Weekly Position Discussion: Week 2, Safeties

[EverettGriz]

This may be maroon colored glasses --or one too many at the Idaho Brewing Company -- but I think Hermy was very affected by his injuries last year. Watching games from 2011 and 2012, he doesn't even look like the same guy. In 2011, he was one of the team's hardest hitters, and really good in run
support. In 2012, he seemed to shy away from contact. Or even potential contact. I think he was really hurting.

Of course, as others have correctly pointed out, he had a hell of a lot more DB help in 2011. Still, I think if he's healthy we'll be fine with him.


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[uofmman1122]

This may be maroon colored glasses --or one too many at the Idaho Brewing Company -- but I think Hermy was very affected by his injuries last year. Watching games from 2011 and 2012, he doesn't even look like the same guy. In 2011, he was one of the team's hardest hitters, and really good in run
support. In 2012, he seemed to shy away from contact. Or even potential contact. I think he was really hurting.

Of course, as others have correctly pointed out, he had a hell of a lot more DB help in 2011. Still, I think if he's healthy we'll be fine with him.


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This is my hope.

I agree with Brint that he'll be on much thicker ice than Bo Tully. Bo's got a lot to prove in the first couple games to keep his job.

 

[rimrockgriz]

I've hammered our safeties into powder on previous threads this year...many times. So I'll let it go except for one thing. We seem to be drop down rich again...W.T.F.??? Can't we bring in ONE safety to clean up our deep ball mess??? You guys have said van ack is most likely going to be a will, I believe. ??????? :egriz:

 

[Hammer]

I've hammered our safeties into powder on previous threads this year...many times. So I'll let it go except for one thing. We seem to be drop down rich again...W.T.F.??? Can't we bring in ONE safety to clean up our deep ball mess??? You guys have said van ack is most likely going to be a will, I believe. ??????? :egriz:

Don't you think that part of the the problem with safety play last year was due to the fact our corners couldn't cover?

I have said before a safetys best friend is a shutdown corner. The safeties took the heat but the problem was the corners.

 

[rimrockgriz]

I've hammered our safeties into powder on previous threads this year...many times. So I'll let it go except for one thing. We seem to be drop down rich again...W.T.F.??? Can't we bring in ONE safety to clean up our deep ball mess??? You guys have said van ack is most likely going to be a will, I believe. ??????? :egriz:

Don't you think that part of the the problem with safety play last year was due to the fact our corners couldn't cover?

I have said before a safetys best friend is a shutdown corner. The safeties took the heat but the problem was the corners.

We don't agree, but once the fur starts flying we can discuss this in detail during the season. You were discussing food on the other thread..How is Lydia's??? I haven't been there in 20+. P.S. I think Josh Dennard is a stud on the rise!! :egriz:

 

[Pounder29]

I've hammered our safeties into powder on previous threads this year...many times. So I'll let it go except for one thing. We seem to be drop down rich again...W.T.F.??? Can't we bring in ONE safety to clean up our deep ball mess??? You guys have said van ack is most likely going to be a will, I believe. ??????? :egriz:

Don't you think that part of the the problem with safety play last year was due to the fact our corners couldn't cover?

I have said before a safetys best friend is a shutdown corner. The safeties took the heat but the problem was the corners.

I would tend to disagree that the "corners" were not shut down as they were put in a scheme that played to the whole defensive scheme of "keep it in front of you", and not man to man face up coverage. So the oppurtunity to be a shutdown if there is such, was not there nor a decision they were allowed to make. And when that theory of "keep it in front of you" broke down the safeties were EXPOSED. They couldn't cover the post nor could they tackle. As the safety position goes the athlete should be able to cover in space and be responsible for an area of field, since they did neither hence a 660 yard QB day. IMHO the secondary will be better this year.

It's just an opinion.

 

[Ken Jones]

NEVER DOUBT MY KNOWLEDGE AGAIN!

And yes, this post is FULL of speculation on players abilities and hopefully rebounding from last year.

Fine, but PLEASE tell me he doesn't weigh 195 like his GoGriz bio says... :? :?

I agree with azgrizfan on this,,,sure quickness will help in some situations, but linebackers have to take on fullbacks and pulling guards and tackles most of the time....there is a reason why most linebackers are in that 230 pound range....

Last season, Kendrick played weak side linebacker against USC. He played well against USC @ approximately 205 pounds.

 

[Gaeilge1]

Just catching up here. After last year's debacle in the secondary the biggest issue they face is going back to basics. Hopefully this will be priority #1 with the new secondary coaches. Last year's coaches didn't seem to grasp that concept because the player's kept making the same mistakes all year. All of the coverage schemes in the world aren't going to amount to doodley squat if you can't tackle and you can't keep your opponent from getting behind you. It doesn't matter who is playing the position if they can't do those two things. The other thing I think may have happened last year was a lack of leadership on the field itself. No one assumed the mantle left by the departed seniors. Again, I attribute that to a lack of direction from the coaching staff.

Sure, there are going to be times when you will get caught on a deep ball, but that should be the exception, not the rule. Whether it was injuries, lack of support or some other reason for Hermanson last year past and not relevant at this point. What is relevant is that Hermey will have to step into that leadership role in the secondary this year and if need be call some people out if they are screwing up. Tully needs to learn how to tackle in the first place. He has been lacking in that fundamental since he got here.

As for the rest of them I haven't seen enough to comment. I am not sure that the Van Ackeren move is the best option but one thing it does do will be to lend better short pass coverage to the outside backer corp and that certainly can't hurt the screen defense.

I look for improved secondary play this year for two reasons. The first is that I don't think it is possible that they could get any worse and the second is I believe that the change in coaching will improve the basics.

 

[Grisly Fan]

The toughest part about last year was watching them play soft and still give up big plays whether a deep throw or (or most often) YAC. The theory with keeping everything in front of you is of course bend but don't break. A 660 yard day should theoretically be impossible unless you are both bent and broken -- and they were for most of the year. I suppose it could have be worse but I have to believe they will somehow improve this year. If not, JJ's return will only be a footnote to what will be a poor outcome.

 

[Ken Jones]

For the Griz to be as successful in 2013 as they should be, they need the safety position to step up. Somebody newer to the depth chart has to emerge in Gamboa or Van Ackeren or Whitted to spell one of the starters or Hermanson must return to the great play he showed at the end of 2011. The team can get by with one of their weaker defensive starters playing safety, but not two!!

I realize LB depth took a hit with Maus and Holt quitting the team before spring ball, but I just can't see how Van Ackeren doesn't play safety knowing that's supposedly why he transferred here. I believe we have a much greater need at starting safety than backup outside linebacker. If there is a depth issue at linebacker, then it appears to be in the middle anyway where Kendrick doesn't play.

LB Starters: MLB - Coyle, OLB - Tripp, OLB - K'anngota, Backups: OLB - Lebsock, OLB - Lippert, MLB/OLB - Kose, incoming Schye & I think you're going to see Connor Strahm moved to linebacker when he arrives based on comments from Ty.

Here are some of coach Delaney's comments on Van Ackeren:
"He's a good sized safety who can really run. We haven't had a safety like that physically for awhile. We are really looking forward to the impact that he will make in our secondary."

That sounds like a strong safety if I ever heard one described.

When were Delaney's comments made? Recently or a long time ago?

PR - Good point, the comments were made on signing day. Maybe coach's thinking has changed, but I hope not...

http://www.gogriz.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/020613aaz.html

Yeah, yeah, yeah! He transferred from the University of Hawai'i to play safety at the University of Montana. If he was goin' to play outside (weakside) linebacker, he should of stayed at Hawaii and play Division l football against USC, OSU and other top 25 ranked BCS programs!

Most collegiate football recruiters are like used car salesmen; they can't be trusted.

The collegiate student-athletes need legal representation.

That noted, I'm sure KVA will contribute to the Griz at his best level.

 

[nzone]

Play him where it gives the Griz the best chance of winning....Safety :thumb:

 

[griz5700]

Do not understand those who think Van Ackeren is the answer at safety. He played LB at Hawaii because he didn't have the skill or speed needed to play safety. Our coaches probably saw exactly what Hawaii's staff saw and moved him to LB. Not a big deal.

 

[Raider]

Do not understand those who think Van Ackeren is the answer at safety. He played LB at Hawaii because he didn't have the skill or speed needed to play safety. Our coaches probably saw exactly what Hawaii's staff saw and moved him to LB. Not a big deal.

The problem with your argument is that you assume that the coaching staffs at Hawaii or UM know more than the e-studs on this site. Big assumption.

Just ask trollmayor.

 

[BWahlberg]

Do not understand those who think Van Ackeren is the answer at safety. He played LB at Hawaii because he didn't have the skill or speed needed to play safety. Our coaches probably saw exactly what Hawaii's staff saw and moved him to LB. Not a big deal.

The problem with your argument is that you assume that the coaching staffs at Hawaii or UM know more than the e-studs on this site. Big assumption.

Just ask trollmayor.

Ha - both these posts are full of win.

I was going to post - the guy couldn't break through the 3rd string in spring camp. Now that might just be because he's brand new to the team. However if he was/is the "great hope" that "has to" start - but can't surpass 5 other safeties already on the team... then maybe some of the e-studs on here just were wrong in what they hoped he'd become as a safety.

 

[grizfan95]

Do not understand those who think Van Ackeren is the answer at safety. He played LB at Hawaii because he didn't have the skill or speed needed to play safety. Our coaches probably saw exactly what Hawaii's staff saw and moved him to LB. Not a big deal.

The problem with your argument is that you assume that the coaching staffs at Hawaii or UM know more than the e-studs on this site. Big assumption.

Just ask trollmayor.

Ha - both these posts are full of win.

I was going to post - the guy couldn't break through the 3rd string in spring camp. Now that might just be because he's brand new to the team. However if he was/is the "great hope" that "has to" start - but can't surpass 5 other safeties already on the team... then maybe some of the e-studs on here just were wrong in what they hoped he'd become as a safety.

Didn't you just post on MaroonBlood that V Ackeren will really help at safety?

 

[AllWeatherFan]

The best defense is a good offense! :twisted:

 

[HighLineGRIZ]

Do not understand those who think Van Ackeren is the answer at safety. He played LB at Hawaii because he didn't have the skill or speed needed to play safety. Our coaches probably saw exactly what Hawaii's staff saw and moved him to LB. Not a big deal.

The problem with your argument is that you assume that the coaching staffs at Hawaii or UM know more than the e-studs on this site. Big assumption.

Just ask trollmayor.

Ha - both these posts are full of win.

I was going to post - the guy couldn't break through the 3rd string in spring camp. Now that might just be because he's brand new to the team. However if he was/is the "great hope" that "has to" start - but can't surpass 5 other safeties already on the team... then maybe some of the e-studs on here just were wrong in what they hoped he'd become as a safety.

Completely agree. Thank you!! I think people are so desperate for an answer at safety that when they see a drop down who played the position at a high level in high school, they get all geeked out about it and think that the player is an automatic lock to start and better our ranks. That just isn't always the case... If the kid can better help us out at LB than at S, then that's where he should be in. I'll take the coaches word for it who evaluate the kid on a day to day basis and know how to evaluate skill over guys who watch youtube videos and look at stats.

 

[BWahlberg]

It's the automatic assumption that just because someone is a new addition/transfer they have to be better than the current roster guys we have. In some rare cases that's true. In others it isn't. For this one it's magnified b/c safety play was pretty bad last year.

 

[Ken Jones]

It's the automatic assumption that just because someone is a new addition/transfer they have to be better than the current roster guys we have. In some rare cases that's true. In others it isn't. For this one it's magnified b/c safety play was pretty bad last year.

I'm beyond the position debate. I'm sure KVA will perform admirably at weak-side linebacker.

Now, I'm getting into the morality of the collegiate athletic programs and NCAA rules. If a player is promised an opportunity to play a position and that promise lures a player to a different program, that players should have a complete season to adjust and play at the promised position without thread of scholarship cancellation. If the promise is broken, then the NCAA restrictions on the transferring student-athlete should be rescinded, the student-athlete should be allowed to transfer to any program of their choice and take the first year of the scholarship with them.

What are your thoughts?

 

[uofmman1122]

It's the automatic assumption that just because someone is a new addition/transfer they have to be better than the current roster guys we have. In some rare cases that's true. In others it isn't. For this one it's magnified b/c safety play was pretty bad last year.

I'm beyond the position debate. I'm sure KVA will perform admirably at weak-side linebacker.

Now, I'm getting into the morality of the collegiate athletic programs and NCAA rules. If a player is promised an opportunity to play a position and that promise lures a player to a different program, that players should have a complete season to adjust and play at the promised position without thread of scholarship cancellation. If the promise is broken, then the NCAA restrictions on the transferring student-athlete should be rescinded, the student-athlete should be allowed to transfer to any program of his choice and take the first year of the scholarship with them.

What are your thoughts?

That's ridiculous.

In this instance, the kid came here with the hopes of getting a shot at safety. He got his shot. He didn't show enough to warrant a starting gig. He could of course say he won't switch positions, but he will likely just sit on the bench. This is his opportunity to play and contribute in a meaningful way. If he doesn't like that, then by all means, leave. He could probably drop down to D2 and be an all-world safety.