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Wayne Tankle - Once again people, not head coaching material
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AtHomeInTheDahlbergDen
Well-known member
I don't know if this is coaching or players but why aren't these guys shooting like 1000 FTs a day?
GrizBBIsKing
Well-known member
beastie said:
You, sir, are wrong. Execution is equivalent to taking the test. The teacher is equivalent to the coach. Practice is equivalent to studying for the test. Successful execution of basketball game is equivalent to passing the test. How a player practices (studies) is really up to the player not the coach (teacher). if all coaches (teachers) did a great job, then every player (student) would execute to success (pass the test with an A) everytime. Now, conversely, if all coaches(teachers) did a lousy job, then every player (student) would execute with failure (fail the test) everytime. Of course, that never happens, as there are always some student who fails no matter how good the teacher is. Same for how good a coach is, there will always be a player who doesn't follow what the coaches tell them no matter how good the coach is. During the game (test) it is up to the players (student) to execute (pass the test) based on what the coach (teacher) taught them.
Practice (studying) is really up to the player and not the coach, although, the coach (teacher) can certainly assist the player (student), but it is still ultimately the players (students) responsibility.
The best teams have more players that are following what the coaches say and/or are more capable of it (that would also go with students with following a teacher's lesson plan).
There are so many factors in determining who (coach or teacher) or the players(students). There is also parts that a coach (teacher) cannot control that only the player can (e.g. players mentality, moods, etc).
As for the Griz, Tinkle is still learning, so cannot call him a great coach yet. Also, there are some players that are just not following what the coaches are teaching them. IMO, I think the players mood is affecting the players to a degree, that it may not be a matter how good the coach is. It has been discussed many times of the loss of key players in positions that Griz are having trouble with like the 3. Coach has no control over that.
So, in my opinion, it is a combination of an inexperienced coach but still learning and getting better, and players that are not executing because of either lack of ability, bad moods from losing by only 1 or 2 points so often.
But, it appears beastie has been laying all the blame on Tinkle. that is so wrong. Especially, putting blame on Tinkle when it is the players fault. I think maybe Beastie better wait a couple more years before he starts blaming the coach. By, then, Tinkle will be coaching players with better capability and he will also be more experienced in being a head coach. Sure was nice to have Krysko for a couple years (even though his recruiting may have been a bit suspect), but he did have some parts that Tinkle never had. Tinkle will have more players with better capability to work with next couple years. Just wait. It will get better.
Just layoff tinkle because you do not know what you say.
Grizbacker1
Well-known member
AtHomeInTheDahlbergDen said:
If there is a flaw in the shooters form, then shooting 1000 shots is not going to help. FT shooting is not that hard, and much of it is mental. There are tons of instructional videos out there. The Dallas Mavericks shoot 83% as a team and still keep a FT shooting coach. His name is Gary Boren and he has a video out on FT shooting. It sure couldn't hurt. :twocents:
AtHomeInTheDahlbergDen
Well-known member
A lot of people shoot free throws all different ways with various imperfections in their form. I agree that a lot, probably most, of it is mental. Building that mental toughness is done by seeing the ball go through the basket over and over and over again.Grizbacker1 said:AtHomeInTheDahlbergDen said:
If there is a flaw in the shooters form, then shooting 1000 shots is not going to help. FT shooting is not that hard, and much of it is mental. There are tons of instructional videos out there. The Dallas Mavericks shoot 83% as a team and still keep a FT shooting coach. His name is Gary Boren and he has a video out on FT shooting. It sure couldn't hurt. :twocents:
Grizbacker1
Well-known member
AtHomeInTheDahlbergDen said:A lot of people shoot free throws all different ways with various imperfections in their form. I agree that a lot, probably most, of it is mental. Building that mental toughness is done by seeing the ball go through the basket over and over and over again.Grizbacker1 said:AtHomeInTheDahlbergDen said:
If there is a flaw in the shooters form, then shooting 1000 shots is not going to help. FT shooting is not that hard, and much of it is mental. There are tons of instructional videos out there. The Dallas Mavericks shoot 83% as a team and still keep a FT shooting coach. His name is Gary Boren and he has a video out on FT shooting. It sure couldn't hurt. :twocents:
True, but I would rather have someone shooting 250 a night with some purpose, than rapid firing 1000 just to say they did it. I also think you have to simulate game conditions. I am sure the Griz do it, they just are not going to the line with confidence, as you mentioned. I think players should strive to get to the line, but that is just me. I like aggressive basketball.
AtHomeInTheDahlbergDen
Well-known member
Well I'd say 1000 makes then.
I also think we need to put pressure on opponents and get to the line. It opens up so many things. Problem is, I'm not sure we have the guy to do this. Sure, anyone can, but only few with effectiveness. Cam should be able to and CET has the ability but he's not a great FT shooter.
I also think we need to put pressure on opponents and get to the line. It opens up so many things. Problem is, I'm not sure we have the guy to do this. Sure, anyone can, but only few with effectiveness. Cam should be able to and CET has the ability but he's not a great FT shooter.
Grizbacker1
Well-known member
AtHomeInTheDahlbergDen said:
CET is capable of making them. He made 6 straight at crunch time at Sac, so he is capable.
AtHomeInTheDahlbergDen
Well-known member
Maybe he's like Rodman. Not quite mentally there when he's at the line and it's not worth much but in crunch time he turns into reggie miller.Grizbacker1 said:
A couple points....
1) I said this earlier. Discipline is the coach's responsibility, execution is the player's. The coach has to put his players in the best situations to be successful. This is at practice, in games, and even off the court.
It is up to the player to execute the tasks at hand. In my opinion, this team lacks discipline and doesn't execute very well on top of it.
2) Free throws are the easiest shot in basketball. Technique isn't a huge deal, it's more about repetition. Every player has to pick a comfortable way to shoot them, and repeat everything from the approach to the follow through. It has to become a subconscious act, kind of like breathing. There is no thinking involved with FTs, you just do it.
A player should be able to set their feet, close their eyes, and then go through the routine and hit 70%. The variables are exactly the same for every FT. There's no need to "shoot" free throws - just execute the same routine every time.
Coaching can only accomplish so much in FT shooting. It's the player's responsibility to make each FT attempt exactly the same. This usually means placing more emphasis on FTs in practice, and relaxing during games. Most players at this level with FT shooting woes lack focus and mental discipline.
I guarantee that there are more than a few players on this team who don't take FTs seriously enough during practice. The coaches can yell and rip on them as much as they want, but until the players make a decision to prioritize FT shooting - it doesn't matter what a coach does.
1) I said this earlier. Discipline is the coach's responsibility, execution is the player's. The coach has to put his players in the best situations to be successful. This is at practice, in games, and even off the court.
It is up to the player to execute the tasks at hand. In my opinion, this team lacks discipline and doesn't execute very well on top of it.
2) Free throws are the easiest shot in basketball. Technique isn't a huge deal, it's more about repetition. Every player has to pick a comfortable way to shoot them, and repeat everything from the approach to the follow through. It has to become a subconscious act, kind of like breathing. There is no thinking involved with FTs, you just do it.
A player should be able to set their feet, close their eyes, and then go through the routine and hit 70%. The variables are exactly the same for every FT. There's no need to "shoot" free throws - just execute the same routine every time.
Coaching can only accomplish so much in FT shooting. It's the player's responsibility to make each FT attempt exactly the same. This usually means placing more emphasis on FTs in practice, and relaxing during games. Most players at this level with FT shooting woes lack focus and mental discipline.
I guarantee that there are more than a few players on this team who don't take FTs seriously enough during practice. The coaches can yell and rip on them as much as they want, but until the players make a decision to prioritize FT shooting - it doesn't matter what a coach does.
beastie
Well-known member
There is this concept called sports psychology or Jedi Mind Tricks. Coaches can actually have a heavy influence the mentality of players. This is developed at evere level, throughout the year, on the practice court, in the coaches offices, meetings, media, etc...
For example when Tinkle stated in the paper over the summer, "Cameron is so good, he can pick if he want to play the point or shooting guard" --horrible sports psychology from Tinks.
Should say, "Cam had a pretty good Freshman year, but really needs to have a great summer, come in and compete for a starting job", "He has a lot of work to do".
When Tinkle continualy makes statements in the press, "we were not ready, guys lacked focus, we came out flat, we can't do anything else as coaches" this impacts the teams psychology.
Coaches directly influence a teams mental toughness. The griz are weak minded currently. Among many other things, Tinkle needs to learn tact of psychology and creating tough minded players...who make free throws in the clutch
Hammer, you are a liar on both counts. Alpha's dishonesty has apparently rubbed off on you. I'm still waiting for our bet on the "threat" (which, as you know, Alpha inserted in my PM). I have the hard copy of my PM. It's not possible for me to have altered it. Put up or shut up, Hammer. I also have the hard copies of AG2's multiple threats of my wife and family. Want to make a bet on whether those threats occurred. Most of them are probably still on the board.
mtgrizrule
Well-known member
Playerrep, Hammer, I have nothing against either of you. I think you both contribute alot to this board, and do not take me as starting anything. Can we please keep the personal part of whatever happened off these threads, and keep it private as it should be? I appreciate it, and thanks in advance. :thumb: :beer2: :drinking: 
arty:
arty:
PlayerRep said:
I already said I'm not going to bet because I don't believe there is any way to prove it one way or another. Your hard copies do not mean "Jack shit" to me. I also noticed you ignored Alpha's bet of $5000 dollars that you did make the statement. Scared of that bet PR?
Grizbacker1
Well-known member
mtgrizrule said:Playerrep, Hammer, I have nothing against either of you. I think you both contribute alot to this board, and do not take me as starting anything. Can we please keep the personal part of whatever happened off these threads, and keep it private as it should be? I appreciate it, and thanks in advance. :thumb: :beer2: :drinking:
Let me buy you a drink, that is never going to happen.
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