When will the griz get back to where we used to be?

[SoldierGriz]

If this coaching staff gets its act together; two years

This would be my guess too, 2017 sets the stage for greater things.

3-year extension?

2-year extension?

Year-to-year extension?

This is the dilemma...IMO.

With a new univserty president coming in I bet there will be pressure temporarily to not enter into longer term contracts. Let's say 2017 is a successful season, I'd bet either a year or 2 year.

This crap really brings the pressure involved in coaching college football to the front and center. I'm not sure Stitt has ever coached with this type of pressure on him...

 

[BWahlberg]

This would be my guess too, 2017 sets the stage for greater things.

3-year extension?

2-year extension?

Year-to-year extension?

This is the dilemma...IMO.

With a new univserty president coming in I bet there will be pressure temporarily to not enter into longer term contracts. Let's say 2017 is a successful season, I'd bet either a year or 2 year.

This crap really brings the pressure involved in coaching college football to the front and center. I'm not sure Stitt has ever coached with this type of pressure on him...

I would think not, I doubt CSM ever put these types of expectations on him.

 

[The_Real_Chief]

Improve on defense, build a better line, and better running game. I'll use the 2008 and 2009 teams as an example, We had an excellent defense, top notch back, playmaker at WR, and swagger. Those teams ran through the big sky, we had a level of confidence that we had teams beat mentally before we stepped on the field. Although we came up short both years, we had the ingredients to win. If we would have fed Marc more footballs in the 2nd half i'm convinced we would have had our 3rd championship. i'm sure you all will disagree but i'll stand by this statement.

Also had a tough, smart leader at qb....

Didnt go to shit the minute he got hit...

As soon as Stitt has his QB for this offense, the program will take off

Absolutely, Selle and Bergquist were the last QBs that I trusted. Although i'm a big BG fan, we just didn't have the right mix to make it work for BG. BG is getting some looks from NFL scouts.

 

[get'em_griz]

Improve on defense, build a better line, and better running game. I'll use the 2008 and 2009 teams as an example, We had an excellent defense, top notch back, playmaker at WR, and swagger. Those teams ran through the big sky, we had a level of confidence that we had teams beat mentally before we stepped on the field. Although we came up short both years, we had the ingredients to win. If we would have fed Marc more footballs in the 2nd half i'm convinced we would have had our 3rd championship. i'm sure you all will disagree but i'll stand by this statement.

Also had a tough, smart leader at qb....

Didnt go to shit the minute he got hit...

As soon as Stitt has his QB for this offense, the program will take off

Absolutely, Selle and Bergquist were the last QBs that I trusted.

Did you forget Jordan Johnson? He was the last QB, besides Selle and Bergquist, that was any good. Unfortunately he was held back by Delaney.

 

[Pater_Ursus_Arctos]

My guess...not until our current staff realizes recruiting BIG MEAN (you know...DOLA) is more important than 25 WRs.

:thumb:

The Griz have prioritized getting O-lineman the past two classes and will this year as well. So I think your statement isn't totally accurate. We have DOLA they are just young. The Griz's recruiting problems have come trying to get CBs and DTs thus why they have had to go Juco route.

This+ Last years recruiting class had 6 for the OL and this year has 3 and counting. I'm on the Yeti bandwagon and cant wait to see the others play.

I hope you're right. I hope the new recruits are ALL DOLA (mean SOBs.). The game of football is won in the trenches.

 

[Blgs Griz Fan]

Improve on defense, build a better line, and better running game. I'll use the 2008 and 2009 teams as an example, We had an excellent defense, top notch back, playmaker at WR, and swagger. Those teams ran through the big sky, we had a level of confidence that we had teams beat mentally before we stepped on the field. Although we came up short both years, we had the ingredients to win. If we would have fed Marc more footballs in the 2nd half i'm convinced we would have had our 3rd championship. i'm sure you all will disagree but i'll stand by this statement.

Also had a tough, smart leader at qb....

Didnt go to shit the minute he got hit...

As soon as Stitt has his QB for this offense, the program will take off

Absolutely, Selle and Bergquist were the last QBs that I trusted.

Did you forget Jordan Johnson? He was the last QB, besides Selle and Bergquist, that was any good. Unfortunately he was held back by Delaney.

It seemed Jordan Johnson never regained his game after the suspension.

 

[The_Real_Chief]

Also had a tough, smart leader at qb....

Didnt go to shit the minute he got hit...

As soon as Stitt has his QB for this offense, the program will take off

Absolutely, Selle and Bergquist were the last QBs that I trusted.

Did you forget Jordan Johnson? He was the last QB, besides Selle and Bergquist, that was any good. Unfortunately he was held back by Delaney.

It seemed Jordan Johnson never regained his game after the suspension.

I agree with that, i'll tell Selle or Cole over Jordy personally

 

[Blgs Griz Fan]

3-year extension?

2-year extension?

Year-to-year extension?

This is the dilemma...IMO.

With a new univserty president coming in I bet there will be pressure temporarily to not enter into longer term contracts. Let's say 2017 is a successful season, I'd bet either a year or 2 year.

This crap really brings the pressure involved in coaching college football to the front and center. I'm not sure Stitt has ever coached with this type of pressure on him...

I would think not, I doubt CSM ever put these types of expectations on him.

I suggest one or done with no extension until the Griz make the second round of the playoffs next year.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

I would argue that they are, back to the pre-Read era. Back to the Donovan and Carlson days.

 

[get'em_griz]

Also had a tough, smart leader at qb....

Didnt go to shit the minute he got hit...

As soon as Stitt has his QB for this offense, the program will take off

Absolutely, Selle and Bergquist were the last QBs that I trusted.

Did you forget Jordan Johnson? He was the last QB, besides Selle and Bergquist, that was any good. Unfortunately he was held back by Delaney.

It seemed Jordan Johnson never regained his game after the suspension.

Which was mostly due to Delaney having him play as a pocket passer when he was a dual threat QB. JJ was held back big time. When Delaney finally let him loose to do what he was best at against the Cats in 2014, we saw the same JJ we saw in 2011. Had Stitt had JJ, Jordan would have started over Brady.

 

[AllWeatherFan]

When will the Griz get back to where we used to be in 1968? You know, triple option and crap?

That year we beat Portland State 58-0, and we beat UND 37-10.

But we lost all the rest of our games, including a home loss to the kittens.

When you're as old as I am, "the way things used to be" means something different than it does for you whipper-snappers.

I mean, I'm not as old as some of you old bastards, but at least I have a broader perspective than you youngsters.

 

[UMGriz75]

Starting over is not entirely peril. I think it is true not just in sports, but in business and academics as well. With Engstrom gone, UM gets a re-set from continuing failure. I'm not sanguine about our current football staff, and if UM is to give its student-athletes the best opportunities to succeed, in sport and in life, doubling down on failure may be the second-best alternative to the "fresh start."

To quantify the effect that a coaching change has on recruiting, USA TODAY Sports examined 79 coaching changes on the automatic-qualifying level since the start of the 2003 season and reviewed the ranking of the coach's first full recruiting class, as rated by Rivals.com. The rating of a new coaching staff's first class exceeded that of the previous staff's final class in nearly 70% of the cases (55 of 79). The new staffs' classes ranked 8.94 spots higher on Rivals' scale when compared to their predecessors' final group — in some cases making a significant enough leap to turn around the direction of an entire program.

While recruiting bumps were seen across every AQ conference, the more noteworthy leaps were typically seen after coaching changes at historically successful programs. Washington's first full class under coach Steve Sarkisian took a 40-spot leap when compared to Tyrone Willingham's final class, in large part because of the Huskies' steep decline in Willingham's final two seasons. Nebraska experienced a 35-spot leap in 2005, after Bill Callahan replaced Frank Solich.

Even programs who found little on-field success experienced an immediate bump. For example, former Colorado coach Jon Embree's first full class, signed in 2012, was ranked 38 spots higher in Rivals' rankings than Dan Hawkins' final full class; Embree was 3-10 in 2011, his first year with the program. In 2008, former Minnesota coach Tim Brewster signed the 17th-best class in the FBS — a 40-spot leap compared to his predecessor's final group — after going 1-11 in his debut.

The improvement is also striking when comparing a new coach's original class, often signed on the fly after being hired, and his first full class signed after a season with the program. In this case, the 79 new AQ coaches experienced an average climb of 11.03 spots in Rivals' class rankings. Only 21 coaches saw a decline in class ranking after one full season in the position.

This trend can be attributed to several factors, none more important than the idea that new coaches, nearly to a man, are able to better sell their respective programs than the staff they've replaced. "You're basically there starting with a clean slate," Stoops said. "It doesn't matter what your identity was the previous year, because this is a new direction. This is where you're going."

The arrival of any new leader — whether a coach in football or a CEO in business — creates the "anticipation of a possibility," said Robert Marshak, a senior scholar in residence in American University's Department of Public Administration and Policy.

"The entrance of somebody new always holds out a little bit of hope that this person will somehow be different or act different or make different than what was before," Marshak said. "And if before is not as good as you would like it to be, then there is that possibility."

It's this "promise of the future" that leads to immediate results on the recruiting trail, said Hall of Fame coach Grant Teaff, executive director of the American Football Coaches Association.

"A lot of it has to do with the change that's taken place," he said. "There's new energy. There's new ideas. 'Yeah, I love that school, but they haven't been able to win. But man, this coach is going to win.' So, bingo."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/recruiting/2013/09/16/college-football-recruiting-new-coach-first-year-bump/2794545/

 

[horribilisfan8184]

Starting over is not entirely peril. I think it is true not just in sports, but in business and academics as well. With Engstrom gone, UM gets a re-set from continuing failure. I'm not sanguine about our current football staff, and if UM is to give its student-athletes the best opportunities to succeed, in sport and in life, doubling down on failure may be the second-best alternative to the "fresh start."

To quantify the effect that a coaching change has on recruiting, USA TODAY Sports examined 79 coaching changes on the automatic-qualifying level since the start of the 2003 season and reviewed the ranking of the coach's first full recruiting class, as rated by Rivals.com. The rating of a new coaching staff's first class exceeded that of the previous staff's final class in nearly 70% of the cases (55 of 79). The new staffs' classes ranked 8.94 spots higher on Rivals' scale when compared to their predecessors' final group — in some cases making a significant enough leap to turn around the direction of an entire program.

While recruiting bumps were seen across every AQ conference, the more noteworthy leaps were typically seen after coaching changes at historically successful programs. Washington's first full class under coach Steve Sarkisian took a 40-spot leap when compared to Tyrone Willingham's final class, in large part because of the Huskies' steep decline in Willingham's final two seasons. Nebraska experienced a 35-spot leap in 2005, after Bill Callahan replaced Frank Solich.

Even programs who found little on-field success experienced an immediate bump. For example, former Colorado coach Jon Embree's first full class, signed in 2012, was ranked 38 spots higher in Rivals' rankings than Dan Hawkins' final full class; Embree was 3-10 in 2011, his first year with the program. In 2008, former Minnesota coach Tim Brewster signed the 17th-best class in the FBS — a 40-spot leap compared to his predecessor's final group — after going 1-11 in his debut.

The improvement is also striking when comparing a new coach's original class, often signed on the fly after being hired, and his first full class signed after a season with the program. In this case, the 79 new AQ coaches experienced an average climb of 11.03 spots in Rivals' class rankings. Only 21 coaches saw a decline in class ranking after one full season in the position.

This trend can be attributed to several factors, none more important than the idea that new coaches, nearly to a man, are able to better sell their respective programs than the staff they've replaced. "You're basically there starting with a clean slate," Stoops said. "It doesn't matter what your identity was the previous year, because this is a new direction. This is where you're going."

The arrival of any new leader — whether a coach in football or a CEO in business — creates the "anticipation of a possibility," said Robert Marshak, a senior scholar in residence in American University's Department of Public Administration and Policy.

"The entrance of somebody new always holds out a little bit of hope that this person will somehow be different or act different or make different than what was before," Marshak said. "And if before is not as good as you would like it to be, then there is that possibility."

It's this "promise of the future" that leads to immediate results on the recruiting trail, said Hall of Fame coach Grant Teaff, executive director of the American Football Coaches Association.

"A lot of it has to do with the change that's taken place," he said. "There's new energy. There's new ideas. 'Yeah, I love that school, but they haven't been able to win. But man, this coach is going to win.' So, bingo."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/recruiting/2013/09/16/college-football-recruiting-new-coach-first-year-bump/2794545/

According to other sources, your first year bump phenomenon is the exception, not the rule:

"“The pressure has gotten out of control to win,” said Bradley Dale Peveto, whose contract was terminated last week after four seasons at Northwestern State of Louisiana.

Over the past decade, about 1 in 10 universities at the major college level replaced their head football coaches annually for performance-related reasons. But a recent study suggests that replacements do not tend to make underperforming teams much better in subsequent seasons and frequently make them worse.

Anecdotal evidence and scientific analysis indicate that replacing a coach is no guarantee of success. Houston finished 5-7 this season after changing its coordinator. Wisconsin is a middling 7-5 after firing its line coach. The Badgers reached the Big Ten Conference title game only because N.C.A.A. penalties left Ohio State and Penn State ineligible.

A study published last month in Social Science Quarterly may provide sobering news to Auburn, Tennessee and other universities that have fired their coaches. Using data from 1997 to 2010, the study compared the performance of major college teams that replaced their coach with teams with similar records that kept their coach.

The results, tracked over a five-year period following the coaching changes, might surprise many. The lowliest teams subsequently performed about the same as other struggling teams that did not replace their coach. Mediocre teams — those that won about half their games in the year before a coaching change — performed worse than similar teams that did not replace their coach.

The reasons for this are not clearly understood, but may stem from an adjustment period required by a coach at a new university, the time players need to learn a new system and disruptions made to recruiting networks, said E. Scott Adler, an associate professor of political science at the University of Colorado and the lead author of the study.

Statistically speaking, Adler said: “There’s not much to be said for every few years dumping a coach who’s had a couple bad seasons. In the long run, you are about in the same situation down the road if you had done nothing and ridden out the storm.”

Adler’s own university recently fired its coach, Jon Embree.

There are exceptions, of course, which lend urgency to efforts by fans and administrators to throw out one coach and bring in another. Auburn measures itself against a fierce intrastate rival, Alabama, which is seeking its third national title in four seasons after hiring Nick Saban at a hefty salary that has reached $5.5 million per season, the highest in the country."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/29/sports/ncaafootball/time-runs-out-but-not-the-money-in-college-football-coaches-firings.html

 

[UMGriz75]

Statistically speaking, Adler said: “There’s not much to be said for every few years dumping a coach who’s had a couple bad seasons. In the long run, you are about in the same situation down the road if you had done nothing and ridden out the storm.”

Well, that says that the record is about even either way. That is, the risk is equal.

It isn't when there are specific weaknesses in a program, or, the opportunity for an identifiably better coach. UM's own record of coach changes is proof of that. Since Read, first year coaches were as likely to have their best years in their first, as in their third or fourth.

Depends on all sorts of factors: who was the previous coach, what was the record, what kind of staff was left in place, did the new coach continue or change the play strategy significantly, how did the coach interact with the team, ie, "coach?" Did the coach "move up," "move across," or "drop down?"

"Move-ups" don't fare well, and when that is factored into the above generalization, the dynamic changes, perhaps not a lot, but it changes. Too, "culture" matters as well, in sports, business and academics. Does the coach have a "culture?" Do the players "buy-in?" Is the culture a field culture or a locker room culture? Does the team rally behind natural captains regularly? Does the coach nurture natural "captains" and team leaders by encouragement and allowing the team to buy-in, or by playing favorites?

For coaches identifiable as eventual failures, the evidence showed early. And, even if the risk is equal, for those programs failing, of course, they continued to fail, and so the 50/50 risk is, in fact, worth taking for those teams. The trick is identifying the many factors involved in a bad year, a declining record, or team apathy. A bad year, per se, isn't enough of a reason. However, a collection of identifiers can be.

Finally, what is the "message" of the program? "We expect our student athletes to give their all and win, but our staff, not so much?" Or "We don't tolerate failure."

 

[UMGriz75]

According to other sources, your first year bump phenomenon is the exception, not the rule: "“The pressure has gotten out of control to win,” said Bradley Dale Peveto, whose contract was terminated last week after four seasons at Northwestern State of Louisiana.

You missed the point. Your cite does not reference recruiting at all. The articles can be read together, and are entirely consistent with one another.

"Recruiting" improves in that first year. And fanboys get all excited about it as though they just discovered the second coming of "That Championship Season."

But, as your data shows, a big leap in "successful recruiting" has almost nothing to do with subsequent team success or failure.

Interesting, no?

Stitt was given a lot of credit for his recruiting when in fact, statistically, it had more to do with the fact that he was the new coach than that he was "Bob Stitt." Now, in recruiting he is burdened with the fact that he is "Bob Stitt," the new-coach smell is gone, and a disastrous last half season is out there ahead of him.

 

[MTOutsider]

If the Griz want to get back to where they once were....

First step. Reconstruct Dornblazer stadium.

 

[Copper Griz]

According to other sources, your first year bump phenomenon is the exception, not the rule: "“The pressure has gotten out of control to win,” said Bradley Dale Peveto, whose contract was terminated last week after four seasons at Northwestern State of Louisiana.

You missed the point. Your cite does not reference recruiting at all. The articles can be read together, and are entirely consistent with one another.

"Recruiting" improves in that first year. And fanboys get all excited about it as though they just discovered the second coming of "That Championship Season."

But, as your data shows, a big leap in "successful recruiting" has almost nothing to do with subsequent team success or failure.

Interesting, no?

Stitt was given a lot of credit for his recruiting when in fact, statistically, it had more to do with the fact that he was the new coach than that he was "Bob Stitt." Now, in recruiting he is burdened with the fact that he is "Bob Stitt," the new-coach smell is gone, and a disastrous last half season is out there ahead of him.

The definition of insanity - look it up 75. Good God man. Your tirade is well past the "getting old phase." I can confidently say that every person on the board has figured out that you hate Stitt. Mission accomplished. Maybe move on to another topic you can fixate on. Possibly check into treatment for OCD while you are at it.

 

[UMGriz75]

The definition of insanity - look it up 75. Good God man. Your tirade is well past the "getting old phase." I can confidently say that every person on the board has figured out that you hate Stitt. Mission accomplished. Maybe move on to another topic you can fixate on. Possibly check into treatment for OCD while you are at it.

You seem to be fixated ....

Don't read the comments. It's that easy.

 

[Copper Griz]

The definition of insanity - look it up 75. Good God man. Your tirade is well past the "getting old phase." I can confidently say that every person on the board has figured out that you hate Stitt. Mission accomplished. Maybe move on to another topic you can fixate on. Possibly check into treatment for OCD while you are at it.

You seem to be fixated ....

Don't read the comments. It's that easy.

Take your own advice. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[PlayerRep]

My view on the answer to the thread title is Never. UM will never win 12 conference championships in a row again. Will probably not go to the playoffs 17 times in a row again. Will not be the most successful team in D-I football in a decade again. Will not have a string of great coaches like Read, Dennehy, Glenn, Hauck and Pflugrad. Will not have such a long-running supportive president as Dennison.

When UM was on top of the world, I often posted that more fans should enjoy and appreciate what they had, and not complain so much, because it wouldn't last forever.

The Griz will likely figure out how to climb closer to the top, but it's not an easy climb and it's incredibly difficult to stay on top for very longer.

It looks like the Cats probably hired very good coaches. I think the Cats are going to climb up near the top--and perhaps even start giving the Griz a run for its money. EWU, with Baldwin, has become a top contender and seems to keep reloading.