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What does a 4-2-5 look like?
- Thread starter GlacierGrizX
- Start date
PR, what is your opinion of the 4-2-5 (assuming the personnel is adequate), versus more conventional defenses, against BSC competition? Apologies if this was addressed already, but it seems like a pretty nimble defense if the DBs can close on the run to the extent the run becomes a threat. Is it basically designed to keep things underneath?
Merkleman said:
Haven't been able to find any non-field level tape of the Spring Game, but one of the key ways to tell the difference between a 4-2-5 and a 3-3-5 is the positioning of the DT(s). Is there consistently one lined up over the center? If so, it's most likely 3-3-5. If not, it's probably a 4-2-5. The DE standing up doesn't really change what the defense is, or make him a linebacker for the sake of the defensive scheme.
AZGrizFan said:
I couldn’t agree more. Yaeman looked like Tarzan and played like Jane. I’m with you 100%
4theluvofgriz
Well-known member
What does a 4-2-5 look like?
Answer: An incorrect mathematical progression of numbers
Answer: An incorrect mathematical progression of numbers
Hawkeyebowhunter
Well-known member
CDAGRIZ said:
I'm not PR, but watch a replay of the Rose bowl TCU vs Wisconsin.
TCU runs the 4-2-5, Gary Patterson had about perfected it prior to moving to the Big 12. Wisconsin's power run vs the 4-2-5. Really interesting game. TCU won that in case anybody forgot.
4-2-5 doesn't mean giving up rush yards, just have to find the right guys for the system.
Bama runs a 3-4 which is essentially the same as the 4-2-5 but instead of a lb/safety hybrid they have a DL/LB hybrid. Real effective with the right 2 or 1 technique DT
Would love to see the Griz run a true 4-2-5 just have to get the players to fit the system. I think that safety transfer from Ariz would work real well in a flex position as he has the speed and weight to be a hammer
mtgrizfankb
Well-known member
GrizinTN said:
Everyone can fight over 335 or 425 but the two are virtually the same thing. one brings a big body in and one brings a linebacker down near the LOS. problem with a 335 is that you need big bodies to eat the line and your pressure all comes from the blitz. 425 has another big body in front to get pressure and beat the run and allows you to cover the flat and quick slants more efficiently. You'll probably see both from us. If you play a good OL and a good RB the 335 can get eaten alive. JMU plays a 4-2-5 and brings a safety down pretty far on short yardage situations or big sets and it turns basically to a 4-3. I don't see the griz having the horses to run a 3-3-5 to be honest. plus I would like to get 4 true DL on the field as I see it as a strength for the griz. I'm guessing we will see 4-2-5, 3-3-5 and 4-3 at times
zootownrox
Well-known member
CDAGRIZ said:
From Mavman's linked article it sounds like the opposite, designed to force the deep ball if anything. The safeties don't back pedal before their read and are more available to support the short routes/run plays.
The 4-2-5 is a modern 4-4. The coverage is different, but it looks a whole lot like cover 3. Most 4-2-5 teams use a context coverage philosophy, where they let the offense present itself before they make a dedicated man/zone call. The TCU style, back in its MWC days was a man to the weak passing threat side and a cover 2 philosophy to the passing threat side.
The 3-3-5 uses a few different iterations, depends on what 3-3-5 school you belong too. Originally when Georgia Military College made it popular, you saw a lot of man on the outside or locked zone coverage. They choose one outside receiver to man, and the rest uses a cover 2 or 3 philosophy. Because most 3-3-5 or 3-5-3 prefer one true high safety and a rover guy, you'll see more blended cover 3 stuff and a lot of rolled coverage (sliding cover three to the pass threat side).
The 4-2-5 is more stable against power run, and the coverage philosophy allows you to be very aggressive with your interior backers. You don't get a lot of prevent coverage philosophy out of it because it gives away your coverage concepts pretty easily and takes away from its chief advantage which is that QB's in a traditional 4-2-5 have a hard time pre-reading the weakside safety (looks cover 3 but can be a 2-4 look).
The 3-3-5 can be uber pressure with multiple looks, very similar in some ways to what semore liked to do. You can show a lot of variants of fronts and backer combinations, but the coverage stuff is a bit less complex than the 4-2-5 stuff. A lot more whole field zone or man, with more cover 3 than I really like.
The 3-3-5 uses a few different iterations, depends on what 3-3-5 school you belong too. Originally when Georgia Military College made it popular, you saw a lot of man on the outside or locked zone coverage. They choose one outside receiver to man, and the rest uses a cover 2 or 3 philosophy. Because most 3-3-5 or 3-5-3 prefer one true high safety and a rover guy, you'll see more blended cover 3 stuff and a lot of rolled coverage (sliding cover three to the pass threat side).
The 4-2-5 is more stable against power run, and the coverage philosophy allows you to be very aggressive with your interior backers. You don't get a lot of prevent coverage philosophy out of it because it gives away your coverage concepts pretty easily and takes away from its chief advantage which is that QB's in a traditional 4-2-5 have a hard time pre-reading the weakside safety (looks cover 3 but can be a 2-4 look).
The 3-3-5 can be uber pressure with multiple looks, very similar in some ways to what semore liked to do. You can show a lot of variants of fronts and backer combinations, but the coverage stuff is a bit less complex than the 4-2-5 stuff. A lot more whole field zone or man, with more cover 3 than I really like.
4theluvofgriz
Well-known member
Every defensive alignment can be beaten. It is a chess game between the defensive calls and the offensive calls. Obviously our coaching staff was gamed most of the time the past couple of years by the opposing coaches, which led to the results we witnessed. Perfect example being the Griz/Cat game in Missoula, when we knew in advance that the Cat QB was not going to beat us with his arm, yet our coaches could not design a game plan, nor make adjustments during the game, to stop them.
Instead of bantering about different defensive packages, I would prefer the staff focus on execution and tackling skills. Both have been painfully absent the past few years. I could care less about the package they choose to run as long as they accomplish the above two standards.
Instead of bantering about different defensive packages, I would prefer the staff focus on execution and tackling skills. Both have been painfully absent the past few years. I could care less about the package they choose to run as long as they accomplish the above two standards.
mtgrizfankb
Well-known member
4theluvofgriz said:
I don’t think our staff is bantering about anything. They are going to focus on execution and their scheme will change each week vs each team. One thing that always bugged me about the stitt staff was they all claimed if we just execute our game it doesn’t matter what they do. But yet their game was dependent on reading the other team. It had a lot of moving pieces. When it works well it worked awesome and when players struggled we could tell. One thing I like about this staff is that they are going to set a game plan and we are going to execute that(or try too) the first half and if that doesn’t work the coaches will change to a different strategy. Not saying it’s going to be perfect but I much prefer the approach Bobby always has had vs the last staffs approach. I just don’t know you can always trust 11fcs level players to make the right decision in live time to execute. Sometimes you gotta dull it down and just set their job role and hope your plan is better than theirs.
mtgrizfankb
Well-known member
'68griz said:
Wish it was that easy as just turn your head at full speed while making contact with the WR and extending your arms to create a solid position.
