UND in the Big Sky? In or Out?

[bGrizzled]

some puny tribal entities are the driving economic force in their regions...how un american is that? face it we are one of the unique features (problems?) on the american landscape that few other countries possess. montana has alteast 7 different tribes with their own languages and self governing bodies...would i agree to a team name the 'fighting salish'? likely if all the team were comprised of salish people .. the tribal high school here is the two eagle 'eagles' and the tribal college is the 'bison' .. two sacred and dear symbols of our tribe and many others...i personally have no issue with 'fighting sioux' but if the sioux people do then its their issue to resolve..the larger issue at hand for me and my family is getting more butts in seats to support the team we all love...The Montana Grizzlies...we hold season football tickets and make it to 60% of home basketball games on both sides..how many 'fans' on egriz can claim the same? We have four kids...all of which we hope will attend the 'U' when they graduate highschool...lem lemch.

 

[EWURanger29]

EWU fan here that has no problem with North Dakota in the Big Sky but the logo/mascot thing is getting old. Either change or suffer the consequences of being indepedent! :thumb:

Eagle feathers are sacred to many native tribes. Out of respect, Eastern Washington should be forced to change its mascot to the prairie chicken.

Ironically, EWU did change its mascot from the "Savages" to the "Eagles" back in the 60's or 70's.....although "Savages" is certainly more offensive than the actual name of a tribe like Sioux. I think it's BS that the NCAA has this rule - my guess is the main reason schools like FSU, etc. got to keep their names boils down to money. That said, it might just be better for all parties involved for UND to just change the name and move on. No point in letting this destroy athletics there.


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[MrTitleist]

EWU fan here that has no problem with North Dakota in the Big Sky but the logo/mascot thing is getting old. Either change or suffer the consequences of being indepedent! :thumb:

Eagle feathers are sacred to many native tribes. Out of respect, Eastern Washington should be forced to change its mascot to the prairie chicken.

Ironically, EWU did change its mascot from the "Savages" to the "Eagles" back in the 60's or 70's.....although "Savages" is certainly more offensive than the actual name of a tribe like Sioux. I think it's BS that the NCAA has this rule - my guess is the main reason schools like FSU, etc. got to keep their names boils down to money. That said, it might just be better for all parties involved for UND to just change the name and move on. No point in letting this destroy athletics there.


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Florida State and Utah were allowed to keep their nicknames because the Seminole and Ute tribes gave their blessing to continue on using them. Not because of money. :twocents:

Louisiana-Monroe, on the other hand, had to change their nickname from the Indians to the Warhawks.. and they did it with a lot less bitching than UND has.

 

[Silvertip]

Please, we welcome a team named Sioux, because if you don't come on board Doug Fullerton will no doubt try to recruit The University of Phoenix as the Big Sky's 53rd member (after Marlene's Cut N' Curl Salon.) He may not know they don't have a team, but he covets that big stadium of theirs.

 

[WyomingGrizFan]

Wht not a compromise? Call them the North Dakota Fightin' Sue, in honour of Johnny Cash that hailed from Arkansas; or maybe, even better, the "Soo Wee," or is it "Sooey?" That since Arkansas like them thar hogs and the "Sooey" imitates the mating call of the wild boar; how much more reasonable can ya git?

 

[kemajic]

Florida State and Utah were allowed to keep their nicknames because the Seminole and Ute tribes gave their blessing to continue on using them. Not because of money. :twocents:

It could very well have been because of money - in the form of payoffs. The NoDaks may not have thought of that.

 

[EWURanger29]

Florida State and Utah were allowed to keep their nicknames because the Seminole and Ute tribes gave their blessing to continue on using them. Not because of money. :twocents:

It could very well have been because of money - in the form of payoffs. The NoDaks may not have thought of that.

This is what I was trying to imply.

 

[HookedonGriz]

Unfortunately this is a real issue with real consequences for UND. I lived in Grand Forks and love Sioux sports and all they stand for. People are correct in saying they have an avid fan base and put up good competition. However, unless they figure out this nickname there are some major issues.

The former UND football coach, Dale Lennon, who revived that program just joined the side that is all for retiring the Sioux nickname. He stated in a recent article that many recruits he is after in Illinois and others he has talked to have by-passed and not considered UND based solely on the nickname issue. The recruits are concerned they won't have a conference home or post-season tournaments to play in. This is very real. To make matters worse, college recruiters are using this issue in their favor....telling potential UND recruits "oh you don't wanna go there...they won't have a conference." There are a number of former Sioux athletes and coaches that are stating the best thing for UND to do is retire the nickname.

When this whole thing started, I was the last person to want to see such a proud tradition, logo, and nickname be retired. But after seeing some of these eye-opening statements from UND legends, it has me thinking a lot. I feel like what is best for the school and its athletic program is to really consider retiring this thing.

For those posts earlier about why this is an issue and that you don't understand.....long story short....the Sioux tribe members actually call themselves "Dakotas" which means "friendly people". Their enemy tribes are actually the ones who called them "Sioux" back in the day which in their native tongue means "snake". So they are not big fans of the Sioux nickname as everyone would think. There are two Sioux tribes in North Dakota. The NCAA said if UND could get the support of both tribes, they would be fine with the Sioux nickname and logo (similar to the Florida Seminole ruling). Initially, the tribal council (5 leaders on each tribe generally....a small minority) said they would not support the nickname so the NCAA said start retiring it. When the rest of the tribe members learned of this, there was a bit of an uproar. One of the tribes finally had a reservation wide vote and they voted to keep the Sioux nickname (it was like a 70-30 ratio in favor of keeping it) but the other tribal council refused to have a reservation wide vote, as they know a very similar outcome would be the case. So without the support of the other tribe, UND is somewhat screwed. It's another classic example of "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" which makes me sick to my stomach, but it is reality.

When the Big Sky accepted UND, it was on the premise that the nickname was being retired. Well then the legislature of ND did all it could to start a new bill to keep it around. That's where we are now...and now the Big Sky has to consider this being a real issue. Not sure what the answer is or what the future holds for UND....but I wish them the best in all of it!

 

[billings_poke]

For those posts earlier about why this is an issue and that you don't understand.....long story short....the Sioux tribe members actually call themselves "Dakotas" which means "friendly people". Their enemy tribes are actually the ones who called them "Sioux" back in the day which in their native tongue means "snake". So they are not big fans of the Sioux nickname as everyone would think. There are two Sioux tribes in North Dakota. The NCAA said if UND could get the support of both tribes, they would be fine with the Sioux nickname and logo (similar to the Florida Seminole ruling). Initially, the tribal council (5 leaders on each tribe generally....a small minority) said they would not support the nickname so the NCAA said start retiring it. When the rest of the tribe members learned of this, there was a bit of an uproar. One of the tribes finally had a reservation wide vote and they voted to keep the Sioux nickname (it was like a 70-30 ratio in favor of keeping it) but the other tribal council refused to have a reservation wide vote, as they know a very similar outcome would be the case. So without the support of the other tribe, UND is somewhat screwed. It's another classic example of "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" which makes me sick to my stomach, but it is reality.

Nothing like being insulted by a college nickname used by the people who took all your land and shoved you on a reservation. change it

 

[bincitysioux]

Nothing like being insulted by a college nickname used by the people who took all your land and shoved you on a reservation. change it

You must have missed the part about how the tribes actually support the name. They voted 2-1 in favor of it. The tribe is the one gathering the petitions and got the name re-instated two weeks ago. The tribe is currently suing the NCAA to get them to back off.

Personally, though, as a life-long ND resident, a UND alum, and a season-ticket holder for many UND sports, I'm in the camp that the name needs to be dropped. It could jeopardize our standing with the Big Sky, won't allow the football team to host playoff games, it is going to limit our scheduling options in all sports, and will put the kabosh on the biggest annual sporting event in the state, the Sioux-Gopher hockey series (Minnesota & Wisconsin said they won't schedule us after next season in anything including hockey.)

 

[GRZFTBL]

I just read, the other day, UND was to travel to Iowa for Track and Field (March, I believe). Iowa just let UND know they are now NOT invited. Iowa is standing by the NCAA's "wish" that UND drops the name.

I was talking to a buddy of mine who is a UND alum. He say's the name will be changed soon--or at least "Sioux" will be dropped.

It sucks and I'm 100% against it but it's run it's course and it's time for a change. :roll: