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Will Cherry one of the greatest PG's griz have ever had???
- Thread starter Chief
- Start date
Do some reserach kiddo, you're dating yourself.
Look up Micheal Ray Richardson, 4th pick overall in the NBA draft, point guard for the Griz.
Cherry might be the best "modern" point guard this team has had in a long time but not the best. And no, I'm too young as well to have ever seen MRR, but based on what I've read and been told by many other people, he's the single best Griz hoops player ever, hands down.
Look up Micheal Ray Richardson, 4th pick overall in the NBA draft, point guard for the Griz.
Cherry might be the best "modern" point guard this team has had in a long time but not the best. And no, I'm too young as well to have ever seen MRR, but based on what I've read and been told by many other people, he's the single best Griz hoops player ever, hands down.
I agree that Cherry will be one of the best point guards in Griz BB history, especially if his game becomes more consistent. Yet, BWahlberg's comments about Michael Ray ring true and I doubt if we will ever see the likes of him again. Unlike BW, I saw most of MRR's games and was truly amazed at his skill level. He was one of the first big (6'5") point guards in the nation with uunbelievable ball handling ability, along with outside shooting range. Perhaps to gain a sense of MRR's basketball place in history, one should consider Jud Heathcoat's comment that he was a better basketball player than Magic Johnson. Heathcoat coached both of them.
Potomac Griz
Well-known member
Definitely one of the best I've seen play PG for the Griz. He had another great (AJ) that he got to learn from too. Didn't AJ say something about how Cherry would be one of the best ever? Seem to remember that being said at some point.
Every game you just know Cherry has the potential of taking the game over. We got to see that even when he was a freshman. The game @NAU where both Cherry and AJ were unstoppable. Cherry had 19 points, 7 rebounds, and 5 steals. AJ had 28 points, 4 rebounds and 3 steals. The Griz won in Flagstaff 84-64.
Every game you just know Cherry has the potential of taking the game over. We got to see that even when he was a freshman. The game @NAU where both Cherry and AJ were unstoppable. Cherry had 19 points, 7 rebounds, and 5 steals. AJ had 28 points, 4 rebounds and 3 steals. The Griz won in Flagstaff 84-64.
Potomac Griz
Well-known member
crackgina said:
One problem I see with him feeding the post is we really don't have a true post player that gets quality minutes right now. Ward is more of a threat for a mid range jumper, but can post up too (but gets blocked a lot if it's against a much bigger post). Selvig is more content to be an outside threat and not an inside threat. Reader and Hutch are the two that are pure posts. Unfortunately Reader is ineligible, and Hutch is kind of raw offensively still.
He was at 4.3 assists per game last year, and 3.6 right now. Losing a true post threat like Qvale is probably part of the reason for that stat declining.
The past couple of games we've seen the Griz offense move away from pounding the ball inside as much as we did earlier in the season. I think that's a good thing actually. Doing that uses our strengths better, which are our guards, and mid/long range jumpers from the post players. Once Reader is back, I'm guessing we'll try to pound it into the post a little more, since he is more of the typical true post player.
Chief asked if he'd be one of the best ever and the answer is yes.
Yep - and damn fun to watch, at times you just know he is going to make points one way or another layup or (at the line)! You can just see it on his face. I am going to get my points and you are not going to stop me! In watching Michael Ray Richardson & Cherry - they both had have that same Swagger. Look out cause here I come! Both were and are great fun to watch!
Jury should still be out....his numbers have not improved this year vs last year. And they should. He should be stepping up big time, and this year he has not. His shooting percentage is a woeful 38.5%, and his assists (as mentioned above are down), as are his steals. Not good numbers I'm afraid.....but he still has a year and half to get back to what we believe he can do.
Grizmayor
Well-known member
Kind of what I was wondering... but seeing MRR throw a 3/4 court bounce pass splitting two defenders for an easy fastbreak lay-in is one of my coolest memories from high school. MRR was unstoppable (thru a teenager's eyes)... Cherry can be defended. He's got another year to work on the game-to-game consistancy, but still one of the Top-5 PG's in Griz annals.citay said:
ordigger said:
His numbers have improved significantly this year. His scoring is up a bit. He shooting percentage is actually fine, and is up 4 or so percent. His 3-point percentage is up considerably. His free throw percentage is up about 5 percent. HIs rebounding is up considerably. He leads the conference in steals. You must not be watching the games, as he is playing very well. In my view, he is the straw that stirs the drink for the Griz.
Cherry, IMO definitely one of the best when he is on. A bit inconsistent. Same with MRR-He was the best, but could also be inconsistent or we could have won he BSC championship every year. I was in college when MRR was here and I loved watching MRR more than any other player I can think of. He could just flat out take a game over and win it, no matter what the other team was doing.
mtgrizrule
Well-known member
Like any player, Will has his strengths, and weaknesses. I agree he is inconsistent with his perimeter shooting, but that is common for Point guards.
It is nice to know as his teammate, coach, or a fan, that game in, game out he will outright dominate defensively, be a leader, and be willing to do whatever is needed to win. The kid is not afraid of any team,or any player, and he could care less who he is playing against. The 1st time I seen him play live, he sold me on his leadership, and defense. As a Freshman, he had NBA defensive tools, and leadership within him. Fortunately, he had AJ to teach him to use his leadership skills.
He also has a work ethic, and attitude to be best he can be. He was knocked for his FT shooting, he is now a very good FT shooter, and his form actually is a lot improved. He was knocked for his perimeter game being bad, well it is to the point where opponents cannot just let him shoot anymore, and he a solid shooter now, and will only get better. At one point, I posted he is capable of being amongst the nation's leaders in steals, and he has become that.
Speaking of steals, considering he no longer has the luxury of gambling as much, without Qvale back there, his numbers are damn impressive. Give him a consistent paint defender, and his numbers go up, as would Steward, Jamar, Deshields, etc. Without Qvale back there, he has to be a lot more selective when, and how to pick his steals. He is also a phenomenal off the ball defender too. He is a great rebounding point guard, and he has to be with our inconsistent paint player this year. I challenge anyone to see how many times he is the mix battling for a rebound, and getting his hands on balls in the paint. He is on, or near the ball most every defensive stand.
He will continue to develop, and improve his game. I will not be surprised if his 3 pt shot gets in the upper 30% as a SR. He is good for 80% at the line. The one thing he can really work on still does not show up on the stat sheets, but he needs to develop his ability to make his teammates better with ball distribution. He outright dominates games when he goes to the hole, the problem is, he does not do it all the time, and he is capable of doing it every trip down the court. I have no doubt, he is capable of being that kind of PG, and if he becomes that, he increases his NBA chances a lot. He is a clutch big time defender already. Can he become that on the offensive side? I sure hope so because he is better than even he knows he is, and that would be huge for the GRIZ too.
Please, Will, Trust me on this. I have ZERO doubt in your abilities. In the meantime, I will continue to enjoy every minute of your time as a GRIZ!!!
It is nice to know as his teammate, coach, or a fan, that game in, game out he will outright dominate defensively, be a leader, and be willing to do whatever is needed to win. The kid is not afraid of any team,or any player, and he could care less who he is playing against. The 1st time I seen him play live, he sold me on his leadership, and defense. As a Freshman, he had NBA defensive tools, and leadership within him. Fortunately, he had AJ to teach him to use his leadership skills.
He also has a work ethic, and attitude to be best he can be. He was knocked for his FT shooting, he is now a very good FT shooter, and his form actually is a lot improved. He was knocked for his perimeter game being bad, well it is to the point where opponents cannot just let him shoot anymore, and he a solid shooter now, and will only get better. At one point, I posted he is capable of being amongst the nation's leaders in steals, and he has become that.
Speaking of steals, considering he no longer has the luxury of gambling as much, without Qvale back there, his numbers are damn impressive. Give him a consistent paint defender, and his numbers go up, as would Steward, Jamar, Deshields, etc. Without Qvale back there, he has to be a lot more selective when, and how to pick his steals. He is also a phenomenal off the ball defender too. He is a great rebounding point guard, and he has to be with our inconsistent paint player this year. I challenge anyone to see how many times he is the mix battling for a rebound, and getting his hands on balls in the paint. He is on, or near the ball most every defensive stand.
He will continue to develop, and improve his game. I will not be surprised if his 3 pt shot gets in the upper 30% as a SR. He is good for 80% at the line. The one thing he can really work on still does not show up on the stat sheets, but he needs to develop his ability to make his teammates better with ball distribution. He outright dominates games when he goes to the hole, the problem is, he does not do it all the time, and he is capable of doing it every trip down the court. I have no doubt, he is capable of being that kind of PG, and if he becomes that, he increases his NBA chances a lot. He is a clutch big time defender already. Can he become that on the offensive side? I sure hope so because he is better than even he knows he is, and that would be huge for the GRIZ too.
Please, Will, Trust me on this. I have ZERO doubt in your abilities. In the meantime, I will continue to enjoy every minute of your time as a GRIZ!!!
Good summary, MGR. Agreed. He is already shooting 37% from 3-pt range this year. In the last 5 games, he is 44% from 3-pt range, including 0-5 in the UVS game. Has taken 5 3's in each of the last 5 games. As I said earlier, he is the straw that stirs the drink, at least in most games.
PlayerRep said:
Better go take a look at those numbers again. Although he is very good, and yes I've seen games this year, he has not improved as much as I would like. Lets look at the numbers, and remember this year he doesnt have BQ, so you would hope the numbers would be up much more.
Last year: 14.1 PPG, 3.6 RPG, 4.3 APG, 2.6 SPG, 0.2 BPG, 2.3 TPG, .426 FG%, .729 FT%, .225 3P%
This year: 14.6 PPG, 4.3 RPG, 3.6 APG, 2.1 SPG, 0.2 BPG, 3.2 TPG, .385 FG%, .771 FT%, .368 3P%
Okay so the question was is he one of the greatest Point Guards the Griz have ever had...so by the numbers look at the traditional point guard numbers.
Assists - Down 0.7 PG
Steals - Down 0.5 PG
TOs - Up 0.9 PG
FG% - Down 4.1%
3P% - Up 14.3%
So where has he improved?
Scoring by half a point, and his 3P% is up but that should account for a 2-3 PG increase not just half a point. The numbers are down, and not just a little. And his rebounding.
He needs to step it up and play more consistent, if he is "the person who stirs the drink" or we may be trouble this year, although I believe he probably can do it in conference play, and those numbers will go up, but for now the jury is still out.
edit:
Point to Assist ratio ( 3.28 last yr, 4.05 this year)
Assists to TO ratio (1.87 last yr, 1.13 this year)
The above ratios are not very good for a PG, perhaps SG is better position for him, but we have no other solid options. He simply is not taking care of the basketball as well as he should be.
ordigger said:
If you were attending all of the games (and attended them last year), you would have seen that Cherry has improved, and you would have seen him improvement as the season has progressed this year.
As for improvement, which is it? You keep saying he hasn't improved, yet you say this: "he has not improved as much as I would like". That seems to be an admission that he has improved.
As for the stats, he has improved in multiple important stats: scoring, 3-pt shooting percentage, free-throw shooting percentage, and rebounding. Yes, his overall shooting percentage is down a few points, but if you were attending all the games, you would have seen that he is attacking the rim more often (and not just when he has a clear lane to the hoop), taking more jumpers, taking more 3's, and has taken multiple 3's late in games in order to try to mount a comeback. He is forcing the action more (and in my view he should do this even more).
As for assists, he had 59 assists at this point last year, and has 57 this year. As for turnovers, a point guard will have more turnovers if he's attacking the basket more and forcing the action. As for steals, he had way more steals earlier in the season than later in the season. He averaged 3.5 in pre-conference games and 1.6 in conference games. This was probably impacted both by his ankle injury and conference teams being much more aware of his quickness and technique than non-conference teams. Also note that he stepped up his assist to turnover ratio last year in conference play, to 2.4. Hopefully, this will occur again this year.
As others have pointed out, it's probably not as easy to get assists without Qvale in the middle. However, it looks like the team is averaging about the same number of assists this year as they averaged last year.
