UM reports 6.7 percent drop in enrollment

[PlayerRep]

Of course it won't sit well. Especially in light of the fact UM is retaining their students (unlike MSU....)

Even PR leaves things out: "While the spring enrollment is less than last fall's enrollment of 15,294 students, also a record, Marley explained that university enrollments typically drop from fall to spring." sorta kills his "head in the sand issue" especially when MSUs drop was greater in percentage and numbers.

Didnt msu just get a big bonus from the state for retention?

retention within the MUS system, not retention at the campus. So if a student attends MSU in the fall, then transfers to a different school (including a COT) it counts as retention for MSU.

Has UM gotten any bonuses?

 

['68griz]

My daughter is an Junior in high school and had made it clear she wants to pursue pharmacy after she graduates. She has received information from MSU, Carroll, and UGF. I know the counseling office makes all this information available to all the schools, but it appears as if UM is not even trying?

Unfortunately UM hasn't been trying for years. It is downright embarrassing how bad UM is at marketing for new students and retaining current students. MSU has been kicking UM's ass in that regard by a large margin for years. Is it any wonder we see these enrollment figures at both schools?!?!?

Yup, right you are!!! When our daughter, who was a top 1% student, graduated from Sentinel High, was looking at colleges, UM was among the very last to every contact her (out of like 200 college, nationwide). True, she had no intention of going to college "at home," but she definitely was the kind of kid UM should have been recruiting HARD. She went out-of-state, ended up coming back to Montana Tech for grad school, with a full-ride tuition and fees scholarship, plus a $1000/month stipend for 2 1/2 years. Through it all, she is a devoted Griz fans, has converted her husband (whose brother went to MSU and who he would have liked to root for) to Griz fandom, and attended numerous late year, cold Griz regular season and play off games. Sometimes you just have to bring them up right and hope for the best!

 

['68griz]

An addendum: I can totally understand why UM enrollment is dropping, but it breaks my heart.

 

[tnt]

It's a national trend, and isn't isolated to UM.

This article claims that the reason for the decline is that, due to the improving economy, non-traditional students are finding jobs and are deciding not to go to school. It states that it's not related to recent high school graduates opting out of college.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/college_guide/blog/college_enrollment_declines_an.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Of course, that won't sit well with people who have a differing agenda...

Of course it won't sit well. Especially in light of the fact UM is retaining their students (unlike MSU....)

Even PR leaves things out: "While the spring enrollment is less than last fall's enrollment of 15,294 students, also a record, Marley explained that university enrollments typically drop from fall to spring." sorta kills his "head in the sand issue" especially when MSUs drop was greater in percentage and numbers.

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/09/04/more-college-leaders-are-concerned-about-student-enrollment" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://nscresearchcenter.org/wp-content/uploads/CurrentTermEnrollment-Fall2013.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Using stats in your second linked article:

Enrollment was down 1.5% nationally, but up .3% in the 4-year public schools in fall 2013. UM's enrollment was down, and down alot.

In Montana, enrollment was down .4% in the fall of 2013. UM's was down way more than that.

Again, I love people who cite stats that don't support their views, especially ones that undercut that views.

Enrollment was down .7% in the West in the fall of 2013. UM's was down way more than that.

IF you want you play statistics you will also discover thst UM had 872 graduations significantly more than MSU. Take it the next step and look at the retention rates you will find the two schools not only nearly identical when including their other campuses but when looking at the Missoula College an almost unbelivable reate of retention but graduation as well. It is significant enough I'm almost ready to rethink my postion as to how the Missoula college is being utilized.

I personally enjoy folks like you PR who mine statistics for the purpose of maintaining some passive aggresive high school debate mentality without even an attempt to apply them, understand them, or use them for their intended purpose.

You see in this instance you are a liar You are taking annual numbers applying them to a half year and that half year being the period of time almost all schools have a drpo in enrollment. You also fail to apply those numbers to the entire poulation of state or all units of the University theu apply. You ignore the comparitive figures of retention and graduation, You have no clue how many are taking online courses in the stste and on goes the lidt.

Instead you take a couple of numbers and instead of having a clue as to what they mean or taking the time to learn what they mean choose to dazzle us with bullshit. Trouble is fewer and fewer are being dazzled. While you may be able to beat a few into submission, you more often than not end up with a fair number of people wondering just exactly when you acquired your early onset alzheimers. The kind ones pity you, the rest laugh at you. You keep repeating the same three or four arguments over and over occasionaly throwing in a new "fact" gleaned from either the quickest of google searches or quickest skim of an article using in order to apply them to the subject at hand. Its one of the first signs of the march of this disease.

You have failed to realize your superior intellect has failed you and more often than not and look like a blithering old man living in the past.

BTW, you say that my "facts" don't support my views. Having not stated my views, thats a pretty bold statement. You didn't have a thing to say as to why UM has far better retention than MSU this year. Nor a thing to refute thst enrollment decline is a national issue as stated by All Weather Fan. I don't recall issuing an opinion beyond that.

You also asked if UM recieved any bonus money? The answer is in this thread. Actually I'll give you freebee. The answer is yes. Add all the units together that RE is reponsible for and it exceds that of MSU.

 

[KoolMoeDee]

IF you want you play statistics you will also discover thst UM had 872 graduations significantly more than MSU. Take it the next step and look at the retention rates you will find the two schools not only nearly identical when including their other campuses but when looking at the Missoula College an almost unbelivable reate of retention but graduation as well. It is significant enough I'm almost ready to rethink my postion as to how the Missoula college is being utilized.

MSU had over a 1,000 graduates for fall 2013

 

[Grizbeer]

Of course it won't sit well. Especially in light of the fact UM is retaining their students (unlike MSU....)

Even PR leaves things out: "While the spring enrollment is less than last fall's enrollment of 15,294 students, also a record, Marley explained that university enrollments typically drop from fall to spring." sorta kills his "head in the sand issue" especially when MSUs drop was greater in percentage and numbers.

Didnt msu just get a big bonus from the state for retention?

retention within the MUS system, not retention at the campus. So if a student attends MSU in the fall, then transfers to a different school (including a COT) it counts as retention for MSU.

Has UM gotten any bonuses?

According to the link attached um received $568,000 in retention bonuses about half of what msu received. Note um previously had a higher retention rate than msu and after last year is slightly lower when Missoula college and gallant in college is included um has a better retention rate, possibly because um has a much closer relationship to Missoula college than msu to gallatin college.

Clearly um has work to do to improve enrollment and become attractive to students again but that battle shows in the fall number not the spring numbers. As the numbers I posted above show um kept a higher percentage of enrolled from fall to spring than msu did. Msu has also done a much better job of getting previous students who had left the school to come back to boost enrollment numbers.

 

[tnt]

IF you want you play statistics you will also discover thst UM had 872 graduations significantly more than MSU. Take it the next step and look at the retention rates you will find the two schools not only nearly identical when including their other campuses but when looking at the Missoula College an almost unbelivable reate of retention but graduation as well. It is significant enough I'm almost ready to rethink my postion as to how the Missoula college is being utilized.

MSU had over a 1,000 graduates for fall 2013

Including their summer graduates and school of nursing which cycle ends in the fall semester........

 

[tnt]

Didnt msu just get a big bonus from the state for retention?

retention within the MUS system, not retention at the campus. So if a student attends MSU in the fall, then transfers to a different school (including a COT) it counts as retention for MSU.

Has UM gotten any bonuses?

According to the link attached um received $568,000 in retention bonuses about half of what msu received. Note um previously had a higher retention rate than msu and after last year is slightly lower when Missoula college and gallant in college is included um has a better retention rate, possibly because um has a much closer relationship to Missoula college than msu to gallatin college.

Clearly um has work to do to improve enrollment and become attractive to students again but that battle shows in the fall number not the spring numbers. As the numbers I posted above show um kept a higher percentage of enrolled from fall to spring than msu did. Msu has also done a much better job of getting previous students who had left the school to come back to boost enrollment numbers.

No doubt there is work to be done. However, its important to look beyond retention numbers and look at actual completions. (the other side of the link) As a number of faculty have pointed out., retaining students only to flunk them out as sophomores doese little good. This is one of the lsrge differences in a science vs lideral arts school. It gets harder as you go at MSU. The liberal arts are more of an endurance race......

 

[PlayerRep]

It's a national trend, and isn't isolated to UM.

This article claims that the reason for the decline is that, due to the improving economy, non-traditional students are finding jobs and are deciding not to go to school. It states that it's not related to recent high school graduates opting out of college.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/college_guide/blog/college_enrollment_declines_an.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Of course, that won't sit well with people who have a differing agenda...

Of course it won't sit well. Especially in light of the fact UM is retaining their students (unlike MSU....)

Even PR leaves things out: "While the spring enrollment is less than last fall's enrollment of 15,294 students, also a record, Marley explained that university enrollments typically drop from fall to spring." sorta kills his "head in the sand issue" especially when MSUs drop was greater in percentage and numbers.

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/09/04/more-college-leaders-are-concerned-about-student-enrollment" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://nscresearchcenter.org/wp-content/uploads/CurrentTermEnrollment-Fall2013.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Using stats in your second linked article:

Enrollment was down 1.5% nationally, but up .3% in the 4-year public schools in fall 2013. UM's enrollment was down, and down alot.

In Montana, enrollment was down .4% in the fall of 2013. UM's was down way more than that.

Again, I love people who cite stats that don't support their views, especially ones that undercut that views.

Enrollment was down .7% in the West in the fall of 2013. UM's was down way more than that.

IF you want you play statistics you will also discover thst UM had 872 graduations significantly more than MSU. Take it the next step and look at the retention rates you will find the two schools not only nearly identical when including their other campuses but when looking at the Missoula College an almost unbelivable reate of retention but graduation as well. It is significant enough I'm almost ready to rethink my postion as to how the Missoula college is being utilized.

I personally enjoy folks like you PR who mine statistics for the purpose of maintaining some passive aggresive high school debate mentality without even an attempt to apply them, understand them, or use them for their intended purpose.

You see in this instance you are a liar You are taking annual numbers applying them to a half year and that half year being the period of time almost all schools have a drpo in enrollment. You also fail to apply those numbers to the entire poulation of state or all units of the University theu apply. You ignore the comparitive figures of retention and graduation, You have no clue how many are taking online courses in the stste and on goes the lidt.

Instead you take a couple of numbers and instead of having a clue as to what they mean or taking the time to learn what they mean choose to dazzle us with bullshit. Trouble is fewer and fewer are being dazzled. While you may be able to beat a few into submission, you more often than not end up with a fair number of people wondering just exactly when you acquired your early onset alzheimers. The kind ones pity you, the rest laugh at you. You keep repeating the same three or four arguments over and over occasionaly throwing in a new "fact" gleaned from either the quickest of google searches or quickest skim of an article using in order to apply them to the subject at hand. Its one of the first signs of the march of this disease.

You have failed to realize your superior intellect has failed you and more often than not and look like a blithering old man living in the past.

BTW, you say that my "facts" don't support my views. Having not stated my views, thats a pretty bold statement. You didn't have a thing to say as to why UM has far better retention than MSU this year. Nor a thing to refute thst enrollment decline is a national issue as stated by All Weather Fan. I don't recall issuing an opinion beyond that.

You also asked if UM recieved any bonus money? The answer is in this thread. Actually I'll give you freebee. The answer is yes. Add all the units together that RE is reponsible for and it exceds that of MSU.

Actually, I didn't take or mine any numbers. I took today's online Missoulian article and used the article's headline as the title of the thread. I excerpted whole paragraphs from the article and linked the article. Later, I looked at articles linked by other posters in the thread, and posted stats that undercut the comments those posters were making.

I assume you've seen Kool's post that says MSU had more December graduates than UM did. Guess that makes you the "liar".

As usual, most of your post is not understandable.

 

[PlayerRep]

Didnt msu just get a big bonus from the state for retention?

retention within the MUS system, not retention at the campus. So if a student attends MSU in the fall, then transfers to a different school (including a COT) it counts as retention for MSU.

Has UM gotten any bonuses?

According to the link attached um received $568,000 in retention bonuses about half of what msu received. Note um previously had a higher retention rate than msu and after last year is slightly lower when Missoula college and gallant in college is included um has a better retention rate, possibly because um has a much closer relationship to Missoula college than msu to gallatin college.

Clearly um has work to do to improve enrollment and become attractive to students again but that battle shows in the fall number not the spring numbers. As the numbers I posted above show um kept a higher percentage of enrolled from fall to spring than msu did. Msu has also done a much better job of getting previous students who had left the school to come back to boost enrollment numbers.

Thx. Good information and analysis. I would submit, however, that it should be expected that MSU would have a higher percentage drop from fall to spring than UM, because MSU's enrollment went up significantly in the fall, and UM's enrollment was down significantly. It also looks like MSU graduated significantly more students in the fall than UM did. In this situation, keeping a higher percentage than MSU from fall to spring may or may not be meaningful. UM enrollment had declined in the fall, and presumably was closer to its base of committed students. MSU's enrollment was up significantly, and presumably MSU had more soft and less committed students in the increase (and had not lost some of its less committed students like UM presumably did). What's more meaningful is that UM's enrollment is down from last spring (apples to apples), and MSU's enrollment is up from last spring (again, apples to apples).

There may be reasons to explain some of MSU's increases (and many believe there are some reasons for UM's decline), but the disparity between MSU's increases and UM's declines are very very significant. UM appears to be in trouble and unable to reverse the decline--or even the rate of decline. The loss of operating budget from tuition and state funding, which is based on number of student, is hurting UM and its programs and it's going to get much worse in the immediate future. Fewer course selection, fewer professors, fewer programs, continuing bad press, etc. is going to compound the problem for UM.

It would be interesting to look at the raw numbers at each school. Regular UM or Missoula college. Full-time or part-time. Men or women. Etc.

 

[PlayerRep]

retention within the MUS system, not retention at the campus. So if a student attends MSU in the fall, then transfers to a different school (including a COT) it counts as retention for MSU.

Has UM gotten any bonuses?

According to the link attached um received $568,000 in retention bonuses about half of what msu received. Note um previously had a higher retention rate than msu and after last year is slightly lower when Missoula college and gallant in college is included um has a better retention rate, possibly because um has a much closer relationship to Missoula college than msu to gallatin college.

Clearly um has work to do to improve enrollment and become attractive to students again but that battle shows in the fall number not the spring numbers. As the numbers I posted above show um kept a higher percentage of enrolled from fall to spring than msu did. Msu has also done a much better job of getting previous students who had left the school to come back to boost enrollment numbers.

No doubt there is work to be done. However, its important to look beyond retention numbers and look at actual completions. (the other side of the link) As a number of faculty have pointed out., retaining students only to flunk them out as sophomores doese little good. This is one of the lsrge differences in a science vs lideral arts school. It gets harder as you go at MSU. The liberal arts are more of an endurance race......

Those students retained result in more tuition and more state revenue. That is a positive.

 

[horribilisfan8184]

Fantastic weekend in Billings. High school girls and boys basketball playoffs. Best attended two day event at Metra, Home Improvement Show in full force. Almost 400 booths including a spectacular MSU Alumni booth. Griz, not so much. Wake up Admin!!!!!!!

 

[griz4life]

Fantastic weekend in Billings. High school girls and boys basketball playoffs. Best attended two day event at Metra, Home Improvement Show in full force. Almost 400 booths including a spectacular MSU Alumni booth. Griz, not so much. Wake up Admin!!!!!!!

I noticed the same. Montana State University is really doing an excellent job of being Thee state university.

 

[UMGriz75]

Engstrom will tell the Regents "UM has an enrollment problem," state in interviews that UM needs to "do more in recruiting," and then ... plop. Very little happens under this Administration unless it is to cave to some PC dogma somewhere at student expense. It's really hard to look at anything they do in Main Hall and say "yes, that's a positive forward movement."

It just doesn't happen under Engstrom.

 

[ordigger]

It could be worse....Dartmouth just had a 14 percent drop in enrollments, and they're Ivy. This is potentially the result of their own scandals....

http://www.educationpost.com.hk/res...h-articles&utm_campaign=outbrain-paid-h1-2014

Two US Ivy League universities saw application numbers drop this semester, with the reasons ranging from scandal to demographic changes, to a decline in the number of high school graduates in recent years.

Dartmouth saw a steep drop in applications, which fell to 14 per cent at 19,235 – the biggest decline in 21 years, according to a university spokesman cited by Bloomberg.

The figures come after a year in which Dartmouth, based in New Hampshire, sought to clean up its image following reports of fraternity hazing, complaints about the failure to address sexual harassment, and allegations of gender-based discrimination on campus. Faculty have also protested the university’s Greek fraternity system, which they say promoted violence and binge drinking.

Dartmouth spokesman Tommy Bruce said the university was taking the decline in applications “seriously” and were “investigating the causes”, the report said.

The university has also decided to stop crediting high-school Advanced Placement courses – a move that could also impact future admissions as many applicants take AP courses.

Meanwhile, applications to Harvard University fell by 2.1 per cent, from 35,023 last year to just 34,295 this year.

The university attributed the decrease to the “contraction in the number of US high school graduates” over the past two years.

The number of US high school graduates began to fall with the Class of 2012, according to a report last year by the Western Interstate Commission for Higher Education, Bloomberg reported.

Other Ivy League schools, however, such as Princeton, Yale and Brown universities and the University of Pennsylvania, saw upticks in applications. Columbia and Cornell universities have yet to release data.

 

[grizatwork]

It could be worse....Dartmouth just had a 14 percent drop in enrollments, and they're Ivy. This is potentially the result of their own scandals....

http://www.educationpost.com.hk/res...h-articles&utm_campaign=outbrain-paid-h1-2014

Two US Ivy League universities saw application numbers drop this semester, with the reasons ranging from scandal to demographic changes, to a decline in the number of high school graduates in recent years.

Dartmouth saw a steep drop in applications, which fell to 14 per cent at 19,235 – the biggest decline in 21 years, according to a university spokesman cited by Bloomberg.

The figures come after a year in which Dartmouth, based in New Hampshire, sought to clean up its image following reports of fraternity hazing, complaints about the failure to address sexual harassment, and allegations of gender-based discrimination on campus. Faculty have also protested the university’s Greek fraternity system, which they say promoted violence and binge drinking.

Dartmouth spokesman Tommy Bruce said the university was taking the decline in applications “seriously” and were “investigating the causes”, the report said.

The university has also decided to stop crediting high-school Advanced Placement courses – a move that could also impact future admissions as many applicants take AP courses.

Meanwhile, applications to Harvard University fell by 2.1 per cent, from 35,023 last year to just 34,295 this year.

The university attributed the decrease to the “contraction in the number of US high school graduates” over the past two years.

The number of US high school graduates began to fall with the Class of 2012, according to a report last year by the Western Interstate Commission for Higher Education, Bloomberg reported.

Other Ivy League schools, however, such as Princeton, Yale and Brown universities and the University of Pennsylvania, saw upticks in applications. Columbia and Cornell universities have yet to release data.

Prepare to be PlayerReped

 

[wbtfg]

Big difference between enrollment and application numbers. Both Harvard and Dartmouth will have full freshman classes.

 

[tnt]

Big difference between enrollment and application numbers. Both Harvard and Dartmouth will have full freshman classes.

Of course they will, but the whole shit flows downhill thing applies. The less selective schools will ultimatley suffer the enrollment drop.

 

[billings_poke]

Yet MSU, UWyo, and others continue to set enrollment records and see more and more students on campus