UM Head Coach Options - Hypothetical Speaking

[Grizzoola950$]

Seriously, let UM throw out a broad net, with no UM, MT, or regional ties attached. The idea is to find a coach who wants to coach the Griz, fervently so, whatever his reasons. In some ways this is how MSU found Vigen. I am not privy to all the fine points of hiring coaches, so bear with me. That was a matter of serendipidy, at least to a fan like me.

Again, I'm serious: Toss out an offer to all the people cited in this thread, and perhaps some more. Sort of like making cold calls. After getting feedback as to who interested and who not, interview those interested and hire the one who most fervently wants to improve this program. Yes, previous experience needs examining, but that satisfied, it boils down to the personality of the coach. Once selected, let the new coach choose his staff however he wants. IOW, keep hands off.

I think our hiring process carries too much baggage, esp. the ties to MT, UM, etc. We limit ourselves unnecessarily. All I know is MSU's process was serendipidy, taking the sixth person after others turned the job down. As to Idaho's hiring Eck, I don't know that process, but I do think age and desire for the job have to be determined after sifting through the intial casting of the net.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

I think a regional tie in terms of understanding the recruiting region is a great quality, but not a requirement. You can hire assistants and recruiting staff familiar with those areas that can bridge any gap there might be if a new head coach is not from the area. Recruiting is recruiting, as long as you wind up in front of the right kids, its pretty much the same everywhere you go. Doesn't matter if the head coach knows the hot spots or if the recruiting coordinator does, its all the same.

My gripe with purposely seeking and hiring someone with Montana ties is the AD and more so the boosters wanting someone they have an "in" with so their voice can be heard. It muddies up the water and adds a bunch of unwarranted pressure to perform. Far to many meddling boosters at UM who don't know a damn thing about football, coaching, or hiring a coach.

Yeah, I don’t think “understanding the region” is all that important, and if it is, I think it’s learnable with a pamphlet. People are basically the same everywhere.

 

[Walkon79]

No he wouldn't. He's got his sites set MUCH higher.

Doubt either of you know what Choate would or would not be interested in

Can you pay him $1M? That's what it would take for him to even consider such a move. And how would you know of my relationship with Jeff Choate?

 

[GrizRealist]

Doubt either of you know what Choate would or would not be interested in

Can you pay him $1M? That's what it would take for him to even consider such a move. And how would you know of my relationship with Jeff Choate?

You're right, a cat fan posting anonymously on a Griz message board screams credibility.

 

[Da Boyz Mom]

I think a regional tie in terms of understanding the recruiting region is a great quality, but not a requirement. You can hire assistants and recruiting staff familiar with those areas that can bridge any gap there might be if a new head coach is not from the area. Recruiting is recruiting, as long as you wind up in front of the right kids, its pretty much the same everywhere you go. Doesn't matter if the head coach knows the hot spots or if the recruiting coordinator does, its all the same.

My gripe with purposely seeking and hiring someone with Montana ties is the AD and more so the boosters wanting someone they have an "in" with so their voice can be heard. It muddies up the water and adds a bunch of unwarranted pressure to perform. Far to many meddling boosters at UM who don't know a damn thing about football, coaching, or hiring a coach.

Yeah, I don’t think “understanding the region” is all that important, and if it is, I think it’s learnable with a pamphlet. People are basically the same everywhere.

Agreed. Someone who is good at building relationships can do so anywhere.

 

[Irish$$$]

Doubt either of you know what Choate would or would not be interested in

I known Jeff and Janet for over 30 years. I am pretty sure I know him better than you think.

 

[Da Boyz Mom]

Somebody call up Mike Kramer. I'm not sure we would win any more games but at least we would get entertaining press conferences.

 

[Missoula223]

Seriously, let UM throw out a broad net, with no UM, MT, or regional ties attached. The idea is to find a coach who wants to coach the Griz, fervently so, whatever his reasons. In some ways this is how MSU found Vigen. I am not privy to all the fine points of hiring coaches, so bear with me. That was a matter of serendipidy, at least to a fan like me.

Again, I'm serious: Toss out an offer to all the people cited in this thread, and perhaps some more. Sort of like making cold calls. After getting feedback as to who interested and who not, interview those interested and hire the one who most fervently wants to improve this program. Yes, previous experience needs examining, but that satisfied, it boils down to the personality of the coach. Once selected, let the new coach choose his staff however he wants. IOW, keep hands off.

I think our hiring process carries too much baggage, esp. the ties to MT, UM, etc. We limit ourselves unnecessarily. All I know is MSU's process was serendipidy, taking the sixth person after others turned the job down. As to Idaho's hiring Eck, I don't know that process, but I do think age and desire for the job have to be determined after sifting through the intial casting of the net.

I mean yeah this is kind of how it’s done honestly. ADs reach for guys they want through a vetting process. Unless it’s an internal hire or no brained, it’s a group of usually 15-30 people. So say you get 15 legit candidates that are both qualified and interested. You interview all of them, and feel like 8 ish do a good job in the interview process. If 1 is a no brainer, you go with them, but more often than not coaches are going to interview in a similar manner. They all say the same things and will have a likeable personality because they want the job. Then what? What is the next thing you’re looking for? You said its personality of the coach, but again most qualified candidates that want the job are going to have a charismatic personality (obviously outliers exist).

So out of the, for example, 8 people that you like, what do you look at next? You’ve already determined that those people have had success and are qualified for the position based on whatever your determining factors may be, and they all want the job. As an AD you have no choice but to listen to advisors and other people through a vetting process. One way an AD protects themselves by doing that is regional ties to the area.

I mentioned earlier in the thread. The HC at Davidson has done a terrific job over there, but has been on the east coast his whole life. You don’t know the staff he’s going to hire, so you can’t say that he can make up for his lack of ties to the staff he brings in. Are you comfortable bringing him in? Over someone with equal qualifications that is familiar to Montana/pacific northwest? Not trying to be a jerk, I’m genuinely asking. These are the things ADs have to dig through to try and hire the best coach they can.

 

[rgrizfan]

Bobby might want to read this...#8 and#9 are golden!

https://datascience.virginia.edu/news/ten-simple-rules-good-leadership

 

[CDAGRIZ]

Yeah, I don’t think “understanding the region” is all that important, and if it is, I think it’s learnable with a pamphlet. People are basically the same everywhere.

Agreed. Someone who is good at building relationships can do so anywhere.

But, Mommmmm! How would some new coach know how important I am if he's some damn outsider?
I swear, some people act like Montana is the most unique place in the world and you have to have ties to it to understand it. It's not like people go to Montana and just forget how the world works. They don't start walking on their hands and driving everywhere in reverse. I think any "outsider" could probably figure it out.

 

[emilsson_2000]

I too think that the Hauck era at Montana is coming to an end after this season, and in my opinion there is only one person for the job....the greatest Grizzly that has ever played for Montana....SUPER DAVE DICKENSON!!!

Who could argue with that? The guy is a winner...the guy is a coach...the guy is the best we have ever had. I don't know how much he is making in Calgary, but maybe he has enough to come back to his home state, his alma mater...and make Montana relevant again!

Who's with me!!!???? LET'S GO! SUPER DAVE FOR THE W!!! Make it happen UM!

 

[Missoula223]

Agreed. Someone who is good at building relationships can do so anywhere.

But, Mommmmm! How would some new coach know how important I am if he's some damn outsider?
I swear, some people act like Montana is the most unique place in the world and you have to have ties to it to understand it. It's not like people go to Montana and just forget how the world works. They don't start walking on their hands and driving everywhere in reverse. I think any "outsider" could probably figure it out.

Man I don’t disagree with what you are saying, but you don’t think relationships that are built with high school coaches influence recruiting? If I’m a HS coach in LA, or Seattle, or Montana, and I go way back with a coach at Montana, I wouldn’t push a kid to go to that school? As opposed to a coach I’ve never met?

Again, not vying for a Montana made guy through and through. A lot of the coaches I listed weren’t directly tied to Montana. But do you not think knowing coaches in recruiting hot beds provides value? I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

But, Mommmmm! How would some new coach know how important I am if he's some damn outsider?
I swear, some people act like Montana is the most unique place in the world and you have to have ties to it to understand it. It's not like people go to Montana and just forget how the world works. They don't start walking on their hands and driving everywhere in reverse. I think any "outsider" could probably figure it out.

Man I don’t disagree with what you are saying, but you don’t think relationships that are built with high school coaches influence recruiting? If I’m a HS coach in LA, or Seattle, or Montana, and I go way back with a coach at Montana, I wouldn’t push a kid to go to that school? As opposed to a coach I’ve never met?

Again, not vying for a Montana made guy through and through. A lot of the coaches I listed weren’t directly tied to Montana. But do you not think knowing coaches in recruiting hot beds provides value? I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.

Yes, it has historically made a difference in local recruiting. What I'm saying is I would hope any DI HC has the charisma to build relationships with coaches. "Hey coach, it's Missoula 223, the new coach of the Griz. I just want to introduce myself. I know you had a great relationship with our program, and I really want that to continue. Call me any time you want to talk about any of your players' futures. Good luck this season. I'll be following your team's progress." Then, follow up. Texts after games, follow in socials, etc.

Further, what if this hypothetical dude had longstanding relationships in places where we don't currently get players? What if it was Louisiana or something? Just spitballing. I would like to increase the number of our recruiting hotbeds, not keep it the same.

 

[GrizRealist]

Agreed. Someone who is good at building relationships can do so anywhere.

But, Mommmmm! How would some new coach know how important I am if he's some damn outsider?
I swear, some people act like Montana is the most unique place in the world and you have to have ties to it to understand it. It's not like people go to Montana and just forget how the world works. They don't start walking on their hands and driving everywhere in reverse. I think any "outsider" could probably figure it out.

This is part of my fear with kicking the can down the road by hiring a "Montana guy." There is a certain contingent of people/boosters/fans who think they are pretty important and entitled to certain things with the head football coach. If an outsider is hired, those people, at least in the beginning are no more well known to a new coach than the guy sitting at the end of the bar in Mo Club, and they don't like that. This is part of the reason this same contingent is fighting so hard on Hauck's behalf. They have his ear, he goes to their lake houses and shares a beer with them in their box after home games. He makes them feel special which ultimately clouds their ability to see the unprepared disaster that he is putting on the field every Saturday. Its too personal for this group, and that has them dying on the hill that Hauck has the program on an upward trajectory, when in fact the current team is teetering on being a flat out bad football team.

Ok, come at me Haucksters.

 

[PDXGrizzly]

I too think that the Hauck era at Montana is coming to an end after this season, and in my opinion there is only one person for the job....the greatest Grizzly that has ever played for Montana....SUPER DAVE DICKENSON!!!

Who could argue with that? The guy is a winner...the guy is a coach...the guy is the best we have ever had. I don't know how much he is making in Calgary, but maybe he has enough to come back to his home state, his alma mater...and make Montana relevant again!

Who's with me!!!???? LET'S GO! SUPER DAVE FOR THE W!!! Make it happen UM!

No. For many reasons. Main ones is that he hasn’t recruited in the college sphere, CFL is a different kind of football, he has not ever really shown interest in the past, and (most importantly) we should not Scott Frost him. Remember the beloved Scott Frost returning to Nebraska? What is his name and reputation now? Let’s not run the risk of tarnishing SDaves reputation. Hauck already rusted his out.

Someone mentioned that this still smacks of the “good ol glory days” type of hire. We need new. Someone non-Montana affiliated.

 

[Missoula223]

Man I don’t disagree with what you are saying, but you don’t think relationships that are built with high school coaches influence recruiting? If I’m a HS coach in LA, or Seattle, or Montana, and I go way back with a coach at Montana, I wouldn’t push a kid to go to that school? As opposed to a coach I’ve never met?

Again, not vying for a Montana made guy through and through. A lot of the coaches I listed weren’t directly tied to Montana. But do you not think knowing coaches in recruiting hot beds provides value? I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.

Yes, it has historically made a difference in local recruiting. What I'm saying is I would hope any DI HC has the charisma to build relationships with coaches. "Hey coach, it's Missoula 223, the new coach of the Griz. I just want to introduce myself. I know you had a great relationship with our program, and I really want that to continue. Call me any time you want to talk about any of your players' futures. Good luck this season. I'll be following your team's progress." Then, follow up. Texts after games, follow in socials, etc.

Further, what if this hypothetical dude had longstanding relationships in places where we don't currently get players? What if it was Louisiana or something? Just spitballing. I would like to increase the number of our recruiting hotbeds, not keep it the same.

Yeah we aren’t too far apart I don’t think in terms of your first paragraph obviously those relationships will need to be built and sustained over time. Will Griz nation be forgiving in the time it takes to build those relationships? HC says “it’s going to take time to get thing rolling.” Are we okay with that? (I don’t think it would or should, but I’m saying regional ties provide an advantage initially).

In terms of your second para, to me thats a whole different discussion. With Montana’s recruiting budget, I wouldn’t find that extremely valuable. Anyone who isn’t P5 typically looks at regions where their airport has direct flights. That goes from a budgeting standpoint as well as a kids likelihood to come to that school and stay at that school. From what I have found, a kid in to use your example, Louisiana is going to say coach it takes me 3 different flights to get to Missoula. How do my parents come watch my game? How am I supposed to go home on vacation? Additionally, like I said recruiting budgets aren’t what you want them to be, as frustrating as that might be. Montana doesn’t want to pay a coach to take those expensive flights down and back 2-3 times a year.

Again, I have promoted Neuheisel, so I’m not saying Montana ties are directly needed, so like I said I think were kind on the same page. I just think there’s more value to those ties than what’s on the surface.

 

[GrizRealist]

I too think that the Hauck era at Montana is coming to an end after this season, and in my opinion there is only one person for the job....the greatest Grizzly that has ever played for Montana....SUPER DAVE DICKENSON!!!

Who could argue with that? The guy is a winner...the guy is a coach...the guy is the best we have ever had. I don't know how much he is making in Calgary, but maybe he has enough to come back to his home state, his alma mater...and make Montana relevant again!

Who's with me!!!???? LET'S GO! SUPER DAVE FOR THE W!!! Make it happen UM!

No. For many reasons. Main ones is that he hasn’t recruited in the college sphere, CFL is a different kind of football, he has not ever really shown interest in the past, and (most importantly) we should not Scott Frost him. Remember the beloved Scott Frost returning to Nebraska? What is his name and reputation now? Let’s not run the risk of tarnishing SDaves reputation. Hauck already rusted his out.

Someone mentioned that this still smacks of the “good ol glory days” type of hire. We need new. Someone non-Montana affiliated.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[CDAGRIZ]

Yes, it has historically made a difference in local recruiting. What I'm saying is I would hope any DI HC has the charisma to build relationships with coaches. "Hey coach, it's Missoula 223, the new coach of the Griz. I just want to introduce myself. I know you had a great relationship with our program, and I really want that to continue. Call me any time you want to talk about any of your players' futures. Good luck this season. I'll be following your team's progress." Then, follow up. Texts after games, follow in socials, etc.

Further, what if this hypothetical dude had longstanding relationships in places where we don't currently get players? What if it was Louisiana or something? Just spitballing. I would like to increase the number of our recruiting hotbeds, not keep it the same.

Yeah we aren’t too far apart I don’t think in terms of your first paragraph obviously those relationships will need to be built and sustained over time. Will Griz nation be forgiving in the time it takes to build those relationships? HC says “it’s going to take time to get thing rolling.” Are we okay with that? (I don’t think it would or should, but I’m saying regional ties provide an advantage initially).

In terms of your second para, to me thats a whole different discussion. With Montana’s recruiting budget, I wouldn’t find that extremely valuable. Anyone who isn’t P5 typically looks at regions where their airport has direct flights. That goes from a budgeting standpoint as well as a kids likelihood to come to that school and stay at that school. From what I have found, a kid in to use your example, Louisiana is going to say coach it takes me 3 different flights to get to Missoula. How do my parents come watch my game? How am I supposed to go home on vacation? Additionally, like I said recruiting budgets aren’t what you want them to be, as frustrating as that might be. Montana doesn’t want to pay a coach to take those expensive flights down and back 2-3 times a year.

Again, I have promoted Neuheisel, so I’m not saying Montana ties are directly needed, so like I said I think were kind on the same page. I just think there’s more value to those ties than what’s on the surface.

Fair enough. I was just throwing out a state with more talent than Montana. Change it to Colorado or Texas? My point is: Montana ties can be made within weeks. I will admit that my view may be skewed because I'm not the type of person that cares where people come from if I like them.

 

[Missoula223]

Yeah we aren’t too far apart I don’t think in terms of your first paragraph obviously those relationships will need to be built and sustained over time. Will Griz nation be forgiving in the time it takes to build those relationships? HC says “it’s going to take time to get thing rolling.” Are we okay with that? (I don’t think it would or should, but I’m saying regional ties provide an advantage initially).

In terms of your second para, to me thats a whole different discussion. With Montana’s recruiting budget, I wouldn’t find that extremely valuable. Anyone who isn’t P5 typically looks at regions where their airport has direct flights. That goes from a budgeting standpoint as well as a kids likelihood to come to that school and stay at that school. From what I have found, a kid in to use your example, Louisiana is going to say coach it takes me 3 different flights to get to Missoula. How do my parents come watch my game? How am I supposed to go home on vacation? Additionally, like I said recruiting budgets aren’t what you want them to be, as frustrating as that might be. Montana doesn’t want to pay a coach to take those expensive flights down and back 2-3 times a year.

Again, I have promoted Neuheisel, so I’m not saying Montana ties are directly needed, so like I said I think were kind on the same page. I just think there’s more value to those ties than what’s on the surface.

Fair enough. I was just throwing out a state with more talent than Montana. Change it to Colorado or Texas? My point is: Montana ties can be made within weeks. I will admit that my view may be skewed because I'm not the type of person that cares where people come from if I like them.

Sounds like we have reached a consensus!

 

[Da Boyz Mom]

It isn't 2009 anymore. Montana isn't the top dog in the Big Sky anymore. Things have changed and what the university needs in a head coach has also changed. The goal should be to get the absolute best person they can, whoever that may be. Look at MSU's last two hires and how it's worked out for them vs. our last several coaches. We're getting left in the dust and it ain't pretty.

I just don't know if Haslam has the cojones to do what needs to be done.