Will Cherry one of the greatest PG's griz have ever had???

[mtgrizrule]

I have yet to post my GRIZ/UNC summary. I do want to weigh in Will Cherry though here.

I have said, and posted from the get go, he has NBA defense, quicks, and athleticism. His FT shooting, and perimeter shooting can no longer be considered a weakness. His leadership is exactly what a leader for any team should be. The kid has never been shy no matter the opponent. He always believes he is the best player on the court, and nobody intimidates him. That attitude is becoming contagious to a few of his younger teammates too. Also, he is really developing some deceiving dribbling too. His 1 dribble, stop and pop against UNC left a jock on the court. It was amazing, and he has more tricks up his sleeve, we have yet to see.

At the UNC game, I noticed Jamar, and Henderson getting more and more of Will Cherry's attitude,and believe too. I have seen the evolution of that in Jamar all year, but have to admit, me seeing that kind of edge in Kevin Henderson was an unexpected, and pleasant surprise. I am not sure how often, or how long Henderson can evolve, but it sure was nice to see a hint of it against UNC.

Will Cherry has already convinced me, he will get a shot at the NBA. If shows he can consistently distribute the ball, his stock will rise. Right now, I see him on the verge of being drafted. Proving the ball distributing part of this game, could mean being looked at as top 10 PG in his class, and possible late 1st to early 2nd round draft pick. Lillard is already proven he will be drafted, and Cherry is right on his ass for that kind of respect from the NBA.

As for the ? about greatest GRIZ PG's, I agree with PR. Based on the definition of PG, MRR was never truly the PG for the GRIZ. That emergence was at the NBA level. AS a GRIZ PG, "Cherry is the greatest GRIZ PG ever, and can only build on it."

I have enjoyed watching him, and cannot wait to see what more he can improve on. Will Cherry is truly a special player. After the UNC game, my new GRIZ motto is. "If there is a WILL, there is a way." :thumb: Thank you Will Cherry.

 

[grizzlyjournal]

Well stated, mtgrizrule!

I would add Keron DeShields to that group. He's very close to a breakout.

 

[mtgrizrule]

Well stated, mtgrizrule!

I would add Keron DeShields to that group. He's very close to a breakout.

I am trying to figure out why we are not seeing him. I know he has all that in him, and Coach Tinkle is high on him. I am thinking we will not see much more of him, until next season, after Stockton, and Wood are gone. I hope I am wrong though, because I too am excited about him. :thumb:

 

[PlayerRep]

Jury should still be out....his numbers have not improved this year vs last year. And they should. He should be stepping up big time, and this year he has not. His shooting percentage is a woeful 38.5%, and his assists (as mentioned above are down), as are his steals. Not good numbers I'm afraid.....but he still has a year and half to get back to what we believe he can do.

His numbers have improved significantly this year. His scoring is up a bit. He shooting percentage is actually fine, and is up 4 or so percent. His 3-point percentage is up considerably. His free throw percentage is up about 5 percent. HIs rebounding is up considerably. He leads the conference in steals. You must not be watching the games, as he is playing very well. In my view, he is the straw that stirs the drink for the Griz.

Better go take a look at those numbers again. Although he is very good, and yes I've seen games this year, he has not improved as much as I would like. Lets look at the numbers, and remember this year he doesnt have BQ, so you would hope the numbers would be up much more.

Last year: 14.1 PPG, 3.6 RPG, 4.3 APG, 2.6 SPG, 0.2 BPG, 2.3 TPG, .426 FG%, .729 FT%, .225 3P%
This year: 14.6 PPG, 4.3 RPG, 3.6 APG, 2.1 SPG, 0.2 BPG, 3.2 TPG, .385 FG%, .771 FT%, .368 3P%

Okay so the question was is he one of the greatest Point Guards the Griz have ever had...so by the numbers look at the traditional point guard numbers.

Assists - Down 0.7 PG
Steals - Down 0.5 PG
TOs - Up 0.9 PG
FG% - Down 4.1%
3P% - Up 14.3%

So where has he improved?

Scoring by half a point, and his 3P% is up but that should account for a 2-3 PG increase not just half a point. The numbers are down, and not just a little. And his rebounding.

He needs to step it up and play more consistent, if he is "the person who stirs the drink" or we may be trouble this year, although I believe he probably can do it in conference play, and those numbers will go up, but for now the jury is still out.

edit:
Point to Assist ratio ( 3.28 last yr, 4.05 this year)
Assists to TO ratio (1.87 last yr, 1.13 this year)

The above ratios are not very good for a PG, perhaps SG is better position for him, but we have no other solid options. He simply is not taking care of the basketball as well as he should be.

Okay, let's assess again. Oredigger thought earlier than Cherry had not improved from last year. Oredigger and his coach friends thought Cherry and point guards needed to be evaluated primarily on these point guard stats (and defense). Taking a quick snapshot as of now, it looks like: Cherry's assist to turnover ratio was down from last year (still is), his assists were down from last year (still are), and his turnovers were up from last year (still are), his steals were down from last year (still are but have improved). His assist to turnover is relatively low (as I said before, I believe that's in part due to his attacking more on offense). He's only tied for 2d on the team in assists. Oredigger wouldn't put Cherry in the top 5 UM point guards, yet. Of course, I disagreed, saying Cherry had in fact improved, and that it scoring and shooting improvement more than offset these other point guard stats.

I don't know where Oredigger is on this now, and I don't mean to diss him at all because I like him and he contribute alot of good information and analysis to the board, but since he and I had had this discussion previously and he had provided a very good stat analysis; I thought I'd post using the prior discussion and stats.

I'm guessing that more people now believe that Cherry has in fact improved, and improved greatly. I also assume that most people would think his shooting and scoring improvements, leadership, tenacity and other intangibes, more than offset any dificiencies in point guard stats. Again, this post is not meant to be negative against Oredigger in anyway (but I wanted to bring his good stats forward).

 

[becker2117]

The answer remains: YES!!!

Another great game for Will last night. Once again a litle odd foul trouble early but when ISU closed to 32 - 28 early in second half he took over game for next 2 minutes (39 - 28) and next thing you know we're up 25. Will credited with 3 steals must have had his hands on 10 more balls. This guy is one of the bext defenders I've seen and his improved shooting/scoring is amazing since his freshman year.

Will is the MAN!!

He just goes into BEAST MODE some times and it is a lot of fun to watch!

 

[ordigger]

A few weeks ago as conference season was beginning I stated that Cherry's numbers from a statistical point had not improved, but I also said that going into the conference season I thought those numbers would improve, nice to see they did. Part of the reason was also the increased play making ability of Jamar, who at times has taking the point. In another thread I also stated that I believed Cherry would in the end be one of top 5 best players, but may not even be considered the best on this team. Although there is debate about whether Michael Ray was considered a PG at Montana, I think there is no doubt he played the point at times. I believe in 5 years - based on if they've played the point at all at any time; my top 3 would be.....

1. Michael Ray Richardson
2. Kareem Jamar
3. Will Cherry

Long term I do think Kareem will be considered the better player, he has really turned it on the last 10 games or so, and cant wait to see him the next couple years (assuming he doesnt go off deep end next year, and gets attention like Lilliard this year). We are fortunate to have them both in this backcourt. And Cherry was class last night giving credit to the walk-ons, and bench players for the intensity during practice.

 

[PlayerRep]

A few weeks ago as conference season was beginning I stated that Cherry's numbers from a statistical point had not improved, but I also said that going into the conference season I thought those numbers would improve, nice to see they did. Part of the reason was also the increased play making ability of Jamar, who at times has taking the point. In another thread I also stated that I believed Cherry would in the end be one of top 5 best players, but may not even be considered the best on this team. Although there is debate about whether Michael Ray was considered a PG at Montana, I think there is no doubt he played the point at times. I believe in 5 years - based on if they've played the point at all at any time; my top 3 would be.....

1. Michael Ray Richardson
2. Kareem Jamar
3. Will Cherry

Long term I do think Kareem will be considered the better player, he has really turned it on the last 10 games or so, and cant wait to see him the next couple years (assuming he doesnt go off deep end next year, and gets attention like Lilliard this year). We are fortunate to have them both in this backcourt. And Cherry was class last night giving credit to the walk-ons, and bench players for the intensity during practice.

Actually, of the 3 point guard stats that you thought were so important and listed in early January, Cherry's stats got worse in assists per game and turnovers per game, and improved in steals per game, since that time. Obviously, his assist to turnover ratio also went down.

3.6 APG, 2.1 SPG, 3.2 TPG in early January to: 3.4, 2.6 and 2.8.

Jamar is not a point guard, and I highly doubt he will be the point guard after Cherry graduates. Yes, Jamar plays point on occasion, and played alot in the Cat game in Bozeman.