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UNC game thread

bigsky33 said:
Griz2k said:
Wow, 18 point lead at one point. I just don't get It.

Used to think Travis was a great coach. What has happened? They barely squeaked this out after having big leads. Glad the Cats have Sprinkle.

Travis was never a great coach. Just pretty hard not to win when you have 3 of the 4 or 5 best players in the conference for back to back years. When he doesn’t have massive talent advantages over everybody else, this is the result. Terrible game management.
 
So frustrating to watch. Up 18 with 8:00 minutes to go and Griz nation is still nervous because we have seen this movie before.
Glad we won!
 
Just a few years ago, Kendal Manuel was coming off our bench. On this team, he’d be putting up 15 a night. Such a drastic falloff in talent like this in just a few years should raise some questions. Rebuilding is understandable. This is far past rebuild territory. No players on the roster with Rorie/Oguine/Pridgett upside and an already pretty experienced roster. Time to start thinking of change.
 
kurtismichael said:
AZGrizFan said:
The complete inability to put a team away.

Playing not to lose.

Playing pensive in the last 5-7 minutes of a game.

Playing sloppy.

Inability to handle full court pressure.

Missing critical free throws.

Giving up large leads.

These are not the hallmarks of a great team.

I realize road games/wins are tough to come by, but how is it that this formula happens EVERY. SINGLE.TIME?

Trouble inbounding the ball against pressure.

I’m out. I’ve had it with this team. The scoring droughts are inevitable—tonight, no field goals the final 4:38. This offense cannot be diagrammed, as Monty said last year. My suggestion of an offensive coordinator, not heeded—a fundamental managerial flaw of DeCuire’s. Mix in all the points that Az makes above and rooting for this team is
Inevitable futility. Sure, I’ll be back. Next year. For Money Ball. Wait for it!
 
citay said:
kurtismichael said:
Trouble inbounding the ball against pressure.

I’m out. I’ve had it with this team. The scoring droughts are inevitable—tonight, no field goals the final 4:38. This offense cannot be diagrammed, as Monty said last year. My suggestion of an offensive coordinator, not heeded—a fundamental managerial flaw of DeCuire’s. Mix in all the points that Az makes above and rooting for this team is
Inevitable futility. Sure, I’ll be back. Next year. For Money Ball. Wait for it!

You guys are idiots. Decuire's the furthest thing in the world from being on the hot seat. Get a freaking grip. We would actually be a powerful mid major program this season if Parker, Beasley and Owens would've stayed and not fled to greener pastures.
 
CopperGold14 said:
citay said:
I’m out. I’ve had it with this team. The scoring droughts are inevitable—tonight, no field goals the final 4:38. This offense cannot be diagrammed, as Monty said last year. My suggestion of an offensive coordinator, not heeded—a fundamental managerial flaw of DeCuire’s. Mix in all the points that Az makes above and rooting for this team is
Inevitable futility. Sure, I’ll be back. Next year. For Money Ball. Wait for it!

You guys are idiots. Decuire's the furthest thing in the world from being on the hot seat. Get a freaking grip. We would actually be a powerful mid major program this season if Parker, Beasley and Owens would've stayed and not fled to greener pastures.
Actually I think we’d be worse off if we still had those guys.
 
Griz2k said:
bigsky33 said:
Used to think Travis was a great coach. What has happened? They barely squeaked this out after having big leads. Glad the Cats have Sprinkle.

I used to think so as well. Now, not so much. No Griz lead, no matter how big, is safe. It's absolutely ridiculous.
[/quote

Me too. We are missing Ken Bone on bench? Where is he now?
 
AZGrizFan said:
The complete inability to put a team away.

Playing not to lose.

Playing pensive in the last 5-7 minutes of a game.

Playing sloppy.

Inability to handle full court pressure.

Missing critical free throws.

Giving up large leads.

These are not the hallmarks of a great team.

I realize road games/wins are tough to come by, but how is it that this formula happens EVERY. SINGLE.TIME?

Hmmm, watched Baylor cough up a double digit lead a few days ago to TCU. At home. This happens every night college basketball is played, to good and bad teams. This Gr,iz team has a lot of flaws but imagining they are the only team to have difficulty closing out games is hilarious. The hysteria on the football side is now the dominant meme over here. :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Hoops watcher said:
AZGrizFan said:
The complete inability to put a team away.

Playing not to lose.

Playing pensive in the last 5-7 minutes of a game.

Playing sloppy.

Inability to handle full court pressure.

Missing critical free throws.

Giving up large leads.

These are not the hallmarks of a great team.

I realize road games/wins are tough to come by, but how is it that this formula happens EVERY. SINGLE.TIME?

Hmmm, watched Baylor cough up a double digit lead a few days ago to TCU. At home. This happens every night college basketball is played, to good and bad teams. This Gr,iz team has a lot of flaws but imagining they are the only team to have difficulty closing out games is hilarious. The hysteria on the football side is now the dominant meme over here. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Does Baylor do it every game? Because the Griz sure as hell seem to.
 
Damn, didn't the GRIZ get a W on the road?
Didn't it take great play to build a large lead? How about giving them credit for that?

Too many expect perfection.
 
mtgrizrule said:
Damn, didn't the GRIZ get a W on the road?
Didn't it take great play to build a large lead? How about giving them credit for that?

Too many expect perfection.

:thumb: I agree 100% with mtgrizrule. The Big Sky Conf. will be tough this season. One look at a still-sick (the team's been battling illness) Brandon Whitney in the game's final seconds, bent over with hands on knees gasping for breath (he probably shouldn't have been playing) was proof enough to me this team left it all on the floor. Go Griz.
 
Here we go again. Just like in football, we have the "love DeCuire" fans, and the "we need a change" fans. I'm in the "need a change" group.

I love you DeCuire lovers who jump on here to support him after he ekes out a victory over a pathetic NCU team with a 5-11 (0-4 Big Sky) record. Is that all it takes for your support? ROFL

RE-SET both the BB and FB coaching staffs!
 
Post-Game thoughts:

1. A win is a win and that needs to be the attitude from here-on-out. This program is not in the position for fans to be complaining about the quality of wins. But also a loss needs to be a loss. I don’t want to hear about Whitney being sick (although sorry to hear that). I don’t want to hear about what would have happened if Mack played the whole season. I didn’t want to hear about how young we were for two straight seasons. That’s for fans to debate - not players and coaches. Those excuses seep into the mentality of the program. Every little thing around here gets treated like QB1 going down. There is one QB1 and its Bannan. Everything else should be “Next F’ing Man Up!” If you don’t have the next man up, do a better job recruiting.

2. Impressed with Martin’s overall floor game. He made some very nice reads to Mack out of the pick and roll. Never really seen that part of his game.


3. On losing big leads - every lost big lead is not equal. Although the result is ultimately the same, there is a difference in losing a big lead and coughing up a big lead. Sometimes the answer is painfully obvious.


4. Idaho, NAU, and UNC are the worst 3 defensive teams in the conference and amongst the 35 worst defensive teams in the entire country.


5. Montana is lucky there are only two teams in the conference that have the ability to put pressure on the ball for 40 minutes. Having to resort to a football type 4 wide formation to inbound the ball is not a good sign.


6. I thought they did a better job buying Bannan some early rest minutes.


7. Really weird that UNC didn’t start Johnson and Kountz. It’s not often you see a team not start two all-conference guys for non-injury reasons.


8. Love the confidence Vazquez is now playing with. Seemed like that has been missing for awhile and difference is obvious and a huge asset to this team.
 
RoseyMustGo said:
Here we go again. Just like in football, we have the "love DeCuire" fans, and the "we need a change" fans. I'm in the "need a change" group.

I love you DeCuire lovers who jump on here to support him after he ekes out a victory over a pathetic NCU team with a 5-11 (0-4 Big Sky) record. Is that all it takes for your support? ROFL

RE-SET both the BB and FB coaching staffs!

Hey RoseyMustGo: I assume you're referring to me... which is OK by me. The difference? I DO respect YOUR perspectives and opinions regarding both programs (fb & mbb) and can see very clearly where you're coming from, especially regarding the fb team. Conversely, my support for Montana's athletic and academic programs is based upon more than just this one game. And I'm not taking a pollyanna-ish view of things with my support, since I've had some pretty decent & opportune perspectives of Montana sports (and coaches) over the decades. I just know (because I've seen first-hand) how hard these kids work every day to balance their studies, their families, & their personal lives with the full-time job of college hoops (which they all love & wouldn't give up). I respect that from them and their coaches. I will continue to support this team through this season.

BTW: I'm not in this for just one game. I don't "love" coach DeCuire, but I do respect how hard he and his assistants have worked to make this program competitive. You and others have the full right to your opinions. I for one believe in this team and predict they'll be in the fray come March 1st. Go Griz
 
grizzlyjournal said:
RoseyMustGo said:
Here we go again. Just like in football, we have the "love DeCuire" fans, and the "we need a change" fans. I'm in the "need a change" group.

I love you DeCuire lovers who jump on here to support him after he ekes out a victory over a pathetic NCU team with a 5-11 (0-4 Big Sky) record. Is that all it takes for your support? ROFL

RE-SET both the BB and FB coaching staffs!

Hey RoseyMustGo: I assume you're referring to me... which is OK by me. The difference? I DO respect YOUR perspectives and opinions regarding both programs (fb & mbb) and can see very clearly where you're coming from, especially regarding the fb team. Conversely, my support for Montana's athletic and academic programs is based upon more than just this one game. And I'm not taking a pollyanna-ish view of things with my support, since I've had some pretty decent & opportune perspectives of Montana sports (and coaches) over the decades. I just know (because I've seen first-hand) how hard these kids work every day to balance their studies, their families, & their personal lives with the full-time job of college hoops (which they all love & wouldn't give up). I respect that from them and their coaches. I will continue to support this team through this season.

BTW: I'm not in this for just one game. I don't "love" coach DeCuire, but I do respect how hard he and his assistants have worked to make this program competitive. You and others have the full right to your opinions. I for one believe in this team and predict they'll be in the fray come March 1st. Go Griz

I 100% respect your opinion, and your support of the coach and the program. I too support the program and the kids. But I desire a change in leadership, and I don't understand how you can suggest that by wanting a change in head coaches means that one does not support the team. I drove to Flagstaff from Phoenix to watch the men play NAU. Would I have driven 240 miles round-trip, and burned a tank of gas if I didn't support the team? And what observed was another poor coaching job by DeCuire at the end of the game. We have watched Travis continue to be out-coached in the final minutes of games for several years. It has been commented on by many in this forum many times. Clock management issues. Poor substitution issues. Poor defensive assignments in crunch time (like against NAU).

Look, Decuire supporters and DeCuire detractors are BOTH Griz fans. People need to understand that.
 
Late game at NAU we called our last time out right after NAU had called a time out. Why? Why waste a timeout like that?

Then in a five minute OT we score five points. I know teams suffer droughts but our offense seems always to suffer them at the worst possible times.

Not to mention the collapse at NC. Sadly, as a Griz fan, up 18, I knew it was coming. Sure enough, no field goals the last 4:35 of the game, and a team hopelessly incapable of dealing with their press.

The fabled Montana coaching tree was a Weeping Willow.
 
And one more thing.

In the the Big Sky you do not see quality bigs. Thanks to DeCuire we have two, Bannan and Thomas. Yet our offense is entirely guard oriented. Too few passes into the post. No lob dunks— a fairly routine play now in the NBA. Few close-in shots when we need a bucket, or passes out of the post. Just pass the ball around the perimeter until the shot clock runs down.

My last plea since I like DeCuire as a man immensely: An offensive coordinator. One with the authority to help us past these awful scoring lapses. Because if we were a state like California our offense would be labeled “Extreme Drought.”
 
I do believe some of the complaints are legitimate about the last two or three years. The offensive criticisms are legitimate, I don't share the same view as others on some of them, but for me TDC is clearly the best guy to run the program.

A couple of things to consider: For all those guys who transferred out, few of them are really achieving above what they were able to accomplish here minus Kyle Owens. Not sure that Beasley or Parker are that much more effective or even productive in their new environments than they were here. So if we returned last years core group, is it likely that it is much better than this current group? I'm not sure it is.

The other thing that I think is important to remember is that I do think TDC recognized the limitations of this team and answered them. We exited half the roster, and in some ways you could make an argument maybe besides Beasley, this group is more talented team group than last years top 7. That doesn't mean the team doesn't have warts, because it does but I see different problems this year than we've had in the past.

Positives:

I do think that TDC chose right when it came to who he thought was most capable of running the game on the floor. I do think there was some question at to whether Whitney was that type of player especially with Beasley on the floor, but Whitney has shown (when healthy) that he's a top PG in the conference. Not only is he choosing his spots to score better last year, he is a great on ball defender (something that we missed terribly this weekend), but his decision making and facilitating has gotten so much better.

The starting five at least offensively with Whitney on the floor is vastly better than any group of 5 we've had since the Rorie/Oguine years. That is helped by the presence of Thomas at the 4, and Moody is an excellent off ball player that doesn't require tons of touches to be effective. Bannan has become an excellent facilitator out of the low post and I think this group is on pace to shoot and make more threes than any UM team in the last few years because not only is the spacing better, but it is largely to do with how good Bannan has become at feeling what teams are trying to do to him defensively.

I do see offensively stylistic changes from last year and the shot selection is vastly better. Again I think it is much better when Whitney and Bannan share the floor, but the emphasis on changing how Bannan is given the basketball has made it a lot more difficult for teams to set their defenses. There were times last year that Bannan would disappear from games, but he has gone from everywhere from a Point Forward to a classic block to block post player and they aren't trying to wedge that 4 ft hook bounce pass into him surrounded by a collapsing D as much. Again this group of players 1-5 is deeper offensively this year, with all 5 capable of scoring and doing so efficiently. We had two players on the floor for much of the season last year that were blackholes offensively (Anderson, DCH), and it is hard to argue that you are going to find a guy you can slack off of who isn't capable of beating you. Martin is the weakest offensive player and he hasn't been bad.

Negatives:
I never thought I'd say this, with a TDC coached team, but we are so very lacking in ballhanding/PG play when Whitney isn't on the floor. Right now it appears that it is going to be this teams Achilles heal this year. Whitney has missed a large chunk of four games due to illness or injury and this team both defensively and offensively struggles. The ends of the NAU and UNC game sort of played out the way they did because Whitney was clearly not capable of giving TDC a lot of minutes. He lacked the explosiveness in the UNC game, couldn't separate and they were trying to save him defensively and UNC kept finding him on low post mismatches.

I love what Vasquez has done this year, but his guard play isn't as well suited both offensively to break down defenses and is vastly better as a secondary off ball player than as a facilitator. That is true with Moody as well and when they run some of the similar Whitney schemes, neither is vertically as quick nor are they as secure with the ball, and the offense bogs down a ton. I do think that is why when Whitney was out, you saw Bannan as the point forward, because he with his ball handling skills is generally vastly superior to any big or wing who is going to try to defend them. So he can get into the offense, generally makes good decisions, and while the offense becomes a classic back down concept, we've been getting good shots on most possessions when it happens. Doesn't mean we make them, but the shots seem to be a bit more organic with this group this year.

Our depth in general is limited, and I honestly thought we'd get more for Oke (he's starting to play better) and Brown. I with Oke I do think the issue in some ways is a bit of a reverse issue than what we've seen as to why players don't get a ton of playing time for Travis. Oke appears to be a bit more of a D only guy and seems struggle with spacing on the floor offensively, because you can see TDC get a bit frustrated when he's clogged the lane a few times when Whitney has had clear lines to the hoop and he's made it easier for teams to double off of when he's on the floor at the same time with Bannan.

Brown is a bit more of a mystery, but when he's on the floor he seems a bit lost offensively/defensively and I wonder if this more that classic transfer issue and an adjustment as to how TDC sees his fit. He clearly has athleticism, but TDC has been pretty resolute over the years that you have to be able to play D to find time, and I wonder if that isn't the case here.

Vasquez really is the only consistent contributor off the bench, and the only one that appears to be able to provide much needed bench points. Nap shows some clear skill, but definitely is a freshman. What sort of surprises me a bit is that Kerr, who I am to understand is a true PG, didn't at least get some consideration to play this year considering how thin we are at guard. I do seem to gather the staff was fairly comfortable with the dual nature of Moody, Vasquez, and to a lesser degree Brown, as well as Bannan that they were going to give Kerr the ability to redshirt. In any case this team struggles in the ball handling department. That showed up in spades at the end of the game against UNC, because it was clear Travis didn't want to put Whitney back on the floor or at least preferred not to, but their ability to get open and not get sped up was really limited in that past 5 minutes when he wasn't on the floor.

Stylistically, I don't like the random movement press break/in bound especially when you can't get that first cutter open. Too often we get buried in the corner on the second or third option. Teams seem to be able to over-deny the cut, and at times too many players are in the same place begging for the ball. Just not one of my favorite things. Prefer running guys through others and it doesn't necessarily have to be scripted, but the spacing is terrible and the inbounder seems generally at a loss where he should be looking on in bound.

Anyway, those are my 85 cents. Enjoy your morning coffee.

GF24.
 
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