Will Cherry one of the greatest PG's griz have ever had???

[ordigger]

If you were attending all of the games (and attended them last year), you would have seen that Cherry has improved, and you would have seen him improvement as the season has progressed this year.

As for improvement, which is it? You keep saying he hasn't improved, yet you say this: "he has not improved as much as I would like". That seems to be an admission that he has improved.

As for the stats, he has improved in multiple important stats: scoring, 3-pt shooting percentage, free-throw shooting percentage, and rebounding. Yes, his overall shooting percentage is down a few points, but if you were attending all the games, you would have seen that he is attacking the rim more often (and not just when he has a clear lane to the hoop), taking more jumpers, taking more 3's, and has taken multiple 3's late in games in order to try to mount a comeback. He is forcing the action more (and in my view he should do this even more).

As for assists, he had 59 assists at this point last year, and has 57 this year. As for turnovers, a point guard will have more turnovers if he's attacking the basket more and forcing the action. As for steals, he had way more steals earlier in the season than later in the season. He averaged 3.5 in pre-conference games and 1.6 in conference games. This was probably impacted both by his ankle injury and conference teams being much more aware of his quickness and technique than non-conference teams. Also note that he stepped up his assist to turnover ratio last year in conference play, to 2.4. Hopefully, this will occur again this year.

As others have pointed out, it's probably not as easy to get assists without Qvale in the middle. However, it looks like the team is averaging about the same number of assists this year as they averaged last year.

Read again what I wrote. I dont appreciate the attack on my knowledge, just because I'm not sitting in the stands every game, but watching still. I just posted the numbers, they are down. Accept it.

 

[PlayerRep]

If you were attending all of the games (and attended them last year), you would have seen that Cherry has improved, and you would have seen him improvement as the season has progressed this year.

As for improvement, which is it? You keep saying he hasn't improved, yet you say this: "he has not improved as much as I would like". That seems to be an admission that he has improved.

As for the stats, he has improved in multiple important stats: scoring, 3-pt shooting percentage, free-throw shooting percentage, and rebounding. Yes, his overall shooting percentage is down a few points, but if you were attending all the games, you would have seen that he is attacking the rim more often (and not just when he has a clear lane to the hoop), taking more jumpers, taking more 3's, and has taken multiple 3's late in games in order to try to mount a comeback. He is forcing the action more (and in my view he should do this even more).

As for assists, he had 59 assists at this point last year, and has 57 this year. As for turnovers, a point guard will have more turnovers if he's attacking the basket more and forcing the action. As for steals, he had way more steals earlier in the season than later in the season. He averaged 3.5 in pre-conference games and 1.6 in conference games. This was probably impacted both by his ankle injury and conference teams being much more aware of his quickness and technique than non-conference teams. Also note that he stepped up his assist to turnover ratio last year in conference play, to 2.4. Hopefully, this will occur again this year.

As others have pointed out, it's probably not as easy to get assists without Qvale in the middle. However, it looks like the team is averaging about the same number of assists this year as they averaged last year.

Dont have to attend a game to see a game. Please dont insult me with your attempt at trying to slam actual numbers. Thats all I did. The numbers are down across the board.

Read again what I wrote. I said he was a very good player, and he can do much more. One of the top PG's in Griz history, sure he has a chance but IMO not there yet. As you are well aware, I come from a basketball family, including a Final Four point guard so please dont diss me about my knowledge of the game. I also have numerous friends that are head coaches so again just because I wasnt sitting in the stands doesnt mean I dont understand what I'm watching on the screen.

Nope, you can see and appreciate the game as well if you don't attend. Watching on the internet is not the same.

No one is insulting you. I'm just providing actual numbers that are more important and refute your premise, i.e. that Cherry has not improved. The numbers are not down across the board. They are up for important numbers like scoring, 3-pt scoring, 3-pt shooting percentage, free throw shooting percentage and rebounding. Why can't you admit that? I can admit that he has 2 fewer assists than he had at this point last year, his assist average is down from last year, his turnover average is up from last year, and his steal average is down from last year.

I'm not dissing your basketball knowledge. Just because I disagree with your premise that Cherry has not improved (and I think most knowlegable posters on the board and/or attending games would also disagree with you), and have provided important stats showing Cherry has in fact improved, doesn't mean I'm dissing you. I also come from a family with alot of sports playing and coaching including basketball, including high school and college basketball coaches. Feel free to ask your family final four point guard and your basketball coach friends, if they can evaluate a game and player as well on the internet as they can by attending games in person.

Here are some more stats showing improvement. In the last 5 games, Cherry is averaging 16.4, shooting 44% from 3-pt range, averaging 3.3 steals, shooting 79.5% from the free throw line, and averaging 5.4 rebounds. This includes his poor game against UVS, in which he scored only 7, was 0-5 from 3-range, and had 1 rebound.

 

[Agent G]

There are a couple factors that really haven't been discussed here:

1) Because of his success last year he's getting more attention this year from opposing teams. They also know about his defense and ability to steal the ball so they're probably more careful knowing what he can do. Some of his stats probably have been affected by this.

2) Stats are just stats and are important to an extent. From what I've seen, he's been the primary clutch performer down the stretch in games and often hits big shots when they need them the most. Many players will never have this ability. He seems to want the ball in those situations and can get it done. With Qvale gone, that aspect is even more important for him and the Griz this year. A couple other players on the team have shown signs of this but Cherry has been the most consistent. He may have terrible stats for a particular game but if he makes the big play at the big time to seal a win that's huge.

I agree that he could get more assists. With his ability to penetrate and score, defenses need to stay honest and there should be plenty of opportunities for other guys if he finds them at the right place & right time more often.

 

[ordigger]

If you were attending all of the games (and attended them last year), you would have seen that Cherry has improved, and you would have seen him improvement as the season has progressed this year.

As for improvement, which is it? You keep saying he hasn't improved, yet you say this: "he has not improved as much as I would like". That seems to be an admission that he has improved.

As for the stats, he has improved in multiple important stats: scoring, 3-pt shooting percentage, free-throw shooting percentage, and rebounding. Yes, his overall shooting percentage is down a few points, but if you were attending all the games, you would have seen that he is attacking the rim more often (and not just when he has a clear lane to the hoop), taking more jumpers, taking more 3's, and has taken multiple 3's late in games in order to try to mount a comeback. He is forcing the action more (and in my view he should do this even more).

As for assists, he had 59 assists at this point last year, and has 57 this year. As for turnovers, a point guard will have more turnovers if he's attacking the basket more and forcing the action. As for steals, he had way more steals earlier in the season than later in the season. He averaged 3.5 in pre-conference games and 1.6 in conference games. This was probably impacted both by his ankle injury and conference teams being much more aware of his quickness and technique than non-conference teams. Also note that he stepped up his assist to turnover ratio last year in conference play, to 2.4. Hopefully, this will occur again this year.

As others have pointed out, it's probably not as easy to get assists without Qvale in the middle. However, it looks like the team is averaging about the same number of assists this year as they averaged last year.

Dont have to attend a game to see a game. Please dont insult me with your attempt at trying to slam actual numbers. Thats all I did. The numbers are down across the board.

Read again what I wrote. I said he was a very good player, and he can do much more. One of the top PG's in Griz history, sure he has a chance but IMO not there yet. As you are well aware, I come from a basketball family, including a Final Four point guard so please dont diss me about my knowledge of the game. I also have numerous friends that are head coaches so again just because I wasnt sitting in the stands doesnt mean I dont understand what I'm watching on the screen.

Nope, you can see and appreciate the game as well if you don't attend. Watching on the internet is not the same.

No one is insulting you. I'm just providing actual numbers that are more important and refute your premise, i.e. that Cherry has not improved. The numbers are not down across the board. They are up for important numbers like scoring, 3-pt scoring, 3-pt shooting percentage, free throw shooting percentage and rebounding. Why can't you admit that? I can admit that he has 2 fewer assists than he had at this point last year, his assist average is down from last year, his turnover average is up from last year, and his steal average is down from last year.

I'm not dissing your basketball knowledge. Just because I disagree with your premise that Cherry has not improved (and I think most knowlegable posters on the board and/or attending games would also disagree with you), and have provided important stats showing Cherry has in fact improved, doesn't mean I'm dissing you. I also come from a family with alot of sports playing and coaching including basketball, including high school and college basketball coaches. Feel free to ask your family final four point guard and your basketball coach friends, if they can evaluate a game and player as well on the internet as they can by attending games in person.

Here are some more stats showing improvement. In the last 5 games, Cherry is averaging 16.4, shooting 44% from 3-pt range, averaging 3.3 steals, shooting 79.5% from the free throw line, and averaging 5.4 rebounds. This includes his poor game against UVS, in which he scored only 7, was 0-5 from 3-range, and had 1 rebound.

I took your advice. Never laughed so hard in my life. One coach, said you should find another sport to follow, he suggested football, which was funny as heck. The other said that as a coach he wants his point guard on offensive end 1) Involve the team, 2) Take care of the basketball 3) Score when needed. On defensive end he wants his point guard to provide the spark and intensity. And he said that video can tell you a lot also vs watching a game live. I did not actually expect answers so quick, especially with season underway.

So once again, the POINT GUARD numbers are down. Does this mean he is not good? Does this mean that numbers are the be all that ends all? Of course not, I said he my original post he is VERY GOOD, go look. I also said he was capable of playing much better, and most seem to agree here mainly pointing out his inconsistent play. He is improved obviously in 3P% and FT%, but from a numerical POINT GUARD stats he has not (ie Assists, TOs, Steals, shooting percent, etc).

I do believe that conference play will help raise those numbers, as the season goes on. I'm not dissing the guy but I would not put him in my top 5 all-time Griz PGs yet, but once he is done.....yeah I probably will, but if you had read what I wrote instead of skimming a few lines, you'd notice that.

I wont be back to this thread, generally I do not go back to threads just to avoid these types of silly battles.

 

[AllWeatherFan]

Besides Michael Ray, tell me nine other UM point guards who had better careers than Cherry will have after next season is over. Okay then, just name five. Or should we wait until March 2013 to have this discussion?

 

[PlayerRep]

If you were attending all of the games (and attended them last year), you would have seen that Cherry has improved, and you would have seen him improvement as the season has progressed this year.

As for improvement, which is it? You keep saying he hasn't improved, yet you say this: "he has not improved as much as I would like". That seems to be an admission that he has improved.

As for the stats, he has improved in multiple important stats: scoring, 3-pt shooting percentage, free-throw shooting percentage, and rebounding. Yes, his overall shooting percentage is down a few points, but if you were attending all the games, you would have seen that he is attacking the rim more often (and not just when he has a clear lane to the hoop), taking more jumpers, taking more 3's, and has taken multiple 3's late in games in order to try to mount a comeback. He is forcing the action more (and in my view he should do this even more).

As for assists, he had 59 assists at this point last year, and has 57 this year. As for turnovers, a point guard will have more turnovers if he's attacking the basket more and forcing the action. As for steals, he had way more steals earlier in the season than later in the season. He averaged 3.5 in pre-conference games and 1.6 in conference games. This was probably impacted both by his ankle injury and conference teams being much more aware of his quickness and technique than non-conference teams. Also note that he stepped up his assist to turnover ratio last year in conference play, to 2.4. Hopefully, this will occur again this year.

As others have pointed out, it's probably not as easy to get assists without Qvale in the middle. However, it looks like the team is averaging about the same number of assists this year as they averaged last year.

Dont have to attend a game to see a game. Please dont insult me with your attempt at trying to slam actual numbers. Thats all I did. The numbers are down across the board.

Read again what I wrote. I said he was a very good player, and he can do much more. One of the top PG's in Griz history, sure he has a chance but IMO not there yet. As you are well aware, I come from a basketball family, including a Final Four point guard so please dont diss me about my knowledge of the game. I also have numerous friends that are head coaches so again just because I wasnt sitting in the stands doesnt mean I dont understand what I'm watching on the screen.

Nope, you can see and appreciate the game as well if you don't attend. Watching on the internet is not the same.

No one is insulting you. I'm just providing actual numbers that are more important and refute your premise, i.e. that Cherry has not improved. The numbers are not down across the board. They are up for important numbers like scoring, 3-pt scoring, 3-pt shooting percentage, free throw shooting percentage and rebounding. Why can't you admit that? I can admit that he has 2 fewer assists than he had at this point last year, his assist average is down from last year, his turnover average is up from last year, and his steal average is down from last year.

I'm not dissing your basketball knowledge. Just because I disagree with your premise that Cherry has not improved (and I think most knowlegable posters on the board and/or attending games would also disagree with you), and have provided important stats showing Cherry has in fact improved, doesn't mean I'm dissing you. I also come from a family with alot of sports playing and coaching including basketball, including high school and college basketball coaches. Feel free to ask your family final four point guard and your basketball coach friends, if they can evaluate a game and player as well on the internet as they can by attending games in person.

Here are some more stats showing improvement. In the last 5 games, Cherry is averaging 16.4, shooting 44% from 3-pt range, averaging 3.3 steals, shooting 79.5% from the free throw line, and averaging 5.4 rebounds. This includes his poor game against UVS, in which he scored only 7, was 0-5 from 3-range, and had 1 rebound.

I took your advice. Never laughed so hard in my life. One coach, said you should find another sport to follow, he suggested football, which was funny as heck. The other said that as a coach he wants his point guard on offensive end 1) Involve the team, 2) Take care of the basketball 3) Score when needed. On defensive end he wants his point guard to provide the spark and intensity. And he said that video can tell you a lot also vs watching a game live. I did not actually expect answers so quick, especially with season underway.

So once again, the POINT GUARD numbers are down. Does this mean he is not good? Does this mean that numbers are the be all that ends all? Of course not, I said he my original post he is VERY GOOD, go look. I also said he was capable of playing much better, and most seem to agree here mainly pointing out his inconsistent play. He is improved obviously in 3P% and FT%, but from a numerical POINT GUARD stats he has not (ie Assists, TOs, Steals, shooting percent, etc).

I do believe that conference play will help raise those numbers, as the season goes on. I'm not dissing the guy but I would not put him in my top 5 all-time Griz PGs yet, but once he is done.....yeah I probably will, but if you had read what I wrote instead of skimming a few lines, you'd notice that.

I wont be back to this thread, generally I do not go back to threads just to avoid these types of silly battles.

Looks like your coach friends, who obviously don't attend the games or know anything about Cherry, know less about Cherry than you do. Cherry's role on this team is more than your coach friends' generic point guard. He is expected to score and makes things happen. It's what I've been saying all along. Neither you nor your supposed coach friends can evaluate Cherry and his role and improvement, without watching the games. You and your coach friends might want to talk to the Griz coaches. That's where I get some of my info. Let us know if your supposed coach friends think the Griz coaches don't know what they're talking about.

 

[Mousegriz]

ORdigger and PR......get a life! This is a yes/no question and the answer is YES!!!

 

[PlayerRep]

Besides Michael Ray, tell me nine other UM point guards who had better careers than Cherry will have after next season is over. Okay then, just name five. Or should we wait until March 2013 to have this discussion?

I suppose we'll have a wait a bit, but I believe will be one of the two best point guards ever at UM.

 

[mtgrizrule]

These kind of debates belong in the football forum. Seriously, for the most part basketball forum is so much more mellow, and for the most part, in control. As a GRIZ, I think Cherry is the best. MRR was more of a point forward, a lot of his GRIZ career. Maybe some of the older GRIZ fans can give more specifics of MRR's position he played as a GRIZ. MRR's PG fame came in the NBA.

 

[LittletonGriz]

MRR played the off guard and small forward for the Griz. Jim Malloy was the point MRRs senior year. Tom Peck was the point hi Freshman year. I cannot recall who was the point the other two years. I believe MRR played small forward a lot his soph an junior seasons. The Griz may have one more if he had played the point. I believe he never officially played the point even though he really played every position on the floor.

 

[Mousegriz]

The answer remains: YES!!!

Another great game for Will last night. Once again a litle odd foul trouble early but when ISU closed to 32 - 28 early in second half he took over game for next 2 minutes (39 - 28) and next thing you know we're up 25. Will credited with 3 steals must have had his hands on 10 more balls. This guy is one of the bext defenders I've seen and his improved shooting/scoring is amazing since his freshman year.

Will is the MAN!!

 

[DuCharme]

To answer the question of the thread, I say its a resounding "Yes!".

"one of"... not "the best".... absolutely.

It's not like the list is long at Montana.

 

[grizzlyjournal]

The good ones have an internal, residual toughness that can't ordinarily be seen in normal play, but flashes occasionally at critical junctures. It's still early in Will's Griz career... but perhaps we'll see what he's made of over the remainder of this year.

And then all of next year, of course.

He's already in my top five. All he can do is move up.

 

[PlayerRep]

The good ones have an internal, residual toughness that can't ordinarily be seen in normal play, but flashes occasionally at critical junctures. It's still early in Will's Griz career... but perhaps we'll see what he's made of over the remainder of this year.

And then all of next year, of course.

He's already in my top five. All he can do is move up.

Top 5 of what. He's the best point guard to ever play at UM, in my view.

 

[mtgrizrule]

I just got home from the game. I am too tired to put a summary in tonight, but stay tuned to egriz over the weekend. Mr Cherry will be mentioned BIGTIME!!!!!

 

[grizatwork]

I say yes. I think you will really be able to appreciate what he has done for this team the year after he has used his eligibility. Best improvement in his game from his freshman year? Shooting without a doubt. He is now a threat to score from anywhere if you back off to avoid penetration. His free throws are so much better too. At the end of a game with the lead, you now want the ball in his hands.

 

[Gallatin Griz]

30 points and 8 steals last night. Amazing! I am very glad we get him for 1 more season and yes we will greatly miss his skills after he graduates.

Go Griz!

Keep Maulin'em!

 

[1976griz]

I was in attendance at every game played in Missoula in Michael Ray's years...and he was really good. I was there before people started noticing...and I had to start coming earlier and earlier to get my student seat. It was lots of fun to have a player of that caliber...and I was very disappointed when he threw his great opportunity away. My guess is if Will Cherry was as good as Michael Ray...tickets would be hotter than FB tickets. That "almost" win over UCLA was amazing and UCLA was in its prime time.

 

['68griz]

My guess is if Will Cherry was as good as Michael Ray...tickets would be hotter than FB tickets. That "almost" win over UCLA was amazing and UCLA was in its prime time.

I too saw MRR play many times, and he was terrific. I've seen WC many fewer times, and I think he may be ultimately remembered in the same sentence. The fact that crowds are not swarming to see this year's Griz has, IMO, virtually nothing to do with star players. It has to do with the fact that Missoula has become a football town, and, back in Richardson's day, it was a basketball town. I don't think an undefeated basketball team would make much difference....

 

[BelierPeaux]

Cherry is quickly moving up many lists. It's great to see. As much as we miss Qvale, it's amazing that Will's a Junior with a handful of games left in this season still and he just passed what Qvale did in four years. Pretty fantastic for a guy who came to Missoula without much of a jump shot.

Cherry moved past ISU's Jim Rhode and into 10th place on the league's all-time steals list with 201. He's now just 14 off the UM school record set by JR Camel (1995-98). ... Cherry's 30 points gave him 1,065 for his career, moving him past Jeremy Lake (1,036 from 1991-95), Mike Warhank (1,046 from 1996-2000), Brian Qvale (1,046 from 2007-11) and Roger Fasting (1,047 from 1987-92) and into 20th on the all-time list. He's just five behind No. 19 Scott Zanon (1983-87) and six behind No. 18 Craig Zanon (1977-81).

Read more: http://missoulian.com/college/griz/griz-beat-northern-colorado/article_608fa7ae-5392-11e1-a4be-001871e3ce6c.html#ixzz1m2Xm5gIr" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;