Weekly Position Discussion: Week 1, QBs

[wbtfg]

Is the berserker still on the team?

 

[grizfan95]

Is the berserker still on the team?

He left months ago.

 

[George Ferguson]

Here's an interesting take on JJ from a Bobcat fan on BN. "I don't care what most think, Mr. Moore was THE biggest reason they did so well. Just look at the first part of the season for the Griz, they went down there and competed well against a much better team(ASU). You take Moore away and you can take with it most of the wins in 2011 and 2012. The man was not only a huge runner, he was also a fantastic blocker, giving JJ plenty of time to pull off a lot of the tricks that he did."

Interestingly, Dan Moore didn't play with JJ last year, and against Sam Houston State in the semifinals in 2011, Moore had 5 carries for four yards. No denying DM was a beast, but in 2011, he was Montana's FOURTH LEADING RUSHER, behind Peter, Canada, and JJ.

I'm not really certain why Bobcat fans are trying to discredit JJ or whatever the point of Tomcat's post actually was. I think all Egrizzers will surrender the fact that JJ was not really sound in the passing game through the first six games of 2011, actually looking pretty awful at times. But he started clicking thereafter, and as a whole, the spread really started clicking too with PN and Canada really being the beneficiaries of JJ's run-pass threat the final eight games of the season. Is Tomcat really trying to say that because the Griz had a huge line, good backs and Jabin Sambrano, that the offensive output of the last eight games of 2011 would have been the exact same with Nate Montana or RS fresh SSH or true frosh Trent McKinney at the helm? I sincerely hope not. I guess the point is, I don't understand the point. You would have to be a complete MORON to say the Griz would have still gone to the semis and went toe-to-toe with Sammy even if Jordan Johnson didn't exist.

Now, having said all of that, there is no way, on June 3, you can possibly say JJ will do the same this fall. He sat out an entire year, and while I'm super pumped to have him back, time will tell what kind of QB he'll be this coming fall.

 

[CrunchGriz]

Just to reiterate and summarize what others above have said, in a nutshell Griz fans are excited about the return of #10 because:

1. In his last six games of 2011, this is his stat line:

Comp.%	Yards/Att.	TD%	Int.%	NCAA QB Rating
63	    7.5          8.9   1.9     151.5

Comp.    Att.    TDs    Int.
99       157     14     3

Rushes    Rushing Yds.     Yards/Rush
42        265              6.3

As others have noted here, using the second half of the season is instructive because: a) He was young and growing into the role early in the season, and made a lot of his mistakes in one game (Sac State), when he took more high risk chances than in any other game of the year (which was partly a coaching gamble); and b) he was hobbled for the first half of the season, rendering his running threat nearly moot, which allowed teams to pin their ears back and come after him more.

In his last six games, here are his completion percentages (rounded to the nearest percent):
72%
69%
48%
64%
65%
64%

With the exception of the 'Cat game, he never dipped below 63+%, and the last three were against playoff opponents, some of the best teams in the country.

One other thing to remember about JJ's accuracy: His percentages would be a tick or two higher, except for the fact that he is very smart about and adept at throwing the ball away rather than taking a costly sack. I don't know the exact number of throw-aways he had in 2011, but it seemed rather frequent. Regardless, he is a very difficult QB to sack. The Griz went from one of the highest number of sacks against in the country in FCS in 2010 with Roper at QB to one of the lowest with JJ in charge in 2011. He very seldom kills drives with a stupid coverage sack.

 

[Ursa Major]

I'd like to see Jordy as starter and Gus right behind him. We've already seen what TM & SS-H can do. And hopefully we won't ever have to witness that again.

TomCat88 on BN posted this and thought it was interesting:

The JJ factor is an interesting one to look at.

Do people think UM had better, the same, or worse talent around their QBs last year as it did in 2011?
Is JJ slightly or significantly better skills-wise or as a leader or both than last year's QBs?

I tend to think UM had less talent overall last year and that JJ was significantly better skills-wise. So it wasn't just JJ that made UM an 11-3 team in 2011. The only problem I have with my thinking on this is that the stats don't offer much support, because if JJ was on a better overall team and if he's a significantly better QB, then his stats should've been significantly better. I can't figure out why they weren't.

JJ had a QB rating of 133.5, while the UM QBs last year were at 130.9. JJ was 7.0 ypa and 59.8 completion pct., the 2011 QBs were 6.9 and 63.4. JJ ran for 506 on 89 carries (5.7 ypc) for 4 TDs in 13 games, while the QBs last year had 428 on 114 carries (3.9 ypc) for 7 TDs in 11 games. The only category he was significantly better statistically was ypc.

Could it be that JJ is similar to McKinney and Smithwick-Hann? If so, would that mean either his leadership skills carried the team or that it was a matter of UM having much more talent in 2011?

What your 2011 season stats don't show is that UM started poorly and improved throughout the year and was very good the last half - with outstanding QB play AND leadership from the young developing true soph, JJ. He is still developing and will be even better this year.

Great information. I would reiterate that Tom's analysis doesn't look at JJ's growth by the end of the season. Anybody that watched the 2012 GSA spring game in Missoula saw how far JJ has come. I believe he was 14 for 14 passing and made a ton of incredible plays. JJ may not have the best skills in any one area, but he ranks highly across the board. In many respects he reminds me of DD with his ability to just get it done. He is a great leader and he finds a way to win. The griz sorely missed him in 2012. The 2013 team will go along way with him at the helm. Anybody who thinks otherwise hasn't watched football to understand that some quarterbacks have the intangibles and some just don't.

Good post--the kid has the intangibles and finds a way to win--Just like DD.

 

[rimrockgriz]

buckets of good posts here...but anyone comparing any q.b. (jj) to DD, Dave Dicker, Super Dave, "15" I have to really question their motives or sanity. :roll: :roll: Titles...numbers to the moon...and we're throwing in "Legend of the Fall" in the discussion??? :lol: :lol: Wipe your a$$ on the arm the strength comments. Dave's arm was avg. to slightly over avg. at best. I haven't seen a SINGLE egrizzer comment on touch in this thread . A huge asset to completing 70% in a tackle football game...JJ will have a tiny bit of rust at times, but I'm expecting great overall performance and the playoffs. :egriz:

 

[Ursa Major]

I think that any of us that lived through that era will inevitably compare any QB that straps on a Griz helmet to DD. Fairly or unfairly. Different era, different offense--doesn't matter. The reality testing comes not in the comparison of a certain quality/skill a QB has to DD but when folks start saying X is better or as good as DD was in total. Hopefully we can have a serious discussion and comparison like that someday. Today is not that day.

I always think of Brian Ah Yat when we have these discussions. Another small, smart kid that was a non-
prototypical QB but an overachiever. He is often forgotten or at least overshadowed because he played right after DD.

 

[grizfan95]

I think that any of us that lived through that era will inevitably compare any QB that straps on a Griz helmet to DD. Fairly or unfairly. Different era, different offense--doesn't matter. The reality testing comes not in the comparison of a certain quality/skill a QB has to DD but when folks start saying X is better or as good as DD was in total. Hopefully we can have a serious discussion and comparison like that someday. Today is not that day.

I always think of Brian Ah Yat when we have these discussions. Another small, smart kid that was a non-
prototypical QB but an overachiever. He is often forgotten or at least overshadowed because he played right after DD.

Ah Yat was the 2nd best QB to play here. Between Ochs and Ah Yat, I'd go Ah Yat each time.

 

[Raider]

I think that any of us that lived through that era will inevitably compare any QB that straps on a Griz helmet to DD. Fairly or unfairly. Different era, different offense--doesn't matter. The reality testing comes not in the comparison of a certain quality/skill a QB has to DD but when folks start saying X is better or as good as DD was in total. Hopefully we can have a serious discussion and comparison like that someday. Today is not that day.

I always think of Brian Ah Yat when we have these discussions. Another small, smart kid that was a non-
prototypical QB but an overachiever. He is often forgotten or at least overshadowed because he played right after DD.

Ah Yat was the 2nd best QB to play here. Between Ochs and Ah Yat, I'd go Ah Yat each time.

No

 

[grizfan95]

I think that any of us that lived through that era will inevitably compare any QB that straps on a Griz helmet to DD. Fairly or unfairly. Different era, different offense--doesn't matter. The reality testing comes not in the comparison of a certain quality/skill a QB has to DD but when folks start saying X is better or as good as DD was in total. Hopefully we can have a serious discussion and comparison like that someday. Today is not that day.

I always think of Brian Ah Yat when we have these discussions. Another small, smart kid that was a non-
prototypical QB but an overachiever. He is often forgotten or at least overshadowed because he played right after DD.

Ah Yat was the 2nd best QB to play here. Between Ochs and Ah Yat, I'd go Ah Yat each time.

No

To each their own. I loved Ah Yat's heart and determination. Ochs is probably the better QB in technical skills but there's more to it than that. Ah Yat played his senior year with some serious injuries as well.

 

[wbtfg]

It's nice to finally have a thread discussing UM quarterback play that is actually about football and free from name calling, cheap shots, missoulian/florio references...etc. Welcome back, egriz.

 

[Montanan]

It's nice to finally have a thread discussing UM quarterback play that is actually about football and free from name calling, cheap shots, missoulian/florio references...etc. Welcome back, egriz.

ya, it was!

 

[brian s]

buckets of good posts here...but anyone comparing any q.b. (jj) to DD, Dave Dicker, Super Dave, "15" I have to really question their motives or sanity. :roll: :roll: Titles...numbers to the moon...and we're throwing in "Legend of the Fall" in the discussion??? :lol: :lol: Wipe your a$$ on the arm the strength comments. Dave's arm was avg. to slightly over avg. at best. I haven't seen a SINGLE egrizzer comment on touch in this thread . A huge asset to completing 70% in a tackle football game...JJ will have a tiny bit of rust at times, but I'm expecting great overall performance and the playoffs. :egriz:

I was comparing a sophomore QB (JJ) to a sophomore Dickinson, not the finished product that led us to a National Championship. I am saying that JJ has very similar qualities as DD, and has a chance to be very good. Don't get butt-hurt cause someone dares to make a comparison to the chosen one.

 

[garizzalies]

...I think all Egrizzers will surrender the fact that JJ was not really sound in the passing game through the first six games of 2011, actually looking pretty awful at times...

Speak for yourself, homes. I came on here shortly after the CP game to proclaim that i had witnessed "the best PASSING drive" in about a decade. I agree the offense sputtered during the first half of 2011, but i don't believe that was because of JJ's passing ability or accuracy (which is what i understood your post to mean).

 

[rimrockgriz]

Brian S... to compare to Dave Dickinson is hilarious. :lol: Nice back pedal to DD's soph year in 1993. #15 had a pedestrian campaign... for him :? I guess. 262/390 67.18% 32 td 9 int. >3600 yds. 168.00 Q.B. rating. 10-2 record. Notation: a q.b. for Northern Iowa that year threw for 58% completion and had a td to int ratio of 16/13. His name is Kurt Warner... :grenade: :egriz:

 

[EverettGriz]

It's worthy of note that for most of the first half of 2011, Jordy was really banged up, and hobbling on a bad ankle. No doubt it affected his play.

The one advantage JJ has over many of the great UM QBs is his ability to make a play with his feet.

 

[zirge]

some thought.........mostly an opinion
shouldn't we line up Trent at times as the inside slot receiver to be given the chance to run with the ball....doesn't he like to run more that throw the ball?
guess this all comes down to, if Brady qualifies himself to be the backup qb this year.....or if the coaches put Shay in that spot by default...
my belief this could happen if he (Brady) steps up and Trent shows he likes catching the ball.

 

[brian s]

Brian S... to compare to Dave Dickinson is hilarious. :lol: Nice back pedal to DD's soph year in 1993. #15 had a pedestrian campaign... for him :? I guess. 262/390 67.18% 32 td 9 int. >3600 yds. 168.00 Q.B. rating. 10-2 record. Notation: a q.b. for Northern Iowa that year threw for 58% completion and had a td to int ratio of 16/13. His name is Kurt Warner... :grenade: :egriz:

Apples and oranges. DD ran Read's run-n-shoot. Lots of short high-percentage passes designed to have lots of yards after the catch. JJ had to play in a ridiculous spread-option offense which we did not have the personnel to run. Your examples are like trying to compare Adrian Petersen to Jim Brown. Next!

 

[griz5700]

It's Dickenson not Dickinson

 

[pussycatkillerz]

...I think all Egrizzers will surrender the fact that JJ was not really sound in the passing game through the first six games of 2011, actually looking pretty awful at times...

Speak for yourself, homes. I came on here shortly after the CP game to proclaim that i had witnessed "the best PASSING drive" in about a decade. I agree the offense sputtered during the first half of 2011, but i don't believe that was because of JJ's passing ability or accuracy (which is what i understood your post to mean).

Poly Board: