UM taking Lider to Wyoming

[garizzalies]

Total guess, but I wouldn't be surprised if lider is our road warrior but only handles kickoffs at home, that way our long snapper can travel instead of two kickers

 

[PlayerRep]

I found them, same quotes in the Kicker article referring to a single practice. I'm surprised you left this one out:

Right now one of our guys (Greenberg) has never competed in a college football game and one (Sullivan) has been away for two years, so we’re going to have to put them in some game situations here the next few weeks to see really where we think we’re at.”

Doesn't sound at all like hes made a decision beyond the wyoming game. but then unless you leave that out, you can't claim to have brilliant analysis when he make the final decision

Did you miss this comment of mine? "From Delaney's quotes, it looks like UM went with the only veteran."

Also, note that headline of the thread I started: "UM taking Lider to Wyoming". Note that it doesn't say the UM has selected Lider to kick in all games for the season, or be the starter for the season, or to be the starter.

I think it's funny how you constantly want to fight another battle so often, i.e. create a straw man and argue against it, instead of just reading and comprehending the posts/discussion. There are many like you on egriz.

 

[poorgriz]

I don't get it. From reading the paper, watching a scrimmage and observing several practices, Greenberg has been the best kicker. His FG's and extra points have been good, and his kickoffs have been fine.

See the linked article. http://ravallirepublic.com/sports/college/montana/football/article_050df724-4e58-5f68-91bc-8f7fee1cd704.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

“We’ll go with Chris it looks like because he’s been on the field,” Delaney said. “Unless something drastic were to happen in the next week."

“We’ll try to give Daniel some opportunities that are meaningful and start to make a decision there. Harrison came out of spring the No. 1 guy and he’s still battling like heck. He was very good yesterday and today.”

"On Friday morning all three place-kickers hit from 35 yards. Then Lider went into a funk, missing wide left from 40 yards and wide right from 44. Greenberg was the only one to hit from all three distances (35, 40 and 44)."

From the article about Thursday's practice:

"Early in practice Lider missed from 42 yards with a swirling wind. Sullivan and Harrison Greenberg hit from that distance and the former showed off his superior leg strength."

"When the kickers took the field for a second time, all three hit from 38 yards with Sullivan showing the most lift. They moved back to 40 where Lider had his kick blocked, Sullivan was wide left and Greenberg knocked it through off the upright. Later Lider, Sullivan and Greenberg all hit from 43 yards."

http://ravallirepublic.com/sports/college/montana/football/article_671cff39-af91-5bae-a409-c95091357c40.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

At the Saturday scrimmage, Greenberg made all of his kicks. Lider missed one from 20.

I've generally supportive of coaches, and have been supportive of these coaches, but, from where I sit (which is far away admittedly), I don't get this decision.

You don't get what, that MD is making a dumb call here? Maybe he feels as if Lider is better suited for kicking off both halves.

 

[PlayerRep]

I don't get it. From reading the paper, watching a scrimmage and observing several practices, Greenberg has been the best kicker. His FG's and extra points have been good, and his kickoffs have been fine.

See the linked article. http://ravallirepublic.com/sports/college/montana/football/article_050df724-4e58-5f68-91bc-8f7fee1cd704.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

“We’ll go with Chris it looks like because he’s been on the field,” Delaney said. “Unless something drastic were to happen in the next week."

“We’ll try to give Daniel some opportunities that are meaningful and start to make a decision there. Harrison came out of spring the No. 1 guy and he’s still battling like heck. He was very good yesterday and today.”

"On Friday morning all three place-kickers hit from 35 yards. Then Lider went into a funk, missing wide left from 40 yards and wide right from 44. Greenberg was the only one to hit from all three distances (35, 40 and 44)."

From the article about Thursday's practice:

"Early in practice Lider missed from 42 yards with a swirling wind. Sullivan and Harrison Greenberg hit from that distance and the former showed off his superior leg strength."

"When the kickers took the field for a second time, all three hit from 38 yards with Sullivan showing the most lift. They moved back to 40 where Lider had his kick blocked, Sullivan was wide left and Greenberg knocked it through off the upright. Later Lider, Sullivan and Greenberg all hit from 43 yards."

http://ravallirepublic.com/sports/college/montana/football/article_671cff39-af91-5bae-a409-c95091357c40.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

At the Saturday scrimmage, Greenberg made all of his kicks. Lider missed one from 20.

I've generally supportive of coaches, and have been supportive of these coaches, but, from where I sit (which is far away admittedly), I don't get this decision.

You don't get what, that MD is making a dumb call here? Maybe he feels as if Lider is better suited for kicking off both halves.

Actually, I don't get what you just said. Would you mind putting it in English?

 

[tnt]

I found them, same quotes in the Kicker article referring to a single practice. I'm surprised you left this one out:

Right now one of our guys (Greenberg) has never competed in a college football game and one (Sullivan) has been away for two years, so we’re going to have to put them in some game situations here the next few weeks to see really where we think we’re at.”

Doesn't sound at all like hes made a decision beyond the wyoming game. but then unless you leave that out, you can't claim to have brilliant analysis when he make the final decision

Did you miss this comment of mine? "From Delaney's quotes, it looks like UM went with the only veteran."

Also, note that headline of the thread I started: "UM taking Lider to Wyoming". Note that it doesn't say the UM has selected Lider to kick in all games for the season, or be the starter for the season, or to be the starter.

I think it's funny how you constantly want to fight another battle so often, i.e. create a straw man and argue against it, instead of just reading and comprehending the posts/discussion. There are many like you on egriz.

Actually what you said was

"I don't get it. From reading the paper, watching a scrimmage and observing several practices, Greenberg has been the best kicker. His FG's and extra points have been good, and his kickoffs have been fine."

then you posted selected quotes for the article

Then quotes from another article (same quote were in the first article)

Then Concluded with

I've generally supportive of coaches, and have been supportive of these coaches, but, from where I sit (which is far away admittedly), I don't get this decision.


I agree you don't know whats going on, but want everybody to believe that Greenburg should have been the choice unless of course you are challenge in anyway then you can say "I didn't say that" That way no matter what happens you are always right. Its a skill its a great one, but over used here. Everyone sees through it.

 

[Umista]

How can I get in this parade of "Kicker Contempt" ??????

Seems to me Lider will kick off in Wyoming. His long kicks have been long and lowish, but deep.
Experienced, so it made a bit logic to me. No mention of Lider and Extra points or Field goals.

Before I jump all over Mick Delaney on lider I will wait and see what occurs during our first game.

Concerning Delaney......I am very worried we will not "fake" a play or two during punting or kicking situations. I am worried he will call a time out then simply punt or kick. Cool smart coaches have these types of calls made before game time. This wyoming game is the perfect time to call for a fake play.

Now back to Lider, perhaps he has the best ability to run, fake, pass and kick. That is my guess on why he may be going along with the deep kick-off ability and his defensive skill on returns.

Carry on with the argument ..... sorry to interupt!

 

[PTGrizzly]

[

And, of course, TNT doesn't realize that my post linked 2 articles on kickers, including the one he just linked.

You mean the smoke article about wilson that you tried to use to build up sullivan and knock Lider? I realize the case you were trying to build and how you were using correct information in a misleading manner. Classic PR

I quoted and linked 2 articles. The one you linked saying Lider would go to Wyoming, and the Wilson article, which contained the following quote (which I included):

"Early in practice Lider missed from 42 yards with a swirling wind. Sullivan and Harrison Greenberg hit from that distance and the former showed off his superior leg strength.

When the kickers took the field for a second time, all three hit from 38 yards with Sullivan showing the most lift. They moved back to 40 where Lider had his kick blocked, Sullivan was wide left and Greenberg knocked it through off the upright. Later Lider, Sullivan and Greenberg all hit from 43 yards."

Surprised you were not able to find these quotes in the Wilson article. It says that Lider msut 2 kicks, and the other kickers made all of their kicks. Now, let's year your apology.

http://ravallirepublic.com/sports/college/montana/football/article_671cff39-af91-5bae-a409-c95091357c40.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you believe the bolded to be true, then perhaps you're the one that lacks some reading comprehension as well.

 

[PlayerRep]

[

And, of course, TNT doesn't realize that my post linked 2 articles on kickers, including the one he just linked.

You mean the smoke article about wilson that you tried to use to build up sullivan and knock Lider? I realize the case you were trying to build and how you were using correct information in a misleading manner. Classic PR

I quoted and linked 2 articles. The one you linked saying Lider would go to Wyoming, and the Wilson article, which contained the following quote (which I included):

"Early in practice Lider missed from 42 yards with a swirling wind. Sullivan and Harrison Greenberg hit from that distance and the former showed off his superior leg strength.

When the kickers took the field for a second time, all three hit from 38 yards with Sullivan showing the most lift. They moved back to 40 where Lider had his kick blocked, Sullivan was wide left and Greenberg knocked it through off the upright. Later Lider, Sullivan and Greenberg all hit from 43 yards."

Surprised you were not able to find these quotes in the Wilson article. It says that Lider msut 2 kicks, and the other kickers made all of their kicks. Now, let's year your apology.

http://ravallirepublic.com/sports/college/montana/football/article_671cff39-af91-5bae-a409-c95091357c40.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you believe the bolded to be true, then perhaps you're the one that lacks some reading comprehension as well.

I was at the practice. The article and bolded language was accurate--for Greenberg. Yes, the Wyo. transfer missed a kick. Don't think that undercuts my view that Greenberg has done better than Lider, when I've been watching.

 

[Blgs Griz Fan]

This one is pretty easy to figure out. MD wanted the kicker that could kick the deepest ball to start both the first and second half of the WY game. Lider seems to have the longest kick offs.

 

[NLGrizFan]

It's because Lider is better at the deep shots. PATS... Idk WTF is going on there. MD is obliviously expecting to be stopped deep. Lider has a great leg. But I thought we snagged a drop down kicker... ??

We did. Daniel Sullivan came here from Wyoming. And through the scrimmages, it looked as if Sullivan was the one getting most of the props for his deep kicks. I realize all the kickers have been inconsistent, but from reports it seems as if Lider was the kicker struggling the most out of the three. Yes, the Wyoming game likely won't come down to a field goal, but there will definitely be games that will. And missing PAT's will cost us games as well. Lider has proven absolutely nothing in my opinion. I concede that the coaches know more than us, but from the outside, this is one of those classic Delaney WTF decisions. Hopefully, this won't cost us games, but I am extremely skeptical.

For sure. MD has made so real boner decisions throughout the last couple of season. I think the biggest one was puttin JJ under center. But that's a different thread altogether. I thought that I heard Sullivan was doing great. I would've like to see him kicking FGs for us in front of the team that cut him.

 

[umfootball]

I have heard that all 3 kickers are traveling. Greenberg has the highest percent made and is fastest to the ball (lower chance for blocked kicks) but only played in 1 college game.
My sense is that all 3 will rotate for the first 4 games and then one will get picked for conference.
It doesn't really matter who starts, as long as kicks are made.
We should expect 100% on PAT's and 85% on reasonable FG's IMO.

 

[signedbewildered]

I'm a bit amazed to learn lizards eat paper.

 

[griz71]

If Lider goes 5 of 7 on extra points against Wyoming, that is good enough for me.

You think the Cowboy "D" is so porous that we are going to score 7 TD's? Hmmmn?

 

[Harm]

The Griz are gonna get rolled... Everyone has been hoping for a few seasons stuff would be different at the start of every new season. However, time and again its been proven to be the same cruddy issues. The secondary sucks, and we can't run on teams we used to be able to roll over easily under Hack and pflu....there it is. We need a better head guy OC, yes a single one, the Co crap has sucked, find someone competent enough to do the darn job already. And find a good DC.... Our their shortcomings will again be on display when we go up against the now better teams in the BSC....you know, the ones we used to routinely kick the shit out of.....

 

[griz71]

The Griz are gonna get rolled... Everyone has been hoping for a few seasons stuff would be different at the start of every new season. However, time and again its been proven to be the same cruddy issues. The secondary sucks, and we can't run on teams we used to be able to roll over easily under Hack and pflu....there it is. We need a better head guy OC, yes a single one, the Co crap has sucked, find someone competent enough to do the darn job already. And find a good DC.... Our their shortcomings will again be on display when we go up against the now better teams in the BSC....you know, the ones we used to routinely kick the shit out of.....

WOW...the serious Negative Nellie has spoken. Scheesh :!:

 

[Brock Landers]

So I'd be really curious to see our total FGs made % from the last two seasons, and where that stacks up against the rest of FCS. These struggles just blow my mind.

 

[cclarkblues]

Any truth to the rumor that when Delaney was asked about it, he replied "Lider? I don't even know her." ?

 

[uofmman1122]

Chris Kluwe (his politics aside) made a great point about kickers in college, and how most coaches know next to nothing about how to coach kickers.

Hauck was a master special teams coach, which is why it makes sense that three of our best kickers ever played under him. It stands to reason that if the special teams coach doesn't know what he's doing (coaches, I should say. Our special teams co-coordinators are the safeties coach and the tight ends coach... :? ), we can't really expect any meaningful improvement in the kicking game (hence why we're probably not seeing any).

Want to know why your team has a shitty kicker? Because your team has a shitty coach who doesn't know the first thing about the basic fundamentals of kicking and punting, but figures that a soccer castoff will do just fine so long as he gets screamed at loudly enough.

In my five years of college ball, and eight years in the NFL, I did not have a single special teams coach or head coach who had the faintest idea how it is that I did my job, and that is how it is EVERYWHERE. (I was lucky that early on in high school, I found a couple coaches who did know a thing or two so I could teach myself later). Now a lot of this is due to the fact that people just don't care about kicking, because it's only nine or 10 plays out of the game (whereas the offense and defense GLOREEEEE BOYZ get 35 to 40), but can you imagine if your linebacker coach had no idea how to teach the fundamentals of tackling and assignment responsibility? Or if your quarterbacks coach didn't know what proper throwing mechanics were? [Insert Tebow/Jets joke here.] The fan base for that team would lose its shit, and for good reason, but somehow when it comes to kicking, it's perfectly fine to regard an eminently understandable series of motions as some sort of witchcraft.

The reason for this is because people are fucking lazy, and secretly believe that "BOY GOLLY IF I STEPPED OUT ON THAT FIELD I COULD SHOW THOSE NAMBY-ASS KICKERS JUST HOW EASY IT IS TO MAKE A GULDARNED FIELD GOAL," like some sort of chorus-line action hero. Then they eat another log of Velveeta and yell at the TV when their team loses by two in the Fuddrucker's Futtbucker Bowl Brought to You by Mark Emmert's Lack of Basic Human Conscience.

If you want your team to stop trotting out Shanky McWideleft, then you need to get on the coaching staff's collective asses and force them to actually learn the fundamentals of kicking, and not just regard the special teams coordinator as the bottom rung on the ladder toward head coach.

Until then, yeah, good luck with those 35-yarders.

 

[EverettGriz]

Then they eat another log of Velveeta and yell at the TV when their team loses by two in the Fuddrucker's Futtbucker Bowl Brought to You by Mark Emmert's Lack of Basic Human Conscience

Now that's funny!!

 

[BWahlberg]

. We need a better head guy OC, yes a single one, the Co crap has sucked, find someone competent enough to do the darn job already.

We had one of the very best offenses in the conference last season, wtf are you talking about?