UM Head Coach Options - Hypothetical Speaking

[Da Boyz Mom]

Yeah we aren’t too far apart I don’t think in terms of your first paragraph obviously those relationships will need to be built and sustained over time. Will Griz nation be forgiving in the time it takes to build those relationships? HC says “it’s going to take time to get thing rolling.” Are we okay with that? (I don’t think it would or should, but I’m saying regional ties provide an advantage initially).

In terms of your second para, to me thats a whole different discussion. With Montana’s recruiting budget, I wouldn’t find that extremely valuable. Anyone who isn’t P5 typically looks at regions where their airport has direct flights. That goes from a budgeting standpoint as well as a kids likelihood to come to that school and stay at that school. From what I have found, a kid in to use your example, Louisiana is going to say coach it takes me 3 different flights to get to Missoula. How do my parents come watch my game? How am I supposed to go home on vacation? Additionally, like I said recruiting budgets aren’t what you want them to be, as frustrating as that might be. Montana doesn’t want to pay a coach to take those expensive flights down and back 2-3 times a year.

Again, I have promoted Neuheisel, so I’m not saying Montana ties are directly needed, so like I said I think were kind on the same page. I just think there’s more value to those ties than what’s on the surface.

Fair enough. I was just throwing out a state with more talent than Montana. Change it to Colorado or Texas? My point is: Montana ties can be made within weeks. I will admit that my view may be skewed because I'm not the type of person that cares where people come from if I like them.

To be honest this type of thinking (ie must have ties to the organization to be considered) seems strange. In what other type of hiring process would this be acceptable, let alone preferred? It would seem to severely limit the number of qualified candidates that would be considered, which in the long run would be detrimental to the organization. I realize it's not your average everyday job hire but still... Do we want the best coach we can possibly get or just the best one who has ties to UM? I want the former rather than the latter.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

Fair enough. I was just throwing out a state with more talent than Montana. Change it to Colorado or Texas? My point is: Montana ties can be made within weeks. I will admit that my view may be skewed because I'm not the type of person that cares where people come from if I like them.

To be honest this type of thinking (ie must have ties to the organization to be considered) seems strange. In what other type of hiring process would this be acceptable, let alone preferred? It would seem to severely limit the number of qualified candidates that would be considered, which in the long run would be detrimental to the organization. I realize it's not your average everyday job hire but still... Do we want the best coach we can possibly get or just the best one who has ties to UM? I want the former rather than the latter.

I agree with you, but I think it's more common than we see for average everyday jobs; especially government/public university jobs. They are probably required to be open for applications for a period of time, then those applications are thrown in the trash because they already know the winner is coming from within via promotion.

I think the very fact that this isn't an average everyday job is precisely why we can't think that way if/when the time comes. People would have problems with it. "Not even from Montana." "Doesn't know about Montana." etc. Hell, we have a defensive number tradition where a candidate born 1 1/2 hours west of Missoula is ineligible, but a candidate born 8 hours east of Missoula is eligible because he has to be from Montana. It's very ingrained, and I believe it can adversely affect recruiting at times. Those wanting change should shed the "Montana Ties" mantra. We can't say a player from Texas becomes a Montanan the minute he puts on a Griz helmet and not think the same about a coach from wherever doesn't do the same the minute he signs the contract. These are just my opinions.

 

[Missoula223]

Fair enough. I was just throwing out a state with more talent than Montana. Change it to Colorado or Texas? My point is: Montana ties can be made within weeks. I will admit that my view may be skewed because I'm not the type of person that cares where people come from if I like them.

To be honest this type of thinking (ie must have ties to the organization to be considered) seems strange. In what other type of hiring process would this be acceptable, let alone preferred? It would seem to severely limit the number of qualified candidates that would be considered, which in the long run would be detrimental to the organization. I realize it's not your average everyday job hire but still... Do we want the best coach we can possibly get or just the best one who has ties to UM? I want the former rather than the latter.

I don’t know if you have been reading my previous posts, but obviously most qualified is the most important thing. Realistically though, you’re going to be looking at 10 guys with very similar qualifications. What are some things you look at when that’s the case? Experience? Age? Offensive/defensive background? Head coach experience?

 

[UncleRico]

Fair enough. I was just throwing out a state with more talent than Montana. Change it to Colorado or Texas? My point is: Montana ties can be made within weeks. I will admit that my view may be skewed because I'm not the type of person that cares where people come from if I like them.

To be honest this type of thinking (ie must have ties to the organization to be considered) seems strange. In what other type of hiring process would this be acceptable, let alone preferred? It would seem to severely limit the number of qualified candidates that would be considered, which in the long run would be detrimental to the organization. I realize it's not your average everyday job hire but still... Do we want the best coach we can possibly get or just the best one who has ties to UM? I want the former rather than the latter.

I think it is important to have some of his staff have a connection at least to the state of Montana. Head coach not necessarily. When the Griz were at it's best we won the in state recruiting battles. Not necessarily anymore. And I believe that Choate brought in the one guy that changed it all. BJ Robertson, The guy was a recruiting stud. He knew every coach in the state and built relationships with them all. Brian Armstrong was another really good hire for the Cats. Both those two were former head coaches in the Frontier. Griz had a similar guy in Jace Schillinger. The issue is keeping guys like that as assistants because of low pay and time commitments away from family. While out of state is important to add in particular skill kids the Griz have to do better in recruiting in state. Being a Bobcat or Griz means more to kids that grow up here. Especially offensive lineman. If this is it for Bobby I think any coach that somes from anywhere else would be wise to find his BJ Robertson. PS BJ left MSU and is teaching in Whitehall the last I heard.

 

[DrainBramage]

Justin Green -
Griz star player experience
NFL experience
Reportable popular with the players & would help with retention
Should understand how to use running backs effectively
High degree of recruiting knowledge
Experienced in the Bigsky
Young, but not jailbait young for a coach.
About as loyal to a program as could be
Would take a step up in pay

He may lack coordinator experience, but a head coaching job is less about the X&O and more about the Jimmy's and John's.

 

[GrizRealist]

There is some serious Stitt PTSD on this board. We hire an outsider for the first time in I can't even remember how long, he fails (sorta) and now any candidate that doesn't have ties to the program or state is ineligible. Not exactly a sample size that screams definitive. Anyone who has coached college football for any period of time is aware of UM's program. They may not understand the minutia within it, but that might be a good thing.

There is far too much internal hiring happening in the athletic department as a whole, which has led to a lot of its complacency. This in turn has stunted UM's ability to adapt as a program to a more modern version of college athletics. Everyone is living in the past and pretending the recipe from 20 years ago works today just as good as it did back then. News flash, just because you do what you've always done doesn't mean you'll get what you always got.

 

[GrizRealist]

Justin Green -
Griz star player experience
NFL experience
Reportable popular with the players & would help with retention
Should understand how to use running backs effectively
High degree of recruiting knowledge
Experienced in the Bigsky
Young, but not jailbait young for a coach.
About as loyal to a program as could be
Would take a step up in pay

He may lack coordinator experience, but a head coaching job is less about the X&O and more about the Jimmy's and John's.

 

[Griz til I die]

There is some serious Stitt PTSD on this board. We hire an outsider for the first time in I can't even remember how long, he fails (sorta) and now any candidate that doesn't have ties to the program or state is ineligible. Not exactly a sample size that screams definitive. Anyone who has coached college football for any period of time is aware of UM's program. They may not understand the minutia within it, but that might be a good thing.

There is far too much internal hiring happening in the athletic department as a whole, which has led to a lot of its complacency. This in turn has stunted UM's ability to adapt as a program to a more modern version of college athletics. Everyone is living in the past and pretending the recipe from 20 years ago works today just as good as it did back then. News flash, just because you do what you've always done doesn't mean you'll get what you always got.

You're apparently not paying attention: Here's a list of all the coaches and which ones are not been internal:
Football: Bobby Hauck. Came from San Diego State by way of UNLV. Yes he was with us once before but this was not an internal hire.
Soccer: Chris Citowicki. Came from North Dakota as an assistant before he was previously a D3 head coach. Probably our best coach in the department.
Men's Basketball: Travis Decuire. Decuire did play for us, but never had coached at UM before he got the job here. He was at CAL back when they were actually respectable
Women's Basketball: Brian Holsinger: Was an assistant at Oregon State an Washington State (two outstanding women's programs) and was the head coach at Tech as well. His re-build is over and the Lady Griz are expected to be one of the favorites to win the league title.
Track & Field: Doug Fraley. Was hired last year from Washington State and Tulane before that. He did a phenomenal job in his first season and he's got a bunch of talent returning.

So as you can see, all of the major sports teams at UM have coaches that were external hires.

 

[rgrizfan]

Just curious...when was the last time a Griz football coach moved up or was considered for a better position with a bigger program?

 

[uofmman1122]

Just curious...when was the last time a Griz football coach moved up or was considered for a better position with a bigger program?

I heard Pflugrad got some offers after the 2011 season (obviously before the whole shit storm went down), but he turned them down. That's probably the last time, I believe.

 

[GrizCC1979]

https://gobulldogs.com/staff-directory/brian-armstrong/2931

Let’s go back to Brian Armstrong. Raised East Helena, Lots of great coaching experience including head coach at Rocky and great work at MSU. Now at Fresno State coaching Offensive Line. Potentially could be looking to retire in Montana eventually? I suspect Fresno not the end point for him. He would know current players well versed in newer coaching and recruiting modalities and could navigate instate and out of state recruiting. Media demeanor knowledgable and candid. I’m in favor of finishing out season and supporting these players to the max all season. Montana ties-referring to the state not University- preferable but not mandatory in my opinion.

 

[Stop_HammerTime69]

As a way to pass the time and in an attempt to add some optimism, I got to thinking about who would be some realistic options for the head coach at UM should a change occur. Given the failure that is Hauck’s second tenure as UM’s coach, I thought it would be interesting to see what options are out there if a true national search was done where the boosters and athletic department don’t automatically go looking for some coach with Montana ties. Some attributes that would be nice, but aren’t necessarily required would be:
• Young/Youngish
• Previous coaching success
• Coaching lineage
• Good recruiter
• Offensive Minded
• No ties to UM (this needs to happen)
• FCS Head Coach/Coordinator, G5 Coordinator, P5 Position Coach

I came up with a list of names based on my background with college football and various coaching tree’s. I’d love to hear some other names that are out there. Might be a nice way to pass the time.


Mack Leftwich (Age 28) – Texas State Offensive Coordinator – Current Salary: Unknown
• Bio: https://txst.com/sports/football/roster/coaches/mack-leftwich/1601
• Twitter: https://twitter.com/Coach_Leftwich
• Was the QB coach at Incarnate Word for 4 seasons, then the OC there last season (had the #1 D-1 offense), and now the OC at Texas State. This season they are averaging 273 yard a game through the air and 212 on the ground, as well as 42 points per game. He's young (28) and played high school Quarterback in Texas and Pennsylvania (Penn player of the year as a senior). Played college QB at UTEP and started several games for them until an injury ultimately forced him to medically retire. Worth mentioning too that his dad, Spencer, has been a college coach for over 25 years and is currently the assistant head coach/O-line coach at UTEP. Would be great to have inroads in Texas. His salary at Texas State, although I can't seem to locate in on a quick search, is likely small enough that an FCS head coaching job would be pretty enticing (head coach at TX State only makes 800K). He has also played recently enough that he understands the state of the game and recruiting from the perspective of a player better than most old farts are going to.

Marcus Arroyo (Age 43) – Not Currently Coaching – Salary: NA
• Bio: https://unlvrebels.com/sports/football/roster/coaches/marcus-arroyo/3265
• Twitter: https://twitter.com/coacharroyo
Arroyo most recently was the head coach of UNLV for three seasons (2020-2022). He previously served as assistant head coach and offensive coordinator at the University of Oregon, where they won the Pac-12 Conference Championship and earned a Rose Bowl spot. Under his leadership, the Ducks went 27-12 overall and played in three bowl games. He played a crucial role in developing players like Penei Sewell, who won the Outland Trophy, and quarterback Justin Herbert, who had a stellar senior season under his playcalling with 3,333 passing yards, 32 touchdowns, and a 66.7% completion rate, ranking 15th nationally in scoring. In 2018, Arroyo's offense achieved a rare feat, with a 3,000-yard passer, 1,000-yard rusher, and 1,000-yard receiver. As co-offensive coordinator in 2017, he helped Oregon lead the Pac-12 in scoring and rush yards per game. Before Oregon, Arroyo coached at Oklahoma State, improving their rushing game significantly and grooming standout running back Justice Hill. He had an NFL stint with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers as interim offensive coordinator, achieving impressive results, including two 1,000-yard receivers. Arroyo's coaching journey began with the Atlanta Falcons in 2013. He also coached at Southern Mississippi, California, Wyoming, and San Jose State, his alma mater, where he played quarterback from 1998-2002. Arroyo holds a degree in kinesiology from San Jose State and hails from Colfax, California.

Brett Bartolone (Age 29) – Colorado WR Coach – Current Salary $315,000.
• Bio: https://cubuffs.com/sports/football/roster/coaches/brett-bartolone/4043
• Twitter: https://twitter.com/coachbartolone?lang=en
• Currently with the Buffs, was Jackson State's 2022 offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach. He mentored Shedeur Sanders to MVP honors, with impressive stats: 3,403 yards, 36 touchdowns, and 175 rushing yards. Jackson State ranked 10th in passing and 12th in pass efficiency. Before that, he was an offensive analyst and assistant quarterbacks coach at the University of Nevada, where Carson Strong earned two Mountain West Offensive Player of the Year titles and set a program record with 36 passing touchdowns in 2021. He also served as an offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach at Carleton College and coached at St. Lawrence University. His first stint as an offensive coordinator was in France, leading the Flash Football Club to the French National Championship. Bartolone's first full-time job was as the wide receivers coach at Whittier College in 2016. He learned the Air Raid offense under Mike Leach at Washington State, where he excelled as a student coach after injuries derailed his playing career. He graduated in 2016 with a Sports Management degree. He had a standout high school career at La Habra High School, winning league titles and CIF championships.

Jake Kostner (Age 26) – Central Michigan QB Coach – Salary: Unknown
• Bio: https://cmuchippewas.com/staff-directory/jake-kostner/565
• Twitter: www.twitter.com/CoachJKos
Jake Kostner, hailing from Grand Haven, Michigan, has swiftly emerged as a standout figure in the realm of football coaching. His journey has been marked by a penchant for orchestrating remarkable transformations and a firm grounding in offensive tactics. Kostner returned to the Central Michigan Football Program in 2023, this time as its Quarterbacks Coach. His initial stint in Mount Pleasant was in 2019 when he served as an Offensive Graduate Assistant under the leadership of Head Coach Jim McElwain. In 2022, Kostner took on the role of Offensive Coordinator and Quarterbacks Coach at Limestone University in Gaffney, South Carolina, working alongside Head Coach Mike Furrey. Under their guidance, Limestone accomplished a historic offensive turnaround, leaping from a winless season to an impressive 8-4 record, securing an NCAA Division II playoff spot. Notably, Limestone's offense earned the distinction of being the nation's most improved unit, averaging 34.8 points per game. Before his time at Limestone, Kostner spent two years at the University of Texas (2020-2021) as an Offensive Graduate Assistant. There, he played a vital role in the Longhorns' ascent to the upper echelons of college football's offensive rankings. Texas consistently ranked in the top 20 nationally in points per game, culminating in a remarkable 42.7 points per game in 2020, which ranked second in the program's history. Kostner's coaching prowess was evident in his role in developing Xavier Worthy, who earned Big 12 Offensive Freshman of the Year honors. In 2019, Kostner's lone year as a graduate assistant under Offensive Coordinator Charlie Frye at Central Michigan, the Chippewas orchestrated a seven-game turnaround. They transformed from a one-win team in 2018 to an 8-6 record, securing a Mid-American Conference West Division Championship. This remarkable season saw the Chippewas rank second in the MAC in passing yardage and featured two running backs surpassing 1,000 yards, a first in program history. Kostner's coaching journey began as a four-year student assistant under the tutelage of Jim Harbaugh and Jim McElwain at the University of Michigan. He also gained valuable experience during a summer internship with the Cleveland Browns in 2017. With a Bachelor of Arts degree in Sports Management from the University of Michigan (2018) and a Master of Education degree in Sport Management from the University of Texas (2023), Kostner's unique blend of experience and innovative coaching strategies positions him as a rising star in the field. His return to Central Michigan as the Quarterbacks Coach is expected to make a significant impact on the team's offensive strategies and play calling in the upcoming season.

Keith Heyward (Age 43) – Oakland Raiders Def Quality Control – Salary: Unknow
• Bio: https://www.raiders.com/team/coaches-roster/keith-heyward
• Twitter: https://twitter.com/CoachHeyward
• A seasoned coach with 18 years of collegiate coaching experience, joined the Raiders in 2023 as a defensive quality control coach. Throughout his coaching career, Heyward primarily worked on the West Coast, including stints at five Pac-12 schools where he was not only seen as a valuable coach but one of the top recruiters in the country. During his time at Oregon from 2017-2020, Heyward contributed to the Ducks' success, including two Pac-12 titles and a Rose Bowl victory. Under his guidance, Oregon's defense excelled, with 59 interceptions over four seasons and a remarkable streak of three years with at least 15 interceptions from 2017-2019. In 2016, Heyward briefly coached at Louisville, where he helped the defense rank 14th nationally in total defense. His experience also includes coaching at USC as the passing game coordinator/defensive backs coach from 2014-2015, achieving top rankings in interceptions and defensive touchdowns. Heyward began his coaching career as a graduate assistant at Oregon State, with a later stint from 2008-2011 as the defensive backs coach. He also contributed to successful seasons with the Beavers, reaching bowl games. As a player, Heyward had a standout career as a cornerback at Oregon State, earning recognition in his senior year. He went on to play professionally in the CFL, NFL Europe, and the Arena Football League. Heyward's extensive coaching experience and impressive track record make him a valuable addition to the Raiders' coaching staff.

Tyler Roehl (Age 37) – NDSU OC/Tight Ends/Fullbacks – Salary $132,000
• Bio: https://gobison.com/sports/football/roster/coaches/tyler-roehl/2184
• Twitter: https://twitter.com/Coach_Roehl
Tyler Roehl, a standout All-America running back and four-year letterman at North Dakota State University from 2004 to 2008, returned to his alma mater in 2014 as the coach for tight ends and fullbacks. In 2019, he was promoted to offensive coordinator. During his tenure, Roehl played a pivotal role in NDSU's football success, contributing to seven FCS titles and eight Missouri Valley Football Conference championships. In his first year as offensive coordinator, the Bison showcased an explosive offense, scoring 38 of their 80 touchdowns on plays of 20 or more yards, including 15 touchdowns of 50-plus yards. Under his guidance, the Bison boasted impressive offensive statistics, led by quarterback Trey Lance, who won the Walter Payton Award. They set an FCS record for only six turnovers lost and ranked among the top in scoring offense, total offense, and rushing offense. Roehl's tight ends and fullbacks group proved versatile, not only excelling in blocking but also contributing significantly to the team's receiving game. They accounted for a substantial portion of NDSU's receiving touchdowns and yardage. In 2021, the NDSU offense continued to shine, ranking second in rushing offense in FCS and averaging 280.6 rushing yards per game. They rushed for the third-highest yardage in school history while leading all Division I teams with an impressive 6.21 yards per carry. Roehl's coaching prowess is evident through his development of four FCS All-Americans, including players who later made their mark in the NFL. He also coached numerous players who earned all-conference honors. Before returning to NDSU, Roehl gained coaching experience at Moorhead High School and Concordia College. He briefly pursued an NFL career with the Seattle Seahawks in 2009 after a successful college playing career. A native of West Fargo, North Dakota, Roehl was a standout athlete even before his college days, leading his high school team to two North Dakota Class 3A football titles. Roehl is a proud NDSU alumnus, having graduated in 2009 with a bachelor's degree in physical education and later earning a master's degree in health, nutrition, and exercise science from NDSU in 2014. His coaching career has left an indelible mark on NDSU football, contributing to the program's ongoing success.

I want to throw another name out there that I think could be the right balance of what UM football needs: Demario Warren, Boise State Cornerbacks/Special Teams Coach.
Bio: https://broncosports.com/sports/football/roster/coaches/demario-warren/940

I think Warren cuts a somewhat similar figure as Bobby Hauck but without the... um, stubbornness and baggage. Special Teams Head Coaches have a good mindset on how to approach the game and I think that has been a huge reason for some of Bobby's ability to maintain a course at UM, if not get a couple good wins. Warren has been around the Big Sky, having won a conference title with the abysmal program that is Southern Utah in 2017 and he played for UC Davis. If we hired him at the end of the year, he'd be 39, the same age Bobby Hauck was when he started his first tenure. Even if things fell apart towards the end at SUU, he's respected enough that he got tapped at Boise State and being in an athletic department of that size could be very useful for 1) making sure you're not getting an arrogant hotshot fresh off his best season ever and 2) knowing how to effectively manage a program with high expectations and an impatient fan base.

Two other things that I feel are worth noting:

1) his contract at Boise State is only a little over half of Bobby Hauck's right now, so unlike a lot of guys that are getting thrown out here we'd actually be able to give him a raise.
2) UM desperately needs a splashy PR victory, and needs to be beat the Cats to punch at something to make up ground. Even if you don't like the identity politics, it could only help out UM to say we got the first black head football coach in the state.

I don't like how I feel about the current regime; they've done a lot to fix the errors of the Stitt era and it seemed like they got us out of a hole, but this is a business and we need to be a bit forward thinking if we're going to get back to the top of the Big Sky.

 

[cmtgrizzly]

Hypothetical? Hypothetical you say? There have been a lot of hypotheticals thrown around this board recently. Sounds like a bunch of BS because it seems my life may depend on what I post on this board and I am certain Bobby’s job does. Anyway with those small stakes I am pretty comfortable throwing this option out there. You may remember him from our last coaching search discussions. We had a small but proud group of lobbyists for this candidate. We lost last time but I do think the election was stolen by Bobby Hauck and Hauckamania fever. Our next coach should be (hypothetically), if the job ever becomes available, the current DC for the Purdue Boilermakers- Kevin Kane.

 

[PDXGrizzly]

Just curious...when was the last time a Griz football coach moved up or was considered for a better position with a bigger program?

I heard Pflugrad got some offers after the 2011 season (obviously before the whole poop storm went down), but he turned them down. That's probably the last time, I believe.

Jonathan Smith and Kefense Hynson.

 

[uofmman1122]

I heard Pflugrad got some offers after the 2011 season (obviously before the whole poop storm went down), but he turned them down. That's probably the last time, I believe.

Jonathan Smith and Kefense Hynson.

Smith left after 2011, that's true, but Hynson was let go by UM when Stitt was hired. He went to Norfolk State the next year.

 

[PDXGrizzly]

Jonathan Smith and Kefense Hynson.

Smith left after 2011, that's true, but Hynson was let go by UM when Stitt was hired. He went to Norfolk State the next year.

Hynson is WR coach at OSU with Smith

 

[uofmman1122]

Smith left after 2011, that's true, but Hynson was let go by UM when Stitt was hired. He went to Norfolk State the next year.

Hynson is WR coach at OSU with Smith

Yes, but that didn't happen while he was here, which I took to be the whole point of the question. As a UM coach, Kefense was not considered for a move up to a bigger program.

 

[PDXGrizzly]

Hynson is WR coach at OSU with Smith

Yes, but that didn't happen while he was here, which I took to be the whole point of the question. As a UM coach, Kefense was not considered for a move up to a bigger program.

I took it to mean “which UM coach has been successful at a higher level post Griz.” I’ll stand by Smith as the acceptable answer. Kefense gets an asterisk.

 

[uofmman1122]

Yes, but that didn't happen while he was here, which I took to be the whole point of the question. As a UM coach, Kefense was not considered for a move up to a bigger program.

I took it to mean “which UM coach has been successful at a higher level post Griz.” I’ll stand by Smith as the acceptable answer. Kefense gets an asterisk.

Yeah, both of them are definitely killing it at OSU.

 

[sdk.catfish]

Personally I would like to see Taylor Swift as coach. Probably could win as many games as Bobby and we could expand the stadium to 75 K and move up.