UNC game after results, my take

[mtgrizrule]

Sorry to be so late in this. Between work, getting home late from the game, and other obligations this will be short, but expect something from GJ later. :thumb:

In short, this game was our UCLA or Idaho game. UNC played near perfect in executing their game plan. Montana had everything go wrong that could wrong. The GRIZ played very uncharacteristic of what we have seen all year. Coach Tinkle, and his staff tried everything a staff could try to find their game. It just did not happen.

Nonetheless, Coach Tinkle impressed me with more intensity and versatility. There was not anything any coach could have done in that game.

Officiating was bad, at best. A few more calls went the way of UNC, but they sure tried making up to the GRIZ in the 2nd half. I seen every charge/block call, but 1 clearly. Every single one of those calls appeared to me as a charge. Both teams got robbed of great effort by defenders. The impact on the GRIZ was far worse. For one, UNC is a great FT shooting team. Secondly, 2 of our top players, Qvale and Selvig were limited. Thirdly, physical style would have favored the GRIZ. Qvale, Cherry, and gang were neutralized. The GRIZ knew the officials were not going to let that game take on a physical tone. It had to take away from the GRIZ aggressiveness, knowing they would likely get called for ticky tack calls. Even the UNC fans were questioning many of the calls, as I was.

Officiating did not cause the GRIZ the game, but it surely did impact the game.

The GRIZ just did not have it against UNC, for reasons beyond me. Tightly called games with struggling offensive execution, and shooting are a bad combination for the GRIZ to over come. I felt for Qvale and the coaches this game. There was nothing anything or anyone could do this game to help the GRIZ. All the GRIZ had to do was hit some outside shots, and Qvale would have been given opportunity to impact the game, like normally does. His team mates let him down and the coaching staff down.

Every player has to be disappointed in the lack of focus and execution. The coaches cannot be to hard on themselves, this game was more on the players. The coaches tried every trick in the book of coaching. Nothing worked. The GRIZ were forced to play "desperate" in the final 10 minutes, and it showed in the mistakes on both ends of the court.

What are the positives for the GRIZ from this? It has to be a wake up call, get them on track to refocus, and build a sense of urgency in finding a perimeter game. It opens the door wider for Vaughn Autry, especially with Jamar on the mend for a few more weeks. Wood is not stepping up. Tinkle gave Chase Adams an open door, he too did not take advantage of it, but the kid plays with as much heart as anyone. By they way, I arrived an hour prior to the game to watch pregame. Chase Adams was hitting most everything from the perimeter in pregame. Wood was hitting at a consistent clip too, but nowhere near Adams was. Everyone else was not hitting very many from 3. Based on pregame, I had a great feeling about Adams. Tinkle and his staff were watching pregame shoot around and drills a lot. Based on that alone, they are looking as deep as they can for answers to the perimeter game.


Mathias Ward was also impressive in mid range shooting, and looks confident from the perimeter. I wonder if he has a little more range out to 3 point range? At this point he might be worth trying out there. 2 of his perimeter shots looked like 3's to me, but I had a very bad view on each one.

I also did not see any hanging heads, and they busted their ass to the end. The results just were not there. Games like this happen now and then to every basketball team at every level. I hope the GRIZ do not let this game result in multiple losses. This is a still a very good team, and a healthy return of Jamar, hopefully sooner than later, will be a huge boost.

Speaking of injuries and returns. Cherry was not limping, but was lacking explosiveness. His ankle might be bothering him some. I doubt Reader will return this year. Mathias Ward and Hutchison have to be ready to step it up consistently, Ward is getting better every game offensively. Hutchison is unproven, but can only get better with experience.

I expect the GRIZ to get up quickly from this knockout. They will be knocking out Sac State soon. :thumb:

 

[keena52]

Thanks Pal, sorry you had to witness it, but you do a great job of evaluating the situation at hand!! I would have said lack of effort by watching Bigsky TV, but I trust that you saw more effort than was seen on B2 Network. This is a great team, just a very, very bad night, and UNC is good, not knocking them, but we just didnt show up!!!! Go Griz, and thanks mtgrizrule!!

 

[mtgrizrule]

Your welcome. It was more disappointing than painful for me. I was sitting behind the GRIZ bench. Note to self: Try not to sit behind Tinkle. He makes it hard to see at times.

The coaches really did try everything they could in this one. I am sure there was some ass chewing behind the scenes, but that is the kind of game, it is best to put it behind as a coach, and not dwell on it. I think that is best for them to recover from it shortly. Safe the nitpicking and true ass chewings until after the road trip.

 

[GrizLA]

Your welcome. It was more disappointing than painful for me. I was sitting behind the GRIZ bench. Note to self: Try not to sit behind Tinkle. He makes it hard to see at times.

The coaches really did try everything they could in this one. I am sure there was some ass chewing behind the scenes, but that is the kind of game, it is best to put it behind as a coach, and not dwell on it. I think that is best for them to recover from it shortly. Safe the nitpicking and true ass chewings until after the road trip.

Well, UM will show up the next game....ironically, UCLA had that kind of night against the Griz....things happen....

 

[Evizzerate]

Thanks Grzrule! This is the first game I've missed all season either being there, radio or streamed.
I noticed that Cherry tweaked something late in the Weber game but played through it. I think Wayne has done a great job tryiing to get Will some rest as we knew it would be a long season.
Early in the season Chase showed he had a nice shooting stroke but looked a little lost out there.Hopefully he learns qucikly. I too think Tinks has given Wood plenty of time to find his shot and by this point in the season we have to look elsewhere.
I'm really bummed about your thought of Reader not returning. Did you get some inside perspective?
I also wonder if there has been any thought of pulling Weiser off of RS? The kid can shoot and I think this years team with BQ can be special.
Glad you got to watch them bummer about the outcome. Go GRIZ

 

[uncbear]

There is no shame in losing to an SEC team like North Carolina! hold your heads up little fellers it's not so bad but it seems like you could have at least kept it a little closer than an 18 point blowout loss. :lol:

It could have been worse though--like if you lost to some team that recently transitioned from Division II who all of you said had no business being in the Big Sky. And even worse would be if that Division II team was never even competitive in Division II. Worse yet would be if you were making plans to buy your sweet 16 tickets while getting pounded by that recently former Division II team.

 

[mtgrizrule]

As for Reader, a few relatives of a few players mentioned it. I stuck around after the game, and was told more by a few others, even closer to the program. I very much believe this. I do not see a handful of sources being wrong. Then again, Tinkle has not said anything publicly. Could they be waiting for some more tests or check ups?

As for Weisner, it would be a mistake pulling his RS. I hear he is not quite ready with rest of his game. I admit, I love his shooting touch too, and I would be very tempted to bring him in this year too.

 

[Grizbeer]

Well you are certainly on the same page as Tinkle. He too said there was nothing more the coaches could have done, it was all on the players. I can't remember, though, how many minutes did Vaughn Autry have in the game? I suppose with how hot all the rest of the Griz were shooting there really wasn't anywhere to put him in, especially with how much Woods and Adams were contributing.

I did find it interesting listening to Tinkle in the pre-game show, he talked about Coach Evans expressing concern about the Griz defense, especially the 3 point percentage they are giving up, but Tinkle assured him that there really isn't an issue, just an anomaly. It's nice to know the coaches pay attention to deficiencies and address them before they become a big issue. Of course Tinkle also said in the pre-game that Qvale would have his way underneath with UNC, and that a physical game would play into the griz advantage, and in fact that was the Griz game plan. I thought maybe Tinkle has misjudged teh situation and maybe had a bad game plan coming in (especially considering Qvale has been taken out as a major factor in the first 2 Big Sky games this year due to foul issues), but in the paper today Tinkle again said the coaches did everything right, including the game plan, and the players (singling out Qvale) just didn't respond, so maybe it was the right game plan and we just have bad players who don't listen or something, I don't know.

Well here is to being confident of a big win over Sac State. They are the worst team in D-I according to RPI. Of course they have played every Big Sky team close this season losing in overtime at Eastern (in an absolute ref screw job) and Idaho State, and by 2 at home to MSU. UNC beat EWU by 2, so beating the worst team in D-I (by RPI) might not be as easy as it sounds if those darn players don't play hard.

 

[mtgrizrule]

Amazing, rather it be GRIZ football or basketball, when the GRIZ struggle in a game or two how easily some lose faith.

Doubt Tinkle as you wish regarding the UNC game or anything you want. He has learned his job well, and has become a very good coach. During the UNC game the coaches tried different line ups, different mental approaches, and strategy. I heard coach Evans and Owens giving their players advise, offering suggestions, and continually encouraging. Tinkle was passionately aggressive, and did not mince words with his players on the sidelines. Tinkle is not afraid of getting upset or getting a players face any longer? He is now doing things as a coach, many wanted to see before. I seen every player focusing on every word he was saying. One thing Tinkle has not tried yet, but might work, maybe he should find an opportune time to get T'd up, just to show his players he has their back more. He sure had a few opportunities for that against UNC. Officiating sucked!

Despite getting beet soundly and not executing, I did not see one player hanging his head. I did not see one player stop playing. If anything when they got down 15, they got out of sort because of us over playing, and being overly aggressive in hopes to make things happen.

As for questioning his personnel decisions, I understand that. I can only base decision on what I seen an hour before in pregame. FWIW, Tinkle was out there watching half up the bleachers. He was looking for anything that might give him an idea or hint of who might be able to hit some perimeter shots. There were 3 players consistently hitting perimeter shots. Chase Adams was very seldom missing anything, and looked great. Wood was hitting about 50% from what I seen. Mathias Ward was hitting most all his mid range shots. Vaughn Autry's shot looked very inconsistent, one time he was smooth, the next shot an ugly one. When a team is struggling from the perimeter, good coaches take the time to look for minor things like that in pregame warm up and shoot arounds. Based on what I seen pregame, I too would have given Chase Adams an opportunity ahead of Autry.

In addition, those coaches are around these guys every practice and game. I have heard from many, Chase Adams is a hard worker. Granted, Chase laid an egg on offense, then again he might have been nervous finally getting his chance. Chase, Mathias Ward, and Shawn Stockton were busting ass full tilt in their minutes. Chase, Shawn, and Wood were being run through picks all game, damn good job surviving the physical wear on them. As for Autry, I too am high on him, and want to see what he can do with 10 minutes plus per game. I am sure Autry wants that too, but just because it is wanted does mean he has earned it. Tinkle showed Cherry tough love as a FR and look at the results, and player Cherry is becoming. Maybe Tinkle does not believe in just handing someone minutes with that kind of potential. I do agree though, without the other options producing, maybe it is at the point where he has no choice, but to test Autry too.

As for hard work or playing hard, they were playing hard. They got beat because of mental breakdowns in every aspect of the game. In basketball, it does not matter how hard a team works when they are not executing to go with the hard work. We cannot explain why the execution was not there, or why they played flat? Those things happen now an then, when those things happen, there is not a coach at any level that can overcome those things in that given game.

Sure, I was frustrated and disappointed seeing things happen as they did. I also remember everything good I have seen from this team this year. For me, what I see the majority of the time outweighs what I very seldom see. I am not losing faith or confidence in this GRIZ team. AM I concerned? I am concerned with 2 things only, based on the sum of the season to date. (1) Perimeter shooting is this teams only noticeable weakness. They have to over come it. (2) Griz need to build guard depth beyond Will Cherry. Stockton is coming around nicely. Too bad he is not a better shooter, because rest of his game is solid and dependable. Fact is the GRIZ have to continue experimenting with Wood, Adams, and Autry until one finds good consistency. If the GRIZ do not find that while Jamar is out, I will not be surprised to see Tinkle rotate Steward, Stockton, and Jamar with Will Cherry. It is not ideal to rotate 4 players to fill 3 positions. It is beginning to look like the GRIZ have to consider it when Jamar returns.

Let's not think the ship is sinking after one stinker of a game. Let's see how this plays out over the next few games, then evaluate again.

GO GRIZ!!!!!!

 

[Grizbeer]

Don't get me wrong, I am not down on Tinkle. I think he is an O.K. coach. I don't think he is a great coach, but he is much better than he was a couple years ago. For a Big Sky level team I think he is o.k., and will continue to get better. I am happy for him to have the opportunity to learn how to be a head coach here at Montana. Hopefully at some point in his tenure that a sweep on the home floor is expected again, instead of something that creates excitement about how good the team is.

But he is not perfect. to begin with, he needs to take more responsibility for the team. I would hope as he matures as a coach he will learn this. Here is something to does continue to disappoint me about Tinkle. Know how the you can tell 100% if the Griz are going to lay an egg in a game? read the pre-game comments or listen to the pre-game interview. If Tinkle says they had a great week of practice, you can almost lay money on the fact that the team is going to stink it up in the game. If Tinkle sounds anxious and not confident, the team will shine. I can't explain why it is, maybe when Tinkle gets happy with the practice he relaxes, and the team takes its cue from him. Listening to the pre-game interview Tinkle nearly guaranteed victory - of course I am exaggerating, but he was so confident in winning it oozed out of him. Normally when you see or hear a coach like this it gets you as a fan excited - when I hear Tinkle like this I get nervous, because in my experience it means the team will not be ready to play.

As far as keeping the faith, you got me all wrong. This loss didn't change how I feel about the team at all - I think they will contend for the title, but never thought they would run away with it. The team is too up and down, inconsistent. I know everyone got excited by the win over UCLA, OSU then a home sweep to start the Big Sky. But look deeper than the surface, see the loss to USF, then come back to beat OSU. the last second shot to beat Idaho, then a good win against Fullerton on the road. Almost giving the lead away against NAU, then against a very tired WSU If Selvig doesn't shoot lights out from the 3 at the midpoint of the first period that is a totally different game, and I hope we can agree that you can't game plan on your 7' shooting lights out from the 3 every game. Qvale has not been the major factor in a game since his big game against OSU, except for the first few minutes of each 1/2 against NAU until they forced him into foul trouble again. Other coaches figured out how to stop him. It has taken Tinkle 5 games to decide he needs to work with Qvale again to get him back to being dominant.

As for the officiating, it's the Big Sky. It stinks. read back to the comments from the Weber fans from our game with them. I guarantee the officiating was as bad or worse in that game than the UNC game. If the Griz need good officiating then might as well hang up the shorts, it ain't gonna happen in this league.

What I am really trying to say is this - enjoy the team and the coaches for what they are - an upper level Big Sky team, who should finish in the top 4 in conference. They will probably end up 9-7, 10-6 and that is pretty good. Don't get so upset you have to calm down after they lose, and don't get so excited you swear Wayne tinkle is the greatest coach and start talking about NCAA tournament seeding when they win. they are coming around, but still inconsistent. Hopefully by year-end they will have everything together, and make a good run. They may have slightly better talent than a lot of teams in the league, and certainly thier best is as good as anyones.

Tinkle is not yet the kind of of coach who never loses a game he shouldn't and routinely wins games he should. After 5 years he still lays an egg that makes people shake their head. I'm saying if you pay more attention and get on a more level emotional plane you won't have to shake your head at those games, and you will realize that those games are happening less frequently. Tinkle is not a great coach yet, maybe not even a really good one yet, but he is improving, and I think he loves the University and wants to make a career here. I hope and believe it will be a successful career, but if he keeps getting hyped as a great coach by the fans and program the bar will be set too high, and he won't be able to live up to it, and he will be seen as a failure. I don't want to see that - unless he ever has another game like the PSU disaster a couple years ago, he should only get one of those in his lifetime.

I hope that clears up for you how I think and feel about this program. Go Griz.

 

[BonoboBro]

There is no shame in losing to an SEC team like North Carolina! hold your heads up little fellers it's not so bad but it seems like you could have at least kept it a little closer than an 18 point blowout loss. :lol:

It could have been worse though--like if you lost to some team that recently transitioned from Division II who all of you said had no business being in the Big Sky. And even worse would be if that Division II team was never even competitive in Division II. Worse yet would be if you were making plans to buy your sweet 16 tickets while getting pounded by that recently former Division II team.

Hey UNC is in the ACC bro. The ACC is so much more bro than the SEC because it has better lacrosse. Besides this is about the University of Northern Colorado.

 

[Grizbacker1]

Reader will redshirt this year. He didn't play in enough games to lose the year thankfully. I think he will be a nice player for the Griz down the road. I posted earlier in the season the Griz would have a hiccup or two, and the UNC game was certainly one of them. More important than losing a game is how do they respond to a little adversity. So far this year they have responded in a positive manner. I think they fo against Sac as well.

 

[mtgrizrule]

Thanks for the Reader confirmation GB. Glad to hear we will be getting him for 1 more year. It would have been a shame to lose his Redshirt with so little playing time. Out of curiosity though, are his minutes under the cutoff for NCAA standards to approve this? He has to be awfully close. If that is the case, I would also guess Lilliard from Weber State may get a redshirt approved.

 

[GrizBBIsKing]

Thanks for the Reader confirmation GB. Glad to hear we will be getting him for 1 more year. It would have been a shame to lose his Redshirt with so little playing time. Out of curiosity though, are his minutes under the cutoff for NCAA standards to approve this? He has to be awfully close. If that is the case, I would also guess Lilliard from Weber State may get a redshirt approved.

Here is info on medical redshirt:

Contrary to popular belief, there is no medical redshirt to replace a season lost to injury. A medical hardship can be granted by the governing body for a season lost completely or almost completely to injury. If a player plays in 30% or less of his/her team's games, then suffers a season ending injury, a medical hardship may be granted. A medical hardship can allow a player to gain additional eligibility beyond the standard four academic calendar years. On rare occasions, a player may be allowed to play in his or her sixth year of college if he or she suffered a serious injury which kept him or her from playing for more than one season.

Weber State plays 28 games this year in regular season. Lilliard has played 9 games. 30% of 28 is 8.4 games which I am sure they would round it to 9 games. Appears that Lilliard could possibly apply for a medical harship and get another year. Reader certainly will not be playing in more than 30% of montana's games so certainly no brainer about him not getting a medical redshirt if he applies for it. never know, he may be a player that wants to graduate within 4 years. Some have done so (not many).

 

[WILDCATFAN]

Thanks for the Reader confirmation GB. Glad to hear we will be getting him for 1 more year. It would have been a shame to lose his Redshirt with so little playing time. Out of curiosity though, are his minutes under the cutoff for NCAA standards to approve this? He has to be awfully close. If that is the case, I would also guess Lilliard from Weber State may get a redshirt approved.

Weber is planning on adding games in march. I think its 2 games which would put Lillard under the total amount of games played available for a medical redshirt cause ( I couldnt figure out how to phrase that :? )

So I think it is very likely that Lillard will get a redshirt approved. In the meantime Weber has some players that are going to need to step up big time.