Watching the Lady Griz

[becker2117]

becker - I'm guessing title IX type stuff, since we don't have a bunch of "womens only" sports.

but 15 scolarships would have to be consistant with every D1 womens basketball program..right?

Hmm, I honestly think it depends on the other sports the U has to offer, but I dunno for sure. It would make sense that it is that way, but we all know how the NCAA works.

haha true, i was just going off how football does it i guess....i know its consistant across the board for FBS, FCS, and D2..at least i think it is

 

[WyomingGrizFan]

I think also some of the "issue" is just how Selvig recruits. The budget (if I'm remembering right) is miniscule, and to be honest, the womens game is moving away from a chess type game, and more to an athletic type game. That alone means there is less and less women to recruit the type of O the lady griz run. Plus, Robin seems to love recruiting the 5/10 - 6/1 "versatile" player that he just coaches up.

I don't have an argument with the "versatile" players that are recruited for the LG. One must remember that, over the years, that the LG have had a terrible time keeping their point guards healthy: whether it's a Shannon Green (1980-81), a Shelli Sniffin (1986-89), a Colleen McNally (1987-91), a Vicki Austin (1988-90), a Megan Harrington (1996-00), a Jackie DeShazer (2003-04), or a Michela Schmitz (2004-06).

Also the fact that at various times a shooting guard had to fill in for a missing point guard. I believe Cheri Bratt played one year as a point guard, then a Barb Kavanagh for a couple years it seems, then a Natalie Streeter for a missing Margaret Williams one year. Skyla Cisco missing some time as well to a knee injury. Then a shooting guard filling in for a whole year like a Lynsey Monaco and a Mandy Morales for the better part of her career; this besides a Karyn Ridgeway that was a post player in high school doing the point guard duties back in 87-88. I think there was a Cami Schenk out of Fairfield (2000-02) as well that was a recruited point guard that didn't play whatsoever.

Now we have a backup point guard in a Kellie Cole that, for all intends and purposes, was a shooting guard primarily in high school. This with a Haley Vining sitting on the bench for a year and a half that was supposed to have been the best point guard in the state coming out of high school.

It may be a coaching "philosophy" that ascertains the "need" for these "versatile" players but I haven't seen where it's a detriment over the long run.

 

[MissoulaMarinerFan]

I wasn't saying it is/was a detriment, I'm just saying that for all intents and purposes that philosophy has won the big sky, but won't really get farther than that. I'm just questioning how much longer even that philosophy will keep the ladies atop the big sigh.

 

[mtgriz]

THAT is about the worst reffing I have ever seen. Does anyone from the conference monitor these refs?

They are doing their very best. What more do you want from them?

Getting officials in just about every sport these days is a challenge. The further down the food chain you go the tougher it gets. If you don't like it...take a couple months, study the rules book, and put your name in the hopper.

 

[BelierPeaux]

I would think the disparity in Basketball scholarships has something to do with the fact that Men's football has a ton of scholarships and the extra in Women's basketball helps make up for that disparity.

 

[ISUguy]

Copper....getting close to the truth. More could be said about the recruiting subject, but I'll leave that to someone else. Are we giving these ladies full ride scholarships?

Not sure about and how they split the scholarships Spanky, but I was informed the women have 15 (men get 12) full scholarships to offer. I believe D2 have 10 full rides and and NAIA (division 2 like Carroll) only get 6 full scholarships.

Men get 13 scholarships, the women 15, and they can't be "split," as they are in football.

BTW, I think you're underselling the Big Sky as a women's conference. Current RPI has the Big Sky ranked the No. 16 conference in the country (out of 33 D-1 leagues), just one behind the Mountain West at No. 15.

 

[AllWeatherFan]

I think also some of the "issue" is just how Selvig recruits. The budget (if I'm remembering right) is miniscule, and to be honest, the womens game is moving away from a chess type game, and more to an athletic type game. That alone means there is less and less women to recruit the type of O the lady griz run. Plus, Robin seems to love recruiting the 5/10 - 6/1 "versatile" player that he just coaches up. For the last however many years, it's good enough to win the Big Sigh, and that has been good enough for fans. Pretty soon though (within 3/4 years) I'm guessing this strategy won't even work to win the big sigh anymore. The thing is, it's working for him, I just wonder how long it will continue to work, and just how long lady griz fans will be content with winning the big sigh, and then getting beat like a drum in the NCAA tourney.

Yeah, that's a great post.

Robin is a great coach, a legendary coach. There's no argument there. But watching the MSU game, you have to wonder, ever-so-slightly, if the game might be passing us by.

I agree that we may even eke out a conference title this season. And if we're content with that, so be it. But it seems that we're either at or nearing a recruiting crossroads, where we'll have to seriously evaluate what we need to do to field a competitive NCAA tourney team.

 

[Spanky]

15 full ride scholarships is a major commitment of money and the AD from this point forward should be aware of the type of student-athlete that is given the scholarship. He shouldn't permit these scholarships be given to people with little talent which seems to be the practice today.

 

[GrizLA]

I think also some of the "issue" is just how Selvig recruits. The budget (if I'm remembering right) is miniscule, and to be honest, the womens game is moving away from a chess type game, and more to an athletic type game. That alone means there is less and less women to recruit the type of O the lady griz run. Plus, Robin seems to love recruiting the 5/10 - 6/1 "versatile" player that he just coaches up. For the last however many years, it's good enough to win the Big Sigh, and that has been good enough for fans. Pretty soon though (within 3/4 years) I'm guessing this strategy won't even work to win the big sigh anymore. The thing is, it's working for him, I just wonder how long it will continue to work, and just how long lady griz fans will be content with winning the big sigh, and then getting beat like a drum in the NCAA tourney.

Yeah, that's a great post.

Robin is a great coach, a legendary coach. There's no argument there. But watching the MSU game, you have to wonder, ever-so-slightly, if the game might be passing us by.

I agree that we may even eke out a conference title this season. And if we're content with that, so be it. But it seems that we're either at or nearing a recruiting crossroads, where we'll have to seriously evaluate what we need to do to field a competitive NCAA tourney team.

A few years back when the Lady Griz were scheduled to play Pitt, the media asked one of the Pitt players if she knew anything at all about UM...Her reply sums up the situation as it was then and now and has been for decades....'Montana? Don't know anything....aren't they one of those PLODDING type teams?" The game has passed UM..they can win the Big Sky and settle for that...could be worse, I guess.

 

[citygriz]

i'm frustrated, not only that we're slow, white and plodding, but that we can't shoot! if we had even two or three deadeyes a year, i could live with the rest. but who was our last great shooter? maybe once a year this team lights up a scorebooard. more likely, they shoot 20%.

you know the customer that always bitches and complains? i'm not that customer. i'm just the customer than never comes back.

 

[WyomingGrizFan]

A few years back when the Lady Griz were scheduled to play Pitt, the media asked one of the Pitt players if she knew anything at all about UM...Her reply sums up the situation as it was then and now and has been for decades....'Montana? Don't know anything....aren't they one of those PLODDING type teams?" The game has passed UM..they can win the Big Sky and settle for that...could be worse, I guess.

Game was played 21 March 2009.

Actually, the quote would be:.."They're big, stocky women. They don't press, they don't have a good transition game, they play a zone. They're a very methodical team, they also lumber." This < http://triblive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/college/pitt/s_616400.html#axzz2IrqOvy4YThis" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; was a quote of the Head coach of the University of Pittsburgh women's basketball team Agnus Berenato, whose main source of information about the Montana Lady Griz came primarily, seemingly as I heard later, from an assistant coach by the name of Yolett McPhee-McCuin, who was an assiastant coach at the University of Portland the preceeding year when the LG played @ Portland 05 December 2007 < http://www.pittsburghpanthers.com/sports/w-baskbl/mtt/mcpheemccuin_yolett00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Now you tell me of all the players on the roster at the time that the Lady Griz had that could be classified as..."big, stocky women"...that..."also lumber?" Was it Britany Loman? Was it Sarah Ena? Or maybe it was Jessa Linford? Or maybe even Stephenie Stender, or Lauren Beck, or Sonya Rogers or maybe even Mandy Morales? Oh yes, by the way, there was a Tamara Guardipee on the roster at the time as well.

The Univ. of Pittsburgh players were more mature and reserved in their outlook than seemingly a misrepresentation offers in:.."No. I don't know anything about (Montana). When we were watching we were like Yay! no. 4! Montana. O.K.!" and "If they're in the (NCAA) Tournament they have to be good. We're not taking them lightly."

 

[DoubleNicks]

Did everyone forget about this game?
http://scores.espn.go.com/ncw/recap?gameId=310780026

It was a 4 point game with less than 90 seconds to play against the #3 seed UCLA Bruins in the tourney two years ago. LG had to resort to fouling, so they ended up losing by 8, but still not a blowout that some are saying is guaranteed every year.

And granted, UCLA was a little overrated and a good matchup for the LG but it also was one of Selvig's few sub-20 win teams at (18-15, 10-6 Big Sky).

This year's team is frustrating, in that, they have the talent and have shown ability to move and score instead of just relying on defense, yet are inconsistent. They have beaten Idaho, Tennessee State, Sac State, Portland State, North Dakota, Northern Colorado, Southern Utah by an average of almost 20 points a game. In fact, in all 7 BSC games (excluding the 9 point loss to MSU) the LG have outscored opponents 498-389 for an average of a 71-56 victory. And before someone points out that it's just the BSC, the BSC women are actually very respectable this year.

There are 6 out of the 11 teams with winning records and PSU could be a 7th soon with a 9-9 record currently. There are five Top 150 RPI teams and two Top 100 RPI teams (MSU=71 and UM=98). The BSC women, as a whole, are 16th of 32. In comparison, the BSC men are 29th of 32 and only WSU (118) and UM (140) are Top 200 RPI teams. They are also the only two teams in the whole conference with winning records currently.
http://www.realtimerpi.com/rpi_bsky_Women.html
http://www.realtimerpi.com/rpi_bsky_Men.html

However, along with the games where the LG looked like the Morales-Rogers teams of the past, there are games just as terrible when they struggle to score (ala MSU, EWU, Denver, and Villanova). And it's not as easy as just saying the LG don't have shooters.

In multiple games, I have seen Baker almost be perfect with her turnarounds and jump shots around the key. I have seen De Boer, Hill, Sullivan, Gilham and Smith be pure from three. This years team has utilized the pick-and-roll and backdoor cuts more frequently and more effectively. They have an aggressive, slasher-type in Kenzie that helps get them free throws or layups (when under-control). They have good enough ball handlers like Hill, Smith, and De Boer that can handle pressure and have good assist-to-turnover ratios. They have good contributions from the bench players.

Yet, they still have games (or at least short periods) where they can't score for multiple minutes. Does Robin's defense drain the players so much that they aren't as aggressive on the offensive end? The cold periods alway seem to include a lot of passing around the top without much penetrating-and-kicking play. Players seem hesitant which leads to sloppy passes or seem to settle for or force up more jump shots instead of moving the ball quicker or stepping into their shots confidently.

If it really is just a matter of fatigue, why not go back to the full rotations like in the Sac State game where Robin was subbing 5 at a time. This team is probably as deep as it ever has been in the past.

 

[moose/squirrel]

i'm frustrated, not only that we're slow, white and plodding, but that we can't shoot! if we had even two or three deadeyes a year, i could live with the rest. but who was our last great shooter? maybe once a year this team lights up a scorebooard. more likely, they shoot 20%.

you know the customer that always bitches and complains? i'm not that customer. i'm just the customer than never comes back.

True story, I was at all the games when Marty, Jean, Lisa and Shannon played. The zenith of lady griz bball.

It has changed, seems to me those ladies from the 80's are more talented than the ladies on our roster now... scratching my head. Selvig is a great coach, will probably reach womens BB hall of of fame status rightly so given his track record.

It was pretty fun when Lady Griz mattered.

 

[MissoulaMarinerFan]

Did everyone forget about this game?
http://scores.espn.go.com/ncw/recap?gameId=310780026

It was a 4 point game with less than 90 seconds to play against the #3 seed UCLA Bruins in the tourney two years ago. LG had to resort to fouling, so they ended up losing by 8, but still not a blowout that some are saying is guaranteed every year.

And granted, UCLA was a little overrated and a good matchup for the LG but it also was one of Selvig's few sub-20 win teams at (18-15, 10-6 Big Sky).

This year's team is frustrating, in that, they have the talent and have shown ability to move and score instead of just relying on defense, yet are inconsistent. They have beaten Idaho, Tennessee State, Sac State, Portland State, North Dakota, Northern Colorado, Southern Utah by an average of almost 20 points a game. In fact, in all 7 BSC games (excluding the 9 point loss to MSU) the LG have outscored opponents 498-389 for an average of a 71-56 victory. And before someone points out that it's just the BSC, the BSC women are actually very respectable this year.

There are 6 out of the 11 teams with winning records and PSU could be a 7th soon with a 9-9 record currently. There are five Top 150 RPI teams and two Top 100 RPI teams (MSU=71 and UM=98). The BSC women, as a whole, are 16th of 32. In comparison, the BSC men are 29th of 32 and only WSU (118) and UM (140) are Top 200 RPI teams. They are also the only two teams in the whole conference with winning records currently.
http://www.realtimerpi.com/rpi_bsky_Women.html
http://www.realtimerpi.com/rpi_bsky_Men.html

However, along with the games where the LG looked like the Morales-Rogers teams of the past, there are games just as terrible when they struggle to score (ala MSU, EWU, Denver, and Villanova). And it's not as easy as just saying the LG don't have shooters.

In multiple games, I have seen Baker almost be perfect with her turnarounds and jump shots around the key. I have seen De Boer, Hill, Sullivan, Gilham and Smith be pure from three. This years team has utilized the pick-and-roll and backdoor cuts more frequently and more effectively. They have an aggressive, slasher-type in Kenzie that helps get them free throws or layups (when under-control). They have good enough ball handlers like Hill, Smith, and De Boer that can handle pressure and have good assist-to-turnover ratios. They have good contributions from the bench players.

Yet, they still have games (or at least short periods) where they can't score for multiple minutes. Does Robin's defense drain the players so much that they aren't as aggressive on the offensive end? The cold periods alway seem to include a lot of passing around the top without much penetrating-and-kicking play. Players seem hesitant which leads to sloppy passes or seem to settle for or force up more jump shots instead of moving the ball quicker or stepping into their shots confidently.

If it really is just a matter of fatigue, why not go back to the full rotations like in the Sac State game where Robin was subbing 5 at a time. This team is probably as deep as it ever has been in the past.

Great Post doublenicks. I had forgotten about the UCLA game. I was never saying they couldn't be competitive, or that they can play teams tight in the tourney. However, the last time the Ladies won a tourney game was in 1995. 1995. 18 years ago. Most of the time, the scores aren't even close. It's not that I don't hope the Ladies will win. But, it is frustrating to see other women's teams just flat out being more athletic than the ladies. If they go up against an athletic team that is smart and coached well, I expect them to get beat 9/10 times.

 

[PlayerRep]

Gilham is a liability on the floor

From an article entitled "Gilham sparks Montana to road win at Idaho State":

"With Montana struggling to find some second-half offense and locked in a tight back-and-forth battle with Idaho State Thursday night, it was a freshman who came to the rescue.

She played just eight minutes in the second half, but Shanae Gilham scored all 10 of her points in that key stretch, and she helped the Lady Griz rally for a 57-52 victory over the Bengals at Pocatello, Idaho.

"Shanae gave us a huge lift," Montana coach Robin Selvig said. "We were having a hard time scoring, and you know you're going to have those stretches against these guys, and Shanae came in and really scored it when we needed it. She was the difference."

With Idaho State leading 38-36, Gilham struck with a 3-pointer from the top of the key for her first points of the game. Her two free throws a minute later made it 41-38.

The Bengals came back to take a 43-42 lead, but Gilham found just the sliver of space she needed behind a screen at the top of the key, and her second 3-pointer put Montana up for good, 45-43.

Following an Idaho State miss, Gilham got the ball on the left wing, faked her defender into closing out too hard, and nonchalantly went to the rim for an uncontested layup that made it 50-43 with 6:03 to play."

http://www.gogriz.com/sports/w-baskbl/recaps/012513aaa.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Spanky]

What is the value of a full ride at UM these days? $100,000? If that is the case, UM has $1.5Million in place for ladies basketball scholarships. Wouldn't you think our AD would be closely watching the program to make sure scholarships aren't being given to less than talented athletes. Worse yet, relatives and family friends?

 

[cclarkblues]

What is the value of a full ride at UM these days? $100,000? If that is the case, UM has $1.5Million in place for ladies basketball scholarships. Wouldn't you think our AD would be closely watching the program to make sure scholarships aren't being given to less than talented athletes. Worse yet, relatives and family friends?

Help me out Spanky. Are you saying there are scholarship players that shouldn't be there due to being a relative? I thought she was a Gatorade POY, but I could be wrong.