Why should college athletes be held to higher standards than others?

[GrizLA]

I am not sure they are really held to a higher standard. I know many people that would lose their job if they got a DUI. I think the difference is athletes are more visible than the average student, they agree to a code of conduct with the school, and they represent the school when they put on the jersey. IMO, everyone should be held to a higher standard when it comes to DUI, and my stomach turns every time I hear about someone getting arrested for their 5th or 6th or 7th DUI.

Why don't you name the jobs/organizations which end when an employee gets a dui. Curious. I don't know many at all. No one in our organization of over a 1,000 were get fired for a dui.

I had a neighbor in Cali that lost their position at a med school for exactly that. And, I know of a major engineering group that has firm guidelines that are adhered to. If not they are politely shown the door.

Name the engineering group, and I will see if what you are saying is correct.

How about USC med school? Young woman OD's when with the older dean in his hotel room, and meth is found in the room, this gets reported to the school, and the deans stays on the payroll, keeps seeing patients, and keeps representing the school. School keeps getting contacted by the LA Times for a year, and nothing changes with the dean.

I no longer have interest in that USC, sorry. And, you being such a sleuth, find out which of the two major engineering groups point you to the door for a DUI...you can do it. I am beginning to think you a person that is not highethically inclined.

 

[Quig]

"I was talking to Ian. Jesus, I forgot I tried to drown that dude in the mud. Christ, I literally tried to drown a guy in the mud, Andy.
It was a fun assignment i gave myself.
Then I'd forget. I'd forget the fun.
It was the next team, if he'd let me drown him, I'd do it."

.......Me to myself and Saldana . Playing Southern California football. La Salle hs. Pasadena, 2007.

 

[SoldierGriz]

I am not sure they are really held to a higher standard. I know many people that would lose their job if they got a DUI. I think the difference is athletes are more visible than the average student, they agree to a code of conduct with the school, and they represent the school when they put on the jersey. IMO, everyone should be held to a higher standard when it comes to DUI, and my stomach turns every time I hear about someone getting arrested for their 5th or 6th or 7th DUI.

Why don't you name the jobs/organizations which end when an employee gets a dui. Curious. I don't know many at all. No one in our organization of over a 1,000 were get fired for a dui.

People that drive for a living. I know of a few police officers that got canned. Bottom line is DUI is illegal, and I have zero issue with a college football player being punished with missed games and numerous sprints in practice.

DUIs end many Army careers...

 

[PlayerRep]

This is the correct answer.

Don't agree, but I agree with your consistency.

Maybe the answer is that the press and internet should not be focusing so much attention on athletes. I'm just using your outside the box thinking. Just don't see any reason for college athletes to get crucified like they do now.

I don't see it as being "crucified". As for attention on athletes, everyone on eGriz, everyone that buys tickets are guilty of this. They get the attention if they score 3 touchdowns just like if they get a DUI. You can't it one way without the other.

Sure you can. Scoring td's is not the same as getting in trouble. What about all the guys who dont score td's, get any press, or play much. They get crucified too.

 

[PlayerRep]

Why don't you name the jobs/organizations which end when an employee gets a dui. Curious. I don't know many at all. No one in our organization of over a 1,000 were get fired for a dui.

I had a neighbor in Cali that lost their position at a med school for exactly that. And, I know of a major engineering group that has firm guidelines that are adhered to. If not they are politely shown the door.

Name the engineering group, and I will see if what you are saying is correct.

How about USC med school? Young woman OD's when with the older dean in his hotel room, and meth is found in the room, this gets reported to the school, and the deans stays on the payroll, keeps seeing patients, and keeps representing the school. School keeps getting contacted by the LA Times for a year, and nothing changes with the dean.

I no longer have interest in that USC, sorry. And, you being such a sleuth, find out which of the two major engineering groups point you to the door for a DUI...you can do it. I am beginning to think you a person that is not highethically inclined.

I am beginning to think that you won't say the name of the engineering firm because you made up what you said.

 

[PlayerRep]

Why does that mean that the players should get crucified for misdemeanors? Why does that mean that some fans say they should be dropped from the team if they get a dui?

I know that being in the public eye and getting more press and more attention leads to more scrutiny. But I don't get the higher standard stuff. I hope you are not saying that standards of conduct should be based on how much attention or publicity that someone gets. Football gets much more attention than cross country or band, so they standards of conduct should be higher for the football team? You've got to be kidding.

No one is getting crucified. It would seem that people have different feeling about the severity of DUI. I am not saying standards should be based on the publicity, but publicity brings out the different view points on the crime, and football is more visible than cross country or band but the code of conduct should be the same. Are you implying that they are not at the University of Montana?

I still think that football and basketball players get crucified. I agree with the most of the rest of what you said. I don't know what the standards/rules are for band. I know the spirit squad had a code of conduct, but I couldn't find it online. A dancer friend said they had a code, but she didn't know what it said on duo's because no dancer had gotten one in recent years. What about students in the Davidson Honors college? In the various other organizations on campus?

 

[PlayerRep]

Doesn't look like a dui in the military usually leads to getting kicked out of military.

"Punishments under the Uniform Code of Military Justice

Learn

more about military area defense counsel services.

Punitive actions under the Uniform Code of Military Justice are possible if civilian authorities do not prosecute you. Although you cannot be charged for the same incident on and off the installation, you can still be punished under the code for misconduct and other lesser offenses as a result of the off-installation DUI. Military punitive actions may include:

Judicial punishment (court-martial) — If you are stopped on the installation, or the civilian authorities are not prosecuting you, you can receive a court-martial under Article 111 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Punishments can include loss of pay, reduction in grade, confinement and dismissal from the military.
Nonjudicial punishment — Commanding officers can levy nonjudicial punishment for minor disciplinary offenses under Article 15 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Under nonjudicial punishment, commanding officers can punish you through an official reprimand, extra duty, restriction to limits, forfeiture of pay and reduction of grade.

Regardless of whether you are being charged by civilian authorities or receiving Uniform Code of Military Justice action, your commanding officer can take administrative actions against you including any of the following:

Letter of reprimand — A letter of reprimand is a formal document that details your wrongful actions and the punishment that can be expected. Although less severe than a court-martial, it can be career-ending, as the letter remains in your record.
Revocation of pass privileges — Your commander can revoke your ability to go on leave.
Mandatory referral to a substance abuse treatment program — Your commander can mandate that you enroll in and complete a substance abuse treatment program.
Corrective training — Your commander may require corrective training if he or she believes you would benefit from additional instruction.
Administrative reduction in grade — Depending on your situation and your rank, your commander can reduce your grade.
Bar to re-enlistment — A bar to re-enlistment is a procedure that commanders may use to deny you the opportunity to re-enlist after your current service is complete."

http://www.militaryonesource.mil/financial-and-legal/legal-issues?content_id=281442

 

[EverettGriz]

There are many, many reasons. I'll list just two:

(1) because it is a privilege to represent the University of Montana, and before you earn the honor of doning a uniform that says "Montana" on the front, you make a commitment that you will not do anything to harm that brand. Part of sports is teaching about honoring one's commitments, and that there are consequences to one's actions.

(2) for precisely the same reason that you do not brag incessantly about having chess club members at your cabin.

 

[Ursus1]

There are many, many reasons. I'll list just two:

(1) because it is a privilege to represent the University of Montana, and before you earn the honor of doning a uniform that says "Montana" on the front, you make a commitment that you will not do anything to harm that brand. Part of sports is teaching about honoring one's commitments, and that there are consequences to one's actions.

(2) for precisely the same reason that you do not brag incessantly about having chess club members at your cabin.

I am glad someone else sees it as a privilage to wear Montana on their jersey contrary to PR.

 

[UMGriz75]

There are many, many reasons. (1) because it is a privilege to represent the University of Montana, and before you earn the honor of doning a uniform that says "Montana" on the front, you make a commitment that you will not do anything to harm that brand. Part of sports is teaching about honoring one's commitments, and that there are consequences to one's actions.

[img]https://s4.postimg.org/xw8nsihul/University_System_Enrollment.jpg[/img]

"Harming the brand?"

No one has "harmed the brand" more than Royce Engstrom. It is an old saying in business and bureaucracy that "everyone rises to the level of his own incompetence." UM had 20 years of sustained, healthy growth under George Dennison; it was without question the lead institution in Montana, and George was quite proud of that fact, always referring to UM as "The University of Montana," resurrecting the "The" which was, in fact, part of the original charter.

Royce Engstrom was an accident. There were three finalists when George retired, but then two withdrew, leaving just Royce -- then the campus Provost -- as the default. He got the job without competition. Then the troubles began. Determined to prove he was his "own man," he changed the logo to the infamous "wet noodle" design which was generally met with derision. UM was no long "The University of Montana," it was merely "University of Montana."

Determined to move decisively against a "rape epidemic" that didn't exist, he hired retired judge Diane Barz, who had never done anything like that in her life. She got paid $160 an hour to do a "report" on the problem. She wandered around campus for a few weeks, complaining that no one was telling her what she wanted to hear. Her "Final Report" was something of a dud, but Engstrom acted decisively, firing the athletic director and the football coach. Since the two of them had been among the most proactive of officials in educating student athletes and in imposing discipline, their firings were something of a mystery. Engstrom reportedly wouldn't look them in the eye when he fired them. He stared as his shoes.

At that point, the fiasco descended into parody. The radical Department of Justice, under dedicated Leftist Tom Perez, did an investigation. UM was forced to agree to all sorts of transgressions and rules; Engstrom simply rolled over and agreed. He was not a fighter, and he refused to defend the Univerity of Montana. Later, when faculty and students complained that, among the onerous requirements agreed to by Engstrom was an annual written report to DOJ of students and faculty that had failed to meet the "re-education" seminar requirements.

When the Montana Kaimin asked Engstrom about that reporting requirement, he was surprised. He hadn't read the agreenent he has signed between UM and the U.S. Department of Justice. He was completely unaware, he claimed, that UM had agreed to snitch on students, faculty and staff.

Tragedy declined into farce. Legal proceedings blew up on Engstrom and, at the end of the day, of all the frantic efforts and publicity and headlines and trials, there was just a single conviction resulting fron a guilty plea, involving two childhood friends from Frenchtown who often overnighted at the Missoula residence of the student athlete. She had overnighted on this occassion, and he came in seeking sex. She said she was frightened and did not so "no" or resist. But, she did immediately report it to the police. He did not contest the charges and got a sentence of 30 years in prison with 20 years suspended. At about the same time, a varsity basketball player at MSU was charged with rape of two minor Bozeman girls. He pleaded guilty and got six months jail time, with three months suspended.

So, for all the turmoil and headlines, all Engstrom got besides embarrassment for the University of Montana, and a thoroughly negative public reputation that continues to haunt the campus, with mass firings a faculty and staff, there was but a single conviction, a guilty plea, regarding an incident between two family friends whose "relationship" went back to their childhoods growing up in Frenchtown.

"Don't Harm the Brand" you say?

Well, aside from the Keystone Kops quality of the UM Administration the past seven years, how about having the worst season conference results in 32 years? Does that count?

 

[goarmy]

Doesn't look like a dui in the military usually leads to getting kicked out of military.

More than one will.

Reductions in grade for DUI most likely cost you your next promotion opportunity, which can also move you down the road to out. For an officer or NCO, it can be a career ender -- you will never promote again, and you will be moved out.

A DUI can cost you your security clearance. Then you can't do your job, so....

Putting it in context of college students on scholarship, an ROTC cadet who gets a DUI is extremely unlikely to ever get commissioned, and will probably lose his/her scholarship.

 

[Ursa Major]

There are many, many reasons. I'll list just two:

(1) because it is a privilege to represent the University of Montana, and before you earn the honor of doning a uniform that says "Montana" on the front, you make a commitment that you will not do anything to harm that brand. Part of sports is teaching about honoring one's commitments, and that there are consequences to one's actions.

(2) for precisely the same reason that you do not brag incessantly about having chess club members at your cabin.

:lol: :lol: :lol: POTY

 

[horribilisfan8184]

Every job requiring a class C DL. But you knew that. Can lose your job for blowing any alcohol during random tests. I'm sure you knew that too.

 

[Ursus1]

Every job requiring a class C DL. But you knew that. Can lose your job for blowing any alcohol during random tests. I'm sure you knew that too.

And in Montana that's a lot of jobs.....but I am sure he is out of touch with these workers although many fill seats in WA Griz.

 

[PlayerRep]

There are many, many reasons. I'll list just two:

(1) because it is a privilege to represent the University of Montana, and before you earn the honor of doning a uniform that says "Montana" on the front, you make a commitment that you will not do anything to harm that brand. Part of sports is teaching about honoring one's commitments, and that there are consequences to one's actions.

(2) for precisely the same reason that you do not brag incessantly about having chess club members at your cabin.

I am glad someone else sees it as a privilage to wear Montana on their jersey contrary to PR.

I find it interesting that posters who have never worn a college football jersey on the playing, i.e. haven't played the game, believe it is a privilege that requires intense scrutiny and extreme punishment beyond what is required by law (and even the athletic code of conduct).

 

[GrizLA]

I had a neighbor in Cali that lost their position at a med school for exactly that. And, I know of a major engineering group that has firm guidelines that are adhered to. If not they are politely shown the door.

Name the engineering group, and I will see if what you are saying is correct.

How about USC med school? Young woman OD's when with the older dean in his hotel room, and meth is found in the room, this gets reported to the school, and the deans stays on the payroll, keeps seeing patients, and keeps representing the school. School keeps getting contacted by the LA Times for a year, and nothing changes with the dean.

I no longer have interest in that USC, sorry. And, you being such a sleuth, find out which of the two major engineering groups point you to the door for a DUI...you can do it. I am beginning to think you a person that is not highethically inclined.

I am beginning to think that you won't say the name of the engineering firm because you made up what you said.

Because I think you are a "stalker", that's why.

 

[PlayerRep]

There are many, many reasons. I'll list just two:

(1) because it is a privilege to represent the University of Montana, and before you earn the honor of doning a uniform that says "Montana" on the front, you make a commitment that you will not do anything to harm that brand. Part of sports is teaching about honoring one's commitments, and that there are consequences to one's actions.

(2) for precisely the same reason that you do not brag incessantly about having chess club members at your cabin.

:lol: :lol: :lol: POTY

Had a Griz chess player stay at our place on Friday night. Chuck Burton was here today. A dozen recent Stanford law students coming tomorrow for a week. Guess that blows that (dumb) theory. Like they in Texas, if it's true, it aint braggin.

 

[PlayerRep]

Name the engineering group, and I will see if what you are saying is correct.

How about USC med school? Young woman OD's when with the older dean in his hotel room, and meth is found in the room, this gets reported to the school, and the deans stays on the payroll, keeps seeing patients, and keeps representing the school. School keeps getting contacted by the LA Times for a year, and nothing changes with the dean.

I no longer have interest in that USC, sorry. And, you being such a sleuth, find out which of the two major engineering groups point you to the door for a DUI...you can do it. I am beginning to think you a person that is not highethically inclined.

I am beginning to think that you won't say the name of the engineering firm because you made up what you said.

Because I think you are a "stalker", that's why.

Not a stalker, but looks like you are a fibber.

 

[GrizLA]

I no longer have interest in that USC, sorry. And, you being such a sleuth, find out which of the two major engineering groups point you to the door for a DUI...you can do it. I am beginning to think you a person that is not highethically inclined.

I am beginning to think that you won't say the name of the engineering firm because you made up what you said.

Because I think you are a "stalker", that's why.

Not a stalker, but looks like you are a fibber.

II repeat: I think you are an internet stalker, and have thought so for years. And, if I am wrong, I do think you spend an inordinate amount of time with Griz athletes and hangers on..

 

[SoldierGriz]

Doesn't look like a dui in the military usually leads to getting kicked out of military.

"Punishments under the Uniform Code of Military Justice

Learn

more about military area defense counsel services.

Punitive actions under the Uniform Code of Military Justice are possible if civilian authorities do not prosecute you. Although you cannot be charged for the same incident on and off the installation, you can still be punished under the code for misconduct and other lesser offenses as a result of the off-installation DUI. Military punitive actions may include:

Judicial punishment (court-martial) — If you are stopped on the installation, or the civilian authorities are not prosecuting you, you can receive a court-martial under Article 111 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Punishments can include loss of pay, reduction in grade, confinement and dismissal from the military.
Nonjudicial punishment — Commanding officers can levy nonjudicial punishment for minor disciplinary offenses under Article 15 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Under nonjudicial punishment, commanding officers can punish you through an official reprimand, extra duty, restriction to limits, forfeiture of pay and reduction of grade.

Regardless of whether you are being charged by civilian authorities or receiving Uniform Code of Military Justice action, your commanding officer can take administrative actions against you including any of the following:

Letter of reprimand — A letter of reprimand is a formal document that details your wrongful actions and the punishment that can be expected. Although less severe than a court-martial, it can be career-ending, as the letter remains in your record.
Revocation of pass privileges — Your commander can revoke your ability to go on leave.
Mandatory referral to a substance abuse treatment program — Your commander can mandate that you enroll in and complete a substance abuse treatment program.
Corrective training — Your commander may require corrective training if he or she believes you would benefit from additional instruction.
Administrative reduction in grade — Depending on your situation and your rank, your commander can reduce your grade.
Bar to re-enlistment — A bar to re-enlistment is a procedure that commanders may use to deny you the opportunity to re-enlist after your current service is complete."

http://www.militaryonesource.mil/financial-and-legal/legal-issues?content_id=281442

PR - you often chastise people for not knowing what they are talking about - you know "never played the game." In this particular case, you are wrong. The DUI and adjudication thereof through the UCMJ is not specifically what ends a Soldier's career. Commanders have options in this regard. Administrative actions carry a much sharper reality. The memorandum of reprimand issued by the General Court Martial Convening Authority and filed in a Soldier's official military file is career ending. Also, the negative evaluation that accompanies a DUI is career-ending. These two things bring careers to an end. This is an absolute fact in 99/100 cases.

I've led Army units from the platoon to the Brigade level for nearly 28 years. I do not know more about football than you...I am OK with that. But, on this particular topic, I am an expert.