What now Engstrom?

[GGNez]

This has been the best handled legal issue so something has changed in a positive way IMO.

+1

The terminations of Jim and Pflu had nothing to do with ensuring that players stayed out of trouble. It had everything to do with what was at least perceived as terrible handling of those situations.

Sometimes even good managers have to make difficult decisions because of perception. Long term UM is better off.

This is exactly correct. As painful as it is it may even get worse before it gets better but it needed to be done. The ship will be righted sometime in the not to distant future.

I agree 100%

 

[griz4life]

pretty much agree...bad behavior all over sports...college sports not alone here either

But, on the academic side Engstrom has his hands full, UM is facing an eroding academic standing due to rising costs, competition, and the huge cutbacks to come with budget reductions.....Dennison has a degree of culpability but nothing seems to stick to him. Engstrom inherited alot of Georges ego projects.....i.e. more buildings less capactity.

He does have his hands full, and this athletics fiasco has served as an effective distraction to university problems that are much bigger and way more expensive than UM athletics. Royce Engstrom is very much at fault for the aimless direction UM academics has taken during his two years as president.

 

[Umista]

Bulldoze that damn golf course. Make Uof M the Harvard of the West. Fire the AD and head football coach. Move the young kids ready to enter college to msu. Pretend to like athletics. Bring in some hand picked yes man to answer and provide political spin on U of M..........he be our man Sir Royce.

 

[NorthEndZoneDan]

Oh come on, boys will be boys. Rape, drugs, disorderly conduct... Those silly boys just want to have a good time, leave 'em alone. They are winners. They are the Griz. We should all look the other way.


I hate this god damn season. It's a nightmare that won't end.

Hang in there, NotBH. Recent life experiences have taught me that we will come out of this better fans, a better program and better perspective all around. The future is bright but the only way to get back to the top is to first hit bottom.

better fans? but I like these whiny snot nosed little bastards, at least some of them :lol:

 

[GGNez]

Oh come on, boys will be boys. Rape, drugs, disorderly conduct... Those silly boys just want to have a good time, leave 'em alone. They are winners. They are the Griz. We should all look the other way.


I hate this god damn season. It's a nightmare that won't end.

Hang in there, NotBH. Recent life experiences have taught me that we will come out of this better fans, a better program and better perspective all around. The future is bright but the only way to get back to the top is to first hit bottom.

better fans? but I like these whiny snot nosed little bastards, at least some of them :lol:

I do too, Dan. Many in spite of themselves. I simply root for them to find the inner peace we all deserve.

 

[LakGriz]

take another look at Foley. He was NOT fired as were Flu and O'Day. He wasn't part of that bloodbath. He was reassigned to another dept. Same effect, tho. Don't know duration of his contract.

 

[kurtismichael]

take another look at Foley. He was NOT fired as were Flu and O'Day. He wasn't part of that bloodbath. He was reassigned to another dept. Same effect, tho. Don't know duration of his contract.

I've always wondered why that guy wasn't fired outright. Wasn't he the one that wrote the emails, about trying to get the victim in trouble, that caused all the uproar?

 

[LakGriz]

that was the Florio headline.

He asked the Saudi Arabia dean if she could talk/write about all the crap w/out putting herself in some jeopardy

 

[CV Griz Fan]

This has been the best handled legal issue so something has changed in a positive way IMO.

+1

The terminations of Jim and Pflu had nothing to do with ensuring that players stayed out of trouble. It had everything to do with what was at least perceived as terrible handling of those situations.

Sometimes even good managers have to make difficult decisions because of perception. Long term UM is better off.

This is exactly correct. As painful as it is it may even get worse before it gets better but it needed to be done. The ship will be righted sometime in the not to distant future.

I agree 100%.[/ quote]


Are you guys serious? Delaney in no way looks like a hero here, In fact, he looks like the impotent leader that he is. The players DON"T respect him! This is just more evidence. Not only is he a "crappy" football coach, the stupid player behavior continues under his watch! This is an example of a classic "failing" organization and it starts with Engstrom at the top. In bad organizations, one "bad" decision usually leads to more and more "bad" decisions which spin out of control. The firing of Pflu and O'day started the ball rolling down this road. The second bad decision was to hire Delaney. Now Griz Football is reeling. If you're a Griz fan that thinks this is going to turn around soon," you had better wake up and smell the coffee"!

 

[EverettGriz]

take another look at Foley. He was NOT fired as were Flu and O'Day. He wasn't part of that bloodbath. He was reassigned to another dept. Same effect, tho. Don't know duration of his contract.

I've always wondered why that guy wasn't fired outright. Wasn't he the one that wrote the emails, about trying to get the victim in trouble, that caused all the uproar?

Essentially as I understand it, all three were handled the same. Since they all had existing one year contracts, all 3 will be paid through the end of that contract, which will then not be renewed. The difference is just that Foley was "reassigned" to a position in charge of counting paperclips from an office in the basement of the power plant building, while there isn't really a place you can "reassign" your head football coach.

 

[Cats2506]

take another look at Foley. He was NOT fired as were Flu and O'Day. He wasn't part of that bloodbath. He was reassigned to another dept. Same effect, tho. Don't know duration of his contract.

I've always wondered why that guy wasn't fired outright. Wasn't he the one that wrote the emails, about trying to get the victim in trouble, that caused all the uproar?

Essentially as I understand it, all three were handled the same. Since they all had existing one year contracts, all 3 will be paid through the end of that contract, which will then not be renewed. The difference is just that Foley was "reassigned" to a position in charge of counting paperclips from an office in the basement of the power plant building, while there isn't really a place you can "reassign" your head football coach.

 

[BigPawzSharpClawz]

One would argue that the process would not have been changed under O'Day/Pflugrad. The 1-quarter suspensions of Trumaine and Gerald last year look even more ridiculous now considering three players have been suspended for an entire game for (by all accounts) simply being at a party they probably were warned not to go to.

One could also argue, that had Delaney been the coach last year, before the process was changed and all the shit came down, that the suspensions would've been the same.

I guess what I look at is that Delaney is suspending players for violating team rules that have nothing to do with the new process, which affected Poole. Delaney easily could have not suspended the three other players at all, since Poole was the only player arrested Saturday night. Griz Nation would be none-the-wiser regarding those three players, outside of rumors that other football players were at the Disco Bloodbath party. Instead, Delaney is suspending them for a road conference game while Pflu sat Trumaine and Gerald a quarter for an incident that I would venture to guess violated team rules and involved police. Would Pflu have suspended the three additional players -- from his prior actions, I tend to think he wouldn't have.

Difference in opinion...no biggie. There isn't a coach in the world who wouldn't have suspended these players after all that has happened here in the last 6 months. Delaney's not a superhero, Charles Manson would've suspended them for doing wrong right now....he did the right thing, but did he have a choice?

Again, it's the process and the public view that's changed. It's really not debatable right now if the coach is going to hold players accountable or not. He has to. Would've been the same under Pflu.

@ STUBBY - Great response and I would have to agree completely. ANY coach given the past 6-9 months would suspend everyone who went to that "rave" on Saturday. I am one of the people who believe we need a change in the off season. I hope our new AD is quietly beating the phone lines this week lining up potentials.

IMO we will be at a recruiting disadvantage this off season if we have a "lame duck" coach for 2013. Two maybe three recruiting classes will be adversely effected if Mick stays in the position. He just doesn't show the ability to play that mental chess game that the best college coaches have.

Great Programs require great talent, great tradition, great internal leadership and great caching. We have tremendous young talent. Despite recent errors we do have great tradition...IMO we are missing team leadership but thats a minor issue as great coaching can also substitute for lack of internal leadership.

Regardless, things must be corrected during this off season not next. IMO!

 

[tnt]

take another look at Foley. He was NOT fired as were Flu and O'Day. He wasn't part of that bloodbath. He was reassigned to another dept. Same effect, tho. Don't know duration of his contract.

I've always wondered why that guy wasn't fired outright. Wasn't he the one that wrote the emails, about trying to get the victim in trouble, that caused all the uproar?

Essentially as I understand it, all three were handled the same. Since they all had existing one year contracts, all 3 will be paid through the end of that contract, which will then not be renewed. The difference is just that Foley was "reassigned" to a position in charge of counting paperclips from an office in the basement of the power plant building, while there isn't really a place you can "reassign" your head football coach.

Actually I believe Pflu went to the basement of the library where he has to pay for his own phone.