would have played major snaps this year if not for his injury. And then Mr. Gustafson had himself quite the season this year for only playing in six games. His return was instrumental to the Griz's end of season streak. Bo Harris left the team last year. Jackson Thiebes was brought on board in 2013 so I consider him a 2013 recruit. Solid class for the Griz.

On the Cats side, only two players received aid. This was a small recruiting class overall (only 12 players signed because the Cats had an overload on scholarships). Barth and DiGillonardo were two Flathead Valley recruits who had high upside coming out of high school. Both were considered Top 10 talents. The former high school QB (Barth) has bulked up and turned into a very good tight end and will be our starter next year. Is a tremendous run-blocker and arguably the best in the conference at that position. Vince never could crack the secondary rotation and transferred in 2014. Other than that, everyone else was a walk-on. Dillon Fraley and Luke Halliburton only saw backup duty and both retired from the team. The only two players that are still on the team are Barth and Newell.

The Griz win this one and thank god we got Newell to walk-on or this year would have been worse. Winner: Griz.

Right now here is how I see it ranked from that 2012 class:

1) Caleb Kidder (Full scholarship)
2) Chad Newell (Walk-on - fall camp)
3) Brady Gustafson (Full)
4) Ben Weyer (Full)
5) Austin Barth (Full)
6) Zach Peevey (PWO)

 

[Bear Axed]

Interesting. That basically contradicts every post you have ever made on this subject.

He's watching this next recruiting cycle blow his argument out of the water, so he's in the process of framing a new agenda upon which to bitch about through the next year and into next spring.

And his logic of signing just the top 2-4 in-state kids each year...

So by that logic we should really just have 2 to 4 Montana kids in each class. Looking at the current classes, then who should the Griz not have signed? Especially the seniors: Peevey, Weyer, Theibes, Kidder, or Gustafson. So who gets cut? They're all starters, all major contributors to the team. By his logic 1 to 3 of these guys shouldn't have been brought in.

And it also proves the point of many that you have to produce when you sign. To give a little perspective, here is my write-up on that 2012 Montana class who signed with the Griz and Cats:

2012 (Signing day additions)

Montana - Caleb Kidder, Bo Harris, Zach Peevey, Brady Gustafson, Ben Weyer, Clint LaRowe, Ryan Burke, Jake Simkins

Montana State - Austin Barth, Jackson Mahlum, Vince DiGillonardo, Cody Dopps, Dillon Fraley, Luke Halliburton, Chad Newell, Eric Johnson, Cole Howells, Tyler Blomstrom

Breakdown:

You may noticed a man by the name of Newell on the list. He was a fall camp walk-on for the Bobcats in 2012. The Griz or Cats did not offer the bruising high school back mostly due to a bad knee injury his junior year. We all know the rest of the story. Major contributors for the Griz include starters Caleb Kidder, Zach Peevey, Brady Gustafson, and Ben Weyer. Clint LaRowe was cut this prior to this past spring and Ryan Burke had to retire due to concussion symptoms. All have made an impact over the last two to three years. Kidder has arguably been the best of the bunch. The former Gatorade Player of the Year has battled injuries but when healthy, he is a beast. Peevey worked his tail off and has put himself in position for a starting spot his senior year. Weyer has been a starter on the offensive line and should have a healthy senior campaign. Burke would have played major snaps this year if not for his injury. And then Mr. Gustafson had himself quite the season this year for only playing in six games. His return was instrumental to the Griz's end of season streak. Bo Harris left the team last year. Jackson Thiebes was brought on board in 2013 so I consider him a 2013 recruit. Solid class for the Griz.

On the Cats side, only two players received aid. This was a small recruiting class overall (only 12 players signed because the Cats had an overload on scholarships). Barth and DiGillonardo were two Flathead Valley recruits who had high upside coming out of high school. Both were considered Top 10 talents. The former high school QB (Barth) has bulked up and turned into a very good tight end and will be our starter next year. Is a tremendous run-blocker and arguably the best in the conference at that position. Vince never could crack the secondary rotation and transferred in 2014. Other than that, everyone else was a walk-on. Dillon Fraley and Luke Halliburton only saw backup duty and both retired from the team. The only two players that are still on the team are Barth and Newell.

The Griz win this one and thank god we got Newell to walk-on or this year would have been worse. Winner: Griz.

Right now here is how I see it ranked from that 2012 class:

1) Caleb Kidder (Full scholarship)
2) Chad Newell (Walk-on - fall camp)
3) Brady Gustafson (Full)
4) Ben Weyer (Full)
5) Austin Barth (Full)
6) Zach Peevey (PWO)

Stevie Dill says the Kittens have trucked the Griz the last FIVE years....Maybe he's just not counting 2012 or 2015?

 

[Atlanta Griz1]

I just spent the 4th weekend at Flathead Lake, and one of the guys staying with us used to be a head football coach for a Missoula high school. We discussed the recruiting Montana thing at length. He maintains that there are only about 2-4 kids in most years in the entire state that are worth recruiting at the FCS level. He makes a good point, which is why I have always advocated a goal to sign the top 5 high school kids from Montana each year. I have NEVER been into just signing a bunch of Montana kids who are not capable of starting. In fact, a head coach should only sign kids who he thinks have a very good chance to start. He will miss on quite a few, but if he never "reaches" on marginal kids, he will develop a great team, with lots of depth, and be able to re-tool each season like NDSU does. This is what we must strive to do...... re-tool every year, just like in years past.

Interesting. That basically contradicts every post you have ever made on this subject.

Raider, you have been hanging around these hacks too long. Don't be a dick like them. You know very well that I only want the Top 5 Montana high school recruits. How many times do I have to post it before you will stop mis-quoting me and feeding the lemmings?

I realize your game is to spin and talk out of both sides of your mouth, but I’ll play along anyway.

I asked you over and over to provide specific examples of the long list of MT players we have lost to MSU to support your “we are losing the in state recruiting battle” nonsense. You managed to come up with a grand total of 3 names to support your case. 2 of the 3 don’t start, have done very little at MSU, and certainly wouldn’t start here. So, which is it?

Like always you are try to spin this any angle you can, in hopes it proves some kind of point.

You have some good football insight, but as it relates to this in state recruiting issue, you are just flat ass wrong. Period. And don’t try to spew the “I am friends with insiders who agree with me” crap. That is a non-starter.

It may be a non-starter for you, but I was with one of them last weekend at the lake, and I assure that he agrees with me. You try to discredit me just because I don't list a bunch of names. I don't follow Montana high school football, and don't even live in the state during the football season. My info comes from individuals whose opinions I trust, and who certainly know more about the subject than you do.

 

[George Ferguson]

SOOOO ONE person in a state of 1 million said the Griz are being out-recruited by MSU and it's gospel? lol. Wolfman, you're doing it again. You're backtracking. Because on Maroonblood not long ago you led a rant about the QUANTITY of MT kids MSU was signing. Now you're only wanting QUALITYY? Man you change your thoughts as often as you do your screenname.

 

[Atlanta Griz1]

It seems to me recruiting is pretty much a crap shoot with a little more up front info from Hudl. Geez, Mariani was a tennis player and Chase played 8 man. I dare anyone to say they honestly saw either one as NFL material. As I see it, all a coach can to do is get the best athelets/students he can to fill each position. I love it when Montana kids "make it" and I would hope the top 5 in the state would want to play for the Griz but the numbers just don't play out. We need top flight out of state men if we expect to compete on a national level.

Really highlights the importance of camps, doesn't it? I doubt Mariani and Reynolds were considered "top 5" recruits coming out of HS. Reynolds was a record setting HS RB, but I know there were a lot of question marks and non-believers on his college potential when he came in as a Freshman. In fact, there are numerous players who came in unheralded that ended up being all-conference players for us. Luckily our coaches understand how to recruit and evaluate talent and don't rely on star rankings from a recruiting service (none do). The statement that you are only going to go after the Top 5 perceived recruits is a lousy strategy. In many instances, the kid who is outside that top 5 might be someone that is a better fit than someone that is considered by someone as "top 5". All coaches understand this. There aren't any coaches that built their strategy around star rankings or ratings put together by sports journalists. Those services are mostly for fans.

You couldn't be more wrong. Rivals did a retrospective look at the last three years NFL Pro-bowl teams, to see how they ranked them as high school players. They are amazingly accurate at ranking them coming out of high school, with over half of them being 5-star players, and the rest being 4-star. There three 3-star Pro-bowlers and one two-star (Le'Veon Bell).

Furthermore, there have been very few Montana high school players ranked with any stars by Rivals, since they don't have a rep in the state.

 

[BWahlberg]

SOOOO ONE person in a state of 1 million said the Griz are being out-recruited by MSU and it's gospel? lol. Wolfman, you're doing it again. You're backtracking. Because on Maroonblood not long ago you led a rant about the QUANTITY of MT kids MSU was signing. Now you're only wanting QUALITYY? Man you change your thoughts as often as you do your screenname.

Maybe the thoughts in his head get band* too





*banned

 

[Atlanta Griz1]

SOOOO ONE person in a state of 1 million said the Griz are being out-recruited by MSU and it's gospel? lol. Wolfman, you're doing it again. You're backtracking. Because on Maroonblood not long ago you led a rant about the QUANTITY of MT kids MSU was signing. Now you're only wanting QUALITYY? Man you change your thoughts as often as you do your screenname.

This is why I would never bet with you. You are dis-honest, and routinely mis-quote me just to try and discredit me. I have NEVER said that QUANTITY of signees meant anything. In fact, I have stated over and over again that the Cats recruiting superiority had everything to do with them signing the consensus highest ranked Montana kids, like Brekke, and the Bozeman kid whose name I can not remember. Both were ranked #1 coming out of high school. Hauck signed every #1 ranked Montana kid the 7 years he was here. Why can't you admit when the facts are laid out for you?

 

[Atlanta Griz1]

SOOOO ONE person in a state of 1 million said the Griz are being out-recruited by MSU and it's gospel? lol. Wolfman, you're doing it again. You're backtracking. Because on Maroonblood not long ago you led a rant about the QUANTITY of MT kids MSU was signing. Now you're only wanting QUALITYY? Man you change your thoughts as often as you do your screenname.

Maybe the thoughts in his head get band* too





*banned

You're such a big insider, why don't you ask the coaches yourself why they feel that Montana slipped with in-state recruiting the past few years?

 

[grizindabox]

Just spitballin' here....but how many of the top high school football players the past 5-6 years either went FBS or were from Bozeman.....

 

[George Ferguson]

I'll ask. I KNOW they are not going to say MSU is out-recruiting them. And i kno none of them said that to you while golfing at MCC. Talk about dishonest.

 

[Sam A. Blitz]

SOOOO ONE person in a state of 1 million said the Griz are being out-recruited by MSU and it's gospel? lol. Wolfman, you're doing it again. You're backtracking. Because on Maroonblood not long ago you led a rant about the QUANTITY of MT kids MSU was signing. Now you're only wanting QUALITYY? Man you change your thoughts as often as you do your screenname.

This is why I would never bet with you. You are dis-honest, and routinely mis-quote me just to try and discredit me. I have NEVER said that QUANTITY of signees meant anything. In fact, I have stated over and over again that the Cats recruiting superiority had everything to do with them signing the consensus highest ranked Montana kids, like Brekke, and the Bozeman kid whose name I can not remember. Both were ranked #1 coming out of high school. Hauck signed every #1 ranked Montana kid the 7 years he was here. Why can't you admit when the facts are laid out for you?

ranked #1 by who?

 

[grizindabox]

Gatorade Player of the Year
Balue Chapman.....Bozeman....MSU
Andrew Grinde.....CMR...........Yale
Will Dissly............Bozeman.....UW
Gunnar Brekke.....Capital.......MSU
Caleb Kidder........Capital.......UM
Tanner Roderick...Bozeman.....Nevada
Matt Miller..........Capital.......Boise St.

Seems to me that outside of Kidder and Brekke.....odds were against UM....and it probably would have been the same even if your recruiting idol was the HC......

 

[Atlanta Griz1]

I'll ask. I KNOW they are not going to say MSU is out-recruiting them. And i kno none of them said that to you while golfing at MCC. Talk about dishonest.

Keep deluding yourself. I don't have a dishonest bone in my body. you just can't handle the fact that I get info from coaches that you could never get, Mr. Griz insider! :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Atlanta Griz1]

Gatorade Player of the Year
Balue Chapman.....Bozeman....MSU
Andrew Grinde.....CMR...........Yale
Will Dissly............Bozeman.....UW
Gunnar Brekke.....Capital.......MSU
Caleb Kidder........Capital.......UM
Tanner Roderick...Bozeman.....Nevada
Matt Miller..........Capital.......Boise St.

Seems to me that outside of Kidder and Brekke.....odds were against UM....and it probably would have been the same even if your recruiting idol was the HC......

It's not always the Gatorade player. Look, there are very few high school in Montana, so the coaching staffs of both MSU & UM know who the best players are. They know the head coaches of the high schools personally, and it is not hard to rank the top 5 kids in the state. I'm quit sure that, if you had access to the lists from both MSU & UM coaches, their Top 5 would be basically the same.

 

[PlayerRep]

I'll ask. I KNOW they are not going to say MSU is out-recruiting them. And i kno none of them said that to you while golfing at MCC. Talk about dishonest.

Keep deluding yourself. I don't have a dishonest bone in my body. you just can't handle the fact that I get info from coaches that you could never get, Mr. Griz insider! :lol: :lol: :lol:

BS. You are completely dishonest. Have been for years.

Please stop. You get zero good information from coaches. You don't know a single coach. Even when you brush up against a coach, they don't give you good information. Stop lying.

HavGriz has great information and considerable contact with coaches.