Grizfan-24 said:
I do believe some of the complaints are legitimate about the last two or three years. The offensive criticisms are legitimate, I don't share the same view as others on some of them, but for me TDC is clearly the best guy to run the program.
A couple of things to consider: For all those guys who transferred out, few of them are really achieving above what they were able to accomplish here minus Kyle Owens. Not sure that Beasley or Parker are that much more effective or even productive in their new environments than they were here. So if we returned last years core group, is it likely that it is much better than this current group? I'm not sure it is.
The other thing that I think is important to remember is that I do think TDC recognized the limitations of this team and answered them. We exited half the roster, and in some ways you could make an argument maybe besides Beasley, this group is more talented team group than last years top 7. That doesn't mean the team doesn't have warts, because it does but I see different problems this year than we've had in the past.
Positives:
I do think that TDC chose right when it came to who he thought was most capable of running the game on the floor. I do think there was some question at to whether Whitney was that type of player especially with Beasley on the floor, but Whitney has shown (when healthy) that he's a top PG in the conference. Not only is he choosing his spots to score better last year, he is a great on ball defender (something that we missed terribly this weekend), but his decision making and facilitating has gotten so much better.
The starting five at least offensively with Whitney on the floor is vastly better than any group of 5 we've had since the Rorie/Oguine years. That is helped by the presence of Thomas at the 4, and Moody is an excellent off ball player that doesn't require tons of touches to be effective. Bannan has become an excellent facilitator out of the low post and I think this group is on pace to shoot and make more threes than any UM team in the last few years because not only is the spacing better, but it is largely to do with how good Bannan has become at feeling what teams are trying to do to him defensively.
I do see offensively stylistic changes from last year and the shot selection is vastly better. Again I think it is much better when Whitney and Bannan share the floor, but the emphasis on changing how Bannan is given the basketball has made it a lot more difficult for teams to set their defenses. There were times last year that Bannan would disappear from games, but he has gone from everywhere from a Point Forward to a classic block to block post player and they aren't trying to wedge that 4 ft hook bounce pass into him surrounded by a collapsing D as much. Again this group of players 1-5 is deeper offensively this year, with all 5 capable of scoring and doing so efficiently. We had two players on the floor for much of the season last year that were blackholes offensively (Anderson, DCH), and it is hard to argue that you are going to find a guy you can slack off of who isn't capable of beating you. Martin is the weakest offensive player and he hasn't been bad.
Negatives:
I never thought I'd say this, with a TDC coached team, but we are so very lacking in ballhanding/PG play when Whitney isn't on the floor. Right now it appears that it is going to be this teams Achilles heal this year. Whitney has missed a large chunk of four games due to illness or injury and this team both defensively and offensively struggles. The ends of the NAU and UNC game sort of played out the way they did because Whitney was clearly not capable of giving TDC a lot of minutes. He lacked the explosiveness in the UNC game, couldn't separate and they were trying to save him defensively and UNC kept finding him on low post mismatches.
I love what Vasquez has done this year, but his guard play isn't as well suited both offensively to break down defenses and is vastly better as a secondary off ball player than as a facilitator. That is true with Moody as well and when they run some of the similar Whitney schemes, neither is vertically as quick nor are they as secure with the ball, and the offense bogs down a ton. I do think that is why when Whitney was out, you saw Bannan as the point forward, because he with his ball handling skills is generally vastly superior to any big or wing who is going to try to defend them. So he can get into the offense, generally makes good decisions, and while the offense becomes a classic back down concept, we've been getting good shots on most possessions when it happens. Doesn't mean we make them, but the shots seem to be a bit more organic with this group this year.
Our depth in general is limited, and I honestly thought we'd get more for Oke (he's starting to play better) and Brown. I with Oke I do think the issue in some ways is a bit of a reverse issue than what we've seen as to why players don't get a ton of playing time for Travis. Oke appears to be a bit more of a D only guy and seems struggle with spacing on the floor offensively, because you can see TDC get a bit frustrated when he's clogged the lane a few times when Whitney has had clear lines to the hoop and he's made it easier for teams to double off of when he's on the floor at the same time with Bannan.
Brown is a bit more of a mystery, but when he's on the floor he seems a bit lost offensively/defensively and I wonder if this more that classic transfer issue and an adjustment as to how TDC sees his fit. He clearly has athleticism, but TDC has been pretty resolute over the years that you have to be able to play D to find time, and I wonder if that isn't the case here.
Vasquez really is the only consistent contributor off the bench, and the only one that appears to be able to provide much needed bench points. Nap shows some clear skill, but definitely is a freshman. What sort of surprises me a bit is that Kerr, who I am to understand is a true PG, didn't at least get some consideration to play this year considering how thin we are at guard. I do seem to gather the staff was fairly comfortable with the dual nature of Moody, Vasquez, and to a lesser degree Brown, as well as Bannan that they were going to give Kerr the ability to redshirt. In any case this team struggles in the ball handling department. That showed up in spades at the end of the game against UNC, because it was clear Travis didn't want to put Whitney back on the floor or at least preferred not to, but their ability to get open and not get sped up was really limited in that past 5 minutes when he wasn't on the floor.
Stylistically, I don't like the random movement press break/in bound especially when you can't get that first cutter open. Too often we get buried in the corner on the second or third option. Teams seem to be able to over-deny the cut, and at times too many players are in the same place begging for the ball. Just not one of my favorite things. Prefer running guys through others and it doesn't necessarily have to be scripted, but the spacing is terrible and the inbounder seems generally at a loss where he should be looking on in bound.
Anyway, those are my 85 cents. Enjoy your morning coffee.
GF24.
Where have you been? You are one of my favorite commenters. However, I do have to disagree with some of your statements:
“Not sure that Parker is that much more effective or even productive in his new environment than he was here.”
I am kind of surprised at this take. I researched all the former Griz still playing a couple of weeks ago and posted it (See: “Checking-in on Old Friends”) Parker seemed much more productive to me.
I could write out all the numbers and do a comparison, but I don’t want to bore everyone.
However, I will say this, here is my list of the top players in the Big Sky as of today (in no particular order): Bannan, Parker, Jones (UI), Jones (WSU), Cone (NAU), Knecht (UNC), Venters (EWU), Allegri (EWU), Battle (MSU), Belo (MSU) and McRae (SAC). I would entertain arguments for Brown (MSU), Chappell (SAC), Moffitt (UI) and Kountz (UNC – thus far having a below average year based on expectations). There is a long way to go, but as of today, isn’t that essentially the list of the best players in the conference (15 in total)? Who is missing and what person on the above list does that person replace?
I would consider being arguably a top 10 player in the conference greatly exceeds coming off the bench for Montana.
So if we returned last years core group, is it likely that it is much better than this current group? I'm not sure it is.
“As a consolation prize you have won the home edition of everyone’s favorite game show . . . THIS YEAR’S TEAM!!!! versus LAST YEAR’S TEAM!!!!
I feel everyone in their mind compares an intact This Year’s Team versus a hobbled Last Year’s Team and not the team that started conference play 8-2. The weakest part of Last Year’s Team was the post and it was also the hardest hit by injury. Blakney who is playing professionally in Japan, missed a lot of games and I feel was never close to 100%. Anderson’s injury has been well documented.
Basically, the argument comes down to this:
DT/Moody/Nap/Oke/Brown > DCH/Owens/Beasley/Parker/Blakney (healthy).
I don’t know how anyone would agree with that. Also, returning last year’s core, you still had the ability to pick up a post in the portal (based on Braggs’ late transfer). So even Last Year’s core with a post like DT (even without Moody) is far better than This Year’s Team. I may be missing something, but it seems kind of obvious to me. You could have gone 10 deep with Last Year’s Team and not missed a beat. Even just going 7-deep this year has been an adventure (although several have had their moments.)
I am not seeing the improvement you are ascribing to Whitney as a point guard
Whitney is a very good basketball player. Whitney is a very good basketball player. Whitney is a very good basketball player. Please don’t misconstrue anything I am saying into thinking I think he is not a very good basketball player. I just don’t think point guard is his position of strength (It’s not Moody’s or Vazquez’s either, but it doesn’t detract from what either do very well).
It may be a personal preference, but I think I would be hard-pressed to find a PG I like that averages 2.5 assists a game (3.3 per 40 mins), a 1.45 A/TO ratio and shoots 26% from 3. His lack of outside shooting often clogs up the paint because people don’t play him honestly. It is a little baffling that playing point guard full-time with Bannan, DT, and Moody only results in 2.5 apg. A swing pass to Moody, DT and 2 post entries to Bannan gets you 4. His assists generally come on passes anyone can make. I also feel like he misses reads a 3rd year starting guard should be making.
Again, Whitney is a very good player and can get to the basket as well as anyone, but I just feel he has been forced to play out of position.
