What is wrong with men's hoops: players or coaches

[PlayerRep]

What is wrong with men's hoops this year? Too many conference losses. Recent loss to Cats. Can't seem to hold leads. Are these player or coach problems? The large amount of lineup changes, and re-changes, and minute various seem like a problem to me too. I can see how players get discouraged when the changes occur, and they probably don't know where they stand. See below quotes from the recent Skyline Sports article. These look like significant issues to me, but I am not close enough to the situation to know.

"... can they overcome the adversity that invariably arises during the course of a season.

“Unfortunately for this team the adversity keeps piling on and it doesn’t go away.”

"... team that has searched for consistency all season."

“I think that’s the biggest issue for us this year is we’ve been distracted,” DeCuire said. “We’ve been distracted for months in a lot of different ways — more ways than I’ve ever experience. I believe that’s why we’re not winning right now.”

"The Griz have tried to do so with players adjusting to new roles. Some of those have been accepted and some have not. Some of that has caused some internal strife that has eroded some of the chemistry the Griz were counting on to push them through a year DeCuire knew would a difficult one. In January, senior Walter Wright and Rorie were suspended. Then last week true freshman Sayeed Pridgett sat for a game."

"UM junior power forward Fabijan Krslovic said. “We have to make sure everyone stays up and stays positive. I think you could tell once they had that run, some guys got flat. It just kind of impacted everyone. It’s pretty contagious when something like that happens. It’s got to be guys making sure when they see that, just jump on it and keep everyone up, keep everyone positive, keep everyone together and try rallying around each other. Every game you’re gonna play in, both teams are going to go on runs big or small, but you just have to fight through that adversity and fight against that momentum.”

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

Hard to be consistent and more than .500 when :
a team is an average shooting team,
a below average 3-point shooting team,
below average FG pct defense,
lacks depth on the front line,
and is a an average rebounding team.

 

[grizzlyjournal]

Hard to be consistent and more than .500 when :
a team is an average shooting team,
a below average 3-point shooting team,
below average FG pct defense,
lacks depth on the front line,
and is a an average rebounding team.

To back up HHB w/regard to shooting, here are Griz field goal and 3-pt field goal stats from 2009-10 to this year so far.

YEAR ----- FG % 3 pt/fg % 3 pt/game
2009-10-- 48.3% / 40% / 6.6
2010-11-- 46.2 / 31.2 / 4.6
2011-12-- 46.3 / 37.2 / 6.1
2012-13-- 46.5 / 37.2 / 6.8
2013-14-- 48.1 / 37.4 / 7.5
2014-15-- 46.5 / 37.2 / 8.3
2015-16-- 46.5 / 37.2 / 8.0
2016-17-- 44.3%/ 34.1 / 7.0

I didn't record a comparison of percentage shot vs. shooting percentage allowed. This year the Griz are allowing opponents to shoot just over 45% per game.

That said, I firmly believe this is a team with remarkable potential. Keep in mind they've lost 7 or 8 games in either the final possession (including missed free throws) or within the final two possessions. They've won one. There's some tough luck for this Griz team this year.

I still think the Griz are capable of competing in the Big Sky finals, though it's tough to win four in a row (accomplished only by Idaho State in 1987).

 

[George Ferguson]

If the two transfer bigs as are as good as I've heard they are, I'm not the least bit worried about the next two seasons of Griz basketball. I agree with Helena abut pretty much everything. It's been a weird season, and, in some ways disappointing, but, the weaknesses have just been exposed. But again, the the bigs deliver, with the talent Montana has in guard play, I think the Griz are going to be just fine in the future. Look what Wiley did for EWU.

 

[UMGriz75]

I mentioned this somewhere else, but a key feature missing appears to be team leadership. Kjrslovic is perhaps the natural at this point, but he doesn't "anger up" well. Jordan Gregory really was the spark plug his last two years, and he and Breunig worked so well together. Admittedly, Breunig's talents were not replaced, but Jordan's ability to anger up and fire up hasn't been replaced either.

 

[kyle_sample]

I mentioned this somewhere else, but a key feature missing appears to be team leadership. Kjrslovic is perhaps the natural at this point, but he doesn't "anger up" well. Jordan Gregory really was the spark plug his last two years, and he and Breunig worked so well together. Admittedly, Breunig's talents were not replaced, but Jordan's ability to anger up and fire up hasn't been replaced either.

This basically is right on track

 

[Mavman]

I mentioned this somewhere else, but a key feature missing appears to be team leadership. Kjrslovic is perhaps the natural at this point, but he doesn't "anger up" well. Jordan Gregory really was the spark plug his last two years, and he and Breunig worked so well together. Admittedly, Breunig's talents were not replaced, but Jordan's ability to anger up and fire up hasn't been replaced either.

This basically is right on track

So who do people think will be the "leader" next year? The Griz have the size coming in that everyone is excited about however, if leadership is lacking it will still be an issue. Will it be Rorie ,Oguine???

 

[cmtgrizzly]

Would love to see Oguine step into the leadership role but anyody with the ability to lead would be great. I am sure Travis could identify potential leaders and could facilitate their development which is a fundamental coaching skill. I still think we could do well in the BSC tourney this year if we can play team defense for a full 40 minutes. Looking forward to seeing our new big guys next year as they may make a huge impact on our level of success.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

I mentioned this somewhere else, but a key feature missing appears to be team leadership. Kjrslovic is perhaps the natural at this point, but he doesn't "anger up" well. Jordan Gregory really was the spark plug his last two years, and he and Breunig worked so well together. Admittedly, Breunig's talents were not replaced, but Jordan's ability to anger up and fire up hasn't been replaced either.

This basically is right on track

Sounds fairly similar to the Griz football team.

 

[reinell30]

Seems to be a pattern here. Lack of leadership at UM as a whole! Missing from the football team and now the Basketball team. What is the answer? Coaches have a big part in building a team leader. Yes, some leaders are natural, but most aren't. Most need the proper guidance and/or experience to become that person. Travis is real nice person and enjoyable to talk too but is he the leader he needs to be? I am not qualified to answer that question. Same question applies to Bob Stitt...

 

[616s6e]

Do the men still have an open scholarship slot? By my count, they do.

As it is, they go from an undersized team to a well-rounded team next year. They will be very good at every position with the possible lack of a lane defender/rim protector. But, at 6-10, the Wyoming recruit looks like he has a lot of promise.

But, am I right on the last scholarship?

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

Do the men still have an open scholarship slot? By my count, they do.

As it is, they go from an undersized team to a well-rounded team next year. They will be very good at every position with the possible lack of a lane defender/rim protector. But, at 6-10, the Wyoming recruit looks like he has a lot of promise.

But, am I right on the last scholarship?

They received a verbal yesterday, Niko Bevens.

 

[zengriz]

..hard not to really like this team...
...if it all ends the way it's trending...
...coaching has to go under the micro...

... :shock: ...

 

[PlayerRep]

Hard to be consistent and more than .500 when :
a team is an average shooting team,
a below average 3-point shooting team,
below average FG pct defense,
lacks depth on the front line,
and is a an average rebounding team.

To back up HHB w/regard to shooting, here are Griz field goal and 3-pt field goal stats from 2009-10 to this year so far.

YEAR ----- FG % 3 pt/fg % 3 pt/game
2009-10-- 48.3% / 40% / 6.6
2010-11-- 46.2 / 31.2 / 4.6
2011-12-- 46.3 / 37.2 / 6.1
2012-13-- 46.5 / 37.2 / 6.8
2013-14-- 48.1 / 37.4 / 7.5
2014-15-- 46.5 / 37.2 / 8.3
2015-16-- 46.5 / 37.2 / 8.0
2016-17-- 44.3%/ 34.1 / 7.0

I didn't record a comparison of percentage shot vs. shooting percentage allowed. This year the Griz are allowing opponents to shoot just over 45% per game.

That said, I firmly believe this is a team with remarkable potential. Keep in mind they've lost 7 or 8 games in either the final possession (including missed free throws) or within the final two possessions. They've won one. There's some tough luck for this Griz team this year.

I still think the Griz are capable of competing in the Big Sky finals, though it's tough to win four in a row (accomplished only by Idaho State in 1987).

Thx for the stats. Interesting. Like you, I had thought the team could make a run late in the season. My confidence is now wavering, if not fading. Based on your view, I will get my confidence back up.

 

[PlayerRep]

I think the multiple and rotating starters and up and down playing time, have created part of the problem too. Just my feeling. Wonder if the team is getting a full effort out of enough guys who are being rotated and getting such varied playing time. Doesn't seem like a formula for success, in my experience. Would need a very special team to get maximum effort out of that situation. I could see how seniors, or guys who can see that their positions will be very crowded in the future, might not be always ready or willing to give 100%. Of course, I get all my info from my wife, whose dad was a college basketball coach. Ha.

 

[kyle_sample]

Do the men still have an open scholarship slot? By my count, they do.

As it is, they go from an undersized team to a well-rounded team next year. They will be very good at every position with the possible lack of a lane defender/rim protector. But, at 6-10, the Wyoming recruit looks like he has a lot of promise.

But, am I right on the last scholarship?

They are full for next year. Nine players slated to return and four incoming players on scholarship.

 

[mtgrizrule]

I will take a stab at this, based on my observations and my past experiences as a player and coach.
It is a combination of players and coaches.

As for the coaches, I feel there are a few contributing factors.
(1) Not able to land effective post players for depth, defense, rebounding, and scoring.
It is hard for any team to consistently compete with very little post depth. As for the GRIZ, of this years rotational players, I'd only consider 2 players adequate or better post players. That would be Krslovic and Samuelson. Each with a few shortcomings, teams could take advantage of. Each have been very foul prone. I feel that is more due to the lousy officiating in the conference, than their own play.

Krslovic, is a terrific help defender and post up defender, but not much of a shot blocker. He very much relies on strength and positioning on the block. He is a very good rebounder, when the team strategy allows him to stay in the paint for rebounds. I feel his offensive game has improved a lot this season. Unfortunately, teammates are not accustomed to looking for him often. At times, he is kind of frozen out of the offense and overlooked, even when he is in position to score.

Samuelson is very efficient offensively, solid on the boards, inconsistent defensively, and needs to add strength. Fortunately, all of those things happen with experience, practice, and proper weight room drills. Samuelson has a very bright future and a great work ethic. He surpassed my expectations for him this season, by far.

The added depth and size will be a huge benefit next season, with Akoh (true PF/4, who will also play C/5). He has the bulk, height, and strength to be a huge contributor. Anderson is also so very strong, and from what I hear, can play most any position, and score from 3 levels (paint, mid range, and perimeter, maybe even penetrating too). Dorsey is long, athletic, and talented. Depending on matchups he may see some time at the 4 or post up 3. His game is more of a true 3/SF, or 2/SG). Teams will not be able to shoot as easily over Anderson and Dorsey, as they do against our smaller defenders. Add in Karl Nicholas (SF/PF) and Kelby Kramer (True Center, if needed). That will give the GRIZ 7 players who can play the 3 to 5 spots comfortably.

Meanwhile, the 2016/17 GRIZ had to rely on true perimeter oriented players to fill minutes in the post. The likes of Gfeller, Lopez, Moorehead, and even our true guards having to bang with much bigger and stronger players simply caught up to this year's team. All of those other players are beat up and/or worn down. It has dramatically impacted their perimeter shooting and mental aptitude. It does look like that Moorehead is starting to come out of it though. I feel Moorehead can be a terrific perimeter defender, and a much more consistent shooter (he does need to work on his footwork after catching the ball).

As for guards, Niko Bevins is 6'6" which will play 2/SG and 3/SF. Pridgett is 6'5", will have more experience, and be much stronger. He is a rare player who has the skill set and physical attributes to play 4 positions (1 to 4). That will leave our smaller guards (Oguine, Rorie, and Falls), who are 6'2" or shorter, to primarily focus on 1 PG/2 SG. Meanwhile this season, often these players were defending perimeter players no less than 2 inches taller than them. In turn, often had 3 short players being exposed to opposing players shooting over them, isolating them, or posting them up. I can relate to their struggles defensively in these matchups. (At 6'1", I was the tallest guy on my team, and stuck defending 6'5" plus players every time down the court. All I could do was rely on smarts, drawing charges, and getting them into foul trouble). Offensively, it was not much of a problem for me. Defensively, I often struggled against the bigger and taller guys.

In my opinion, the lack of size and depth in the post has by far been the biggest reason for the team's inconsistent play. I am not sure who the post players recruits were that Travis was expecting to land, but the GRIZ were unable to land any more. Therefore the reliance on transfers, who had to sit out this season.

The second biggest reason that is on the coaches, is experience. This staff went from a very experienced and deep staff to being very inexperienced. Losing Bone and Metzger Jones loomed hugely this season. Both helped Travis in every aspect, and there was not many obstacles for the staff to overcome. I can tell the impact of Metzger Jones loss on the perimeter shooting alone. Not sure what his tricks were to help keep the perimeter players consistent. The results went from last season to this season, went down. Maybe he was more dedicated, more in tune, or just more confident in his coaching, and the players responded better. Meanwhile this season, I am sure the primary shooters have not responded as well for the good of the team. Only the coaches and players know the true reasons for that. The only reason I can see, is mental and physical fatigue.

As for strategy, I feel the staff has consistently put together terrific game strategies and game plans. Unfortunately, the lack of size finally caught up to this team, despite great efforts of the coaches and players. The consistency just has not been there, for many reasons.

I do wonder why Walter Wright's role has changed so much? I honestly feel, Wright is best being used as a creator for his teammates, than being a Vinnie Johnson type instant scoring threat he took on this season. Last season, his playmaking for others was amazing. This season, he was way overly focused on scoring. Meanwhile, Rorie was trying to be more a playmaker, more often than Wright. I feel their roles should have been reversed. Often, Rorie could take games over anytime he was needed to, and he made it look it easy, too. I am hoping, come the tournament, the staff experiments some with their roles.

As for the players, I feel their biggest shortcomings were adjusting to all the changes in an efficient way. It has not been due to lack of effort. Physically and emotionally, they have been spent. Resulting in lost confidence and inconsistent play For the remainder of this season, I feel the staff should look inside to Krslovic, Samuelson, and Pridgett more often, just to create more balance. I also hope to see Oguine more utilized in the offense. He is a handful to guard. Then again, I am not sure how much his defense takes away from his offense. He has to exude a lot of energy being the team's best defender.

Here is to hoping the GRIZ close the season strong and catch fire in the tournament. This year's tournament is truly wide open for any of the top 6 teams to win. It should be a great tournament. #gogriz

 

[mtgrizrule]

FYI, check out Shaun Rainey's twitter account for an awesome play by Donaven Dorsey from 02/28/17 practice. This will get you pretty excited. https://twitter.com/ShaunRainey/status/836739249869205504

 

[Jaredkuehn]

I mentioned this somewhere else, but a key feature missing appears to be team leadership. Kjrslovic is perhaps the natural at this point, but he doesn't "anger up" well. Jordan Gregory really was the spark plug his last two years, and he and Breunig worked so well together. Admittedly, Breunig's talents were not replaced, but Jordan's ability to anger up and fire up hasn't been replaced either.

This basically is right on track

So who do people think will be the "leader" next year? The Griz have the size coming in that everyone is excited about however, if leadership is lacking it will still be an issue. Will it be Rorie ,Oguine???

Guys with the leadership skills like Jordan Gregory, Matt Martin and Kevin Criswell (a few over the past decade that come to mind) don't grow on trees. I don't see THAT guy on the roster right now. Oguine is electrifying, but he also seems to be a cool customer. Not sure he brings the fire to floor. I think Rorie is probably the best suited to be that guy on the team. Next year he'll be an upper classman, and will have a year of playing under his belt, and 2 full years in the system. Maybe one of our redshirts will surprise us and step into that roll next year.

I do agree that the Griz seem to be lacking a floor general.

 

[GrizLA]

As others have noted, they don't look like they are having fun. They don't seem to have a leader on the floor and the games plans, if any, are not using the talent these kids have. The Griz should be a fast playing team but instead pass it around the perimeter until someone breaks to the basket or shoots a 3. There is no one under the basket, generally, to either tip in or rebound and defense seems to be the one thing they do consistently. That is a ok plan if you make your shots, alas....
Also, I think this is a learning experience for DeCuire. He is trying to attract high caliber players and that type of guy demands play time. Hard to juggle when no one is leading. Plus, he tends to "over coach" during the game rather than rely on the coaching and practice he and the team have done for months. This is a far better team than the record indicates but the talent needs to be allowed to show itself. With at least 3 players who can drive to the basket, the way fouls are called, this would be a good opportunity to put a big guy in foul troubles and Oguine and Wright seem to do that when they see the opportunity.