UM Budget Cuts and Athletics...

[Umista]

I hope Engstrom moves on and a new president that has a touch of business in his/her bones takes over.

The sad thing is the BOR is way behind the curve and appears to support Royce.

Our grand kids received way more contact from MSU and two of them attended cow school. It hurts.

Yes we have spent a great sum of funds for the UM athletic dept. Now? Not so much... heading toward zero.

 

[UMGriz75]

Regardless of how you feel about him, President Engstrom is just too divisive to advance the University past these hurdles. Either himself or the board of regents needs to realize this and move on.

His effect on campus morale has been catastrophic. If he stays on, early retirements are going to begin among the senior faculty (which includes our top-notch researchers and professors) and job-hunting is going to begin in earnest. This is not going to get better. UM needs a complete change of "climate," and Engstrom is only a fog bank.

 

[Proud Griz Man]

MSU has been aggressive in degree offerings and catering to student needs. For example I know of a few people who were taking Business classes at the Missoula College part time, and now are enrolled in the MSU Business School and taking distance learning correspondence classes. UM loss, MSU gain. BTW these were UM students who were contacted and targeted by MSU to switch, but the schools shouldn't compete for students, say the Regents. Meanwhile programs that are growing and there is more demand at UM, such as PT and Pharmacy, have their enrollment capped and turn students down.

Of course the bad publicity UM received and continues to receive doesn't help, but the bottom line is the primary driver of the attendance trends has been MSU has been aggressive in using funding to target and grow the University, UM has been complacent and used funding to grow legacies. And that started well before Engstrom, but Engstrom has been slow to react to what MSU is doing (let alone innovate) and Cruzado has eaten his lunch. Which appears to make the Regents happy, the majority of which would like to see 1 State University based in Bozeman.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/making-sense/why-are-fewer-people-going-to-college/

changing demographics (online courses are flexible and do not require a long-term commitment like moving to Missoula) and a generally strong state and national economy - employers are expanding payrolls - less immediate motivation to pursue college educations

 

[Griz66]

i posted several years ago that as long as the leadership at UM stayed as it was, we would continue to see enrollment declines and lack of vision for the future. I also noted that MSU is making great strides due in large part to a President who is aggressive and has a vision for the future. I do acknowledge that part of the MSU increase is due to changing employment opportunities and there is no question that engineering is much more "popular" than Philosophy. We also really don't take into account that a good perecentage of our enrollment is with MIssoula College so if you consider that things are even bleaker. I do not lay all of this at RE's feet but he is a big part of the problem as far as I am concerned. I am encouraged that he seems to be emphasizing health related majors but that is not enough. GO GRIZ on Saturday

 

[PDXGrizzly]

RE has been a disaster since his first poor decision to blow up the football program. Good leaders find ways for organizations to be successful. Good leaders also do not blame problems on their predecessors...that was the reason for all of the problems the first two years. Now it's too late in his tenure for "George did this to us". RE has no ability to lead...PERIOD!

He did not defend his institution against "Rape Nation" claims, and instead confirmed them in the public mind by paying for an incompetent "outside" study, let the Saudi student escape scott-free, entered into a bogus DOJ agreement that he later admitted he had not read (I guarantee, George Dennison would have read it, underlined portions, and gone over it in detail with Aronosfsky), has been content with a second-tier public relations and marketing effort, and above all, fired two decent and highly competent men for no reason other than to deflect attention from himself, a despicable act which painted him at the outset as a manipulative bureaucrat who created intractable problems if they only deflected from his personal incompetence.

The most recent enrollment plunge -- it is no longer merely a "decline" -- came after the publication of "Missoula" by Krakauer, which is the biggest publicity UM has gotten in the past couple of years, a continuing echo of his first years of gross incompetence and CYA management. It could not have been worse publicity, and Engstrom's response was a tepid press release drafted by his receptionist.

He will get his $500,000 bonus for exactly the reasons that government fails where enterprise succeeds; his incompetence will be rewarded for "managing the university in difficult times," akin to Ken Lay getting the Nobel Prize for "managing Enron in the face of existential adversity." He has been hanging on only to enhance his retirement pension and to get that bonus. And when he gets it, he's gone.

The latest ad, ending with the kid break dancing on a rock on Mount Sentinel was insulting. It looked like a senior art project for the drama dance program; not a serious ad designed to promote a doctorate granting, major research institution. Aside from poor messaging, it was just simply poorly done. It looked like the rough production cut of something that should not have made it out of the editing room because it so clearly "did not work." He spent tens of thousands of dollars to obtain UM's new slogan, "Thrive!" Maybe it is just my inborn cynicism, but "thrive" is just not a "motto" that inspires or promotes. To Montana's rural community, it suggests that you have an orphan calf that needs colostrum.

Everything the man touches, "he does not get." Rather than inspired leadership, he presents, always, the face of an incredibly nice guy who really desires to please, but otherwise demonstrates no leadership skills, competence in anything in particular, and always seems to be more interested in offering excuses than seeking solutions.[/quote

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

I, for one, have stopped giving a significant annual contribution to the University since the football fiasco. I will start to give again when the change is made at the top.

The University of Montana deserves better!

Hey, I get why you are ranting about all of this sh*t. But at the end of the day, what you need to seriously realize is that Waded Cruzado is being given a $500K bonus to hopefully retain her at Montana State University so she doesn't get hired away. She has grown the enrollment substantially at MSU while the enrollment at UM has declined. The MT U BOR has to afford your leader RE the ability to gain the same thing, up to the regents.

I think the implication is that Cruzado deserves her bonus while Rolls Royce deserves nothing. The fact that the BOR is even considering giving RE anything more than a peanut is a gross waste of taxpayer dollars and perpetuates the illusion that he is doing a good job.

 

[first11]

UM system ranks on bottom for salaries for top admins...until that changes better get used to 2nd stronger talents. MSU has a great one and she will get courted soon by others wanting her expertise.

Salary matrix for virtually all others likewise is not on par either.

Our university system needs to attract competent folks, until then we get what we pay for.

 

[UMGriz75]

UM system ranks on bottom for salaries for top admins...until that changes better get used to 2nd stronger talents. MSU has a great one and she will get courted soon by others wanting her expertise.

Salary matrix for virtually all others likewise is not on par either.

Our university system needs to attract competent folks, until then we get what we pay for.

Actually, for the Missoula campus, this is not entirely true. I am amazed at how many colleagues have all these credentials, and choose to teach at the UM campus, or return to the UM campus, simply because they want to live here and raise their kids here. One of them, at the business school, quantified it for me. He had done a calculation, substituting dollar values for lifestyle benefits, as well as the Cost of Living in Missoula compared to his comparable job at Cornell. By accepting a technical pay cut, he felt he had enhanced his life value by 20%; the cost-of-living adjustment alone made the lower salary comparable to the higher salary at Cornell.

For administrators this is somewhat different because of the explosion of administrators and administrator salaries which has long out-paced faculty increases.

 

[get'em_griz]

UM doesn't market at all. AT ALL. UM has a great business school and great science programs, yet the UM doesn't actively advertise those programs.

Exactly, we choose to show commercials with our hippie/cowgirl anthropolgy proffesor every commercial. Watch the vast difference in number of MSU vs UM commercials during the game this week. I cannot describe my disgust in Haslem well enough over the internet...without punching him in the face and posting the video.... He is such a tool. What will it take to get rid of that guy??? I mean really what will be the trigger point? If these numbers dont do it what will? Hes going to have to punch a def/blind/gay/black/muslim woman in the face mid prayer to get fired at this point!!!

:wtf:
What does Haslem have to do with enrollment and marketing academics?

 

[grizpack]

UM doesn't market at all. AT ALL. UM has a great business school and great science programs, yet the UM doesn't actively advertise those programs.

Exactly, we choose to show commercials with our hippie/cowgirl anthropolgy proffesor every commercial. Watch the vast difference in number of MSU vs UM commercials during the game this week. I cannot describe my disgust in Haslem well enough over the internet...without punching him in the face and posting the video.... He is such a tool. What will it take to get rid of that guy??? I mean really what will be the trigger point? If these numbers dont do it what will? Hes going to have to punch a def/blind/gay/black/muslim woman in the face mid prayer to get fired at this point!!!

:wtf:
What does Haslem have to do with enrollment and marketing academics?

No shit! You do realize that Kent Haslam has absolutely nothing to do with any of UM's marketing, MSU's marketing, what commercials are shown during a broadcast, or UM's enrollment, right??? Wait... That's a dumb question. You obviously don't....

Just a little research helps.

 

[PlayerRep]

The MT U BOR has to afford your leader RE the ability to gain the same thing, up to the regents.

He's had over five years. The enrollment declines and budget cuts are getting worse rather than better. How long does a leader get to wreck an institution before someone has to say "stop?"

It is perhaps ironic that sports provides a better model for that than academics.

I am not a Royce Engstrom supporter but the cuts must be done. Part of the enrollment decline is related to the Frenchtown and Bonner Plants closing. When that happened money was available for laid off workers to go to school and many of those workers family members also found ways to go to school. So for a short period there was an influx of those students. Those students moving on explains part of the decline but not the entire decline. Some can be explained by declines in similar schools around the country. Recruiting to the University of Montana does not seem to be getting to the potential students (my kids have had other schools, some big, reach out to them but not the University of Montana). The press the community as a whole is getting is not helping also.

The impact on UM enrollment of the Frenchtown/Bonner plant closings were a drop in the bucket.

 

[grzz]

Regardless of how you feel about him, President Engstrom is just too divisive to advance the University past these hurdles. Either himself or the board of regents needs to realize this and move on.

His effect on campus morale has been catastrophic. If he stays on, early retirements are going to begin among the senior faculty (which includes our top-notch researchers and professors) and job-hunting is going to begin in earnest. This is not going to get better. UM needs a complete change of "climate," and Engstrom is only a fog bank.

This is completely accurate. I used to work at UM, still have many friends and former colleagues there. Morale is bad. I can't imagine what the reaction will be if he gets $500K in deferred compensation at the same time they are cutting so many jobs.

I had heard a rumor from someone unrelated to UM that the regents were considering not renewing his contract at the next optional point, but that must not be true.

 

[blackfoot griz]

The MT U BOR has to afford your leader RE the ability to gain the same thing, up to the regents.

He's had over five years. The enrollment declines and budget cuts are getting worse rather than better. How long does a leader get to wreck an institution before someone has to say "stop?"

It is perhaps ironic that sports provides a better model for that than academics.

I am not a Royce Engstrom supporter but the cuts must be done. Part of the enrollment decline is related to the Frenchtown and Bonner Plants closing. When that happened money was available for laid off workers to go to school and many of those workers family members also found ways to go to school. So for a short period there was an influx of those students. Those students moving on explains part of the decline but not the entire decline. Some can be explained by declines in similar schools around the country. Recruiting to the University of Montana does not seem to be getting to the potential students (my kids have had other schools, some big, reach out to them but not the University of Montana). The press the community as a whole is getting is not helping also.

The impact on UM enrollment of the Frenchtown/Bonner plant closings were a drop in the bucket.

I respectively disagree. At least for the immediate Missoula area, what Industry has replaced the wood products industry in terms of employee pay? Direct TV? I don't think so. What replacement industry has pumped as much tax revenue into the local area as the aforementioned? Certainly not replaced by generous lawyers.

 

[Hoof Hearted]

Seems like I remember a slogan "it's the economy stupid" in a relatively recent presidential campaign. The degree program UM offers are not as marketable in today's economy as those from MSU. The news is full every day about student loan debt and the jobs market for college graduates. If UM wants to recruit new students, they should offer the kind of degrees in demand in this kind of job market.

 

[statler & waldorf]

Whatever happened to the 'just move on' crowd? RE was less of a POS back then? His decisions were less apocalyptic then? RE apologists were FOS then, and even more so now. The BOR is complicit in the current state of our University. Between Schweitzer, Bullock, and that goddamned State Senate confirming this incompetent BOR, its a wonder the entire University System hasn't imploded. Engstrom has to go.
He deserves the same Engstrom justice he imposed on Pflu/O'Day, the football program in general, and the University generally following the hyped up 'rape crisis' and subsequent DOJ/DOE inquisition. Sorry if I left anything out.

 

[PlayerRep]

He's had over five years. The enrollment declines and budget cuts are getting worse rather than better. How long does a leader get to wreck an institution before someone has to say "stop?"

It is perhaps ironic that sports provides a better model for that than academics.

I am not a Royce Engstrom supporter but the cuts must be done. Part of the enrollment decline is related to the Frenchtown and Bonner Plants closing. When that happened money was available for laid off workers to go to school and many of those workers family members also found ways to go to school. So for a short period there was an influx of those students. Those students moving on explains part of the decline but not the entire decline. Some can be explained by declines in similar schools around the country. Recruiting to the University of Montana does not seem to be getting to the potential students (my kids have had other schools, some big, reach out to them but not the University of Montana). The press the community as a whole is getting is not helping also.

The impact on UM enrollment of the Frenchtown/Bonner plant closings were a drop in the bucket.

I respectively disagree. At least for the immediate Missoula area, what Industry has replaced the wood products industry in terms of employee pay? Direct TV? I don't think so. What replacement industry has pumped as much tax revenue into the local area as the aforementioned? Certainly not replaced by generous lawyers.

The subject is enrollment at UM, not economy. If you want to discuss economy, start a different thread in the Political forum.

 

[BadlandsGrizFan]

UM doesn't market at all. AT ALL. UM has a great business school and great science programs, yet the UM doesn't actively advertise those programs.

Exactly, we choose to show commercials with our hippie/cowgirl anthropolgy proffesor every commercial. Watch the vast difference in number of MSU vs UM commercials during the game this week. I cannot describe my disgust in Haslem well enough over the internet...without punching him in the face and posting the video.... He is such a tool. What will it take to get rid of that guy??? I mean really what will be the trigger point? If these numbers dont do it what will? Hes going to have to punch a def/blind/gay/black/muslim woman in the face mid prayer to get fired at this point!!!

:wtf:
What does Haslem have to do with enrollment and marketing academics?

No shit! You do realize that Kent Haslam has absolutely nothing to do with any of UM's marketing, MSU's marketing, what commercials are shown during a broadcast, or UM's enrollment, right??? Wait... That's a dumb question. You obviously don't....

Just a little research helps.

Haha that was my bad..I meant Engstrom..I like Haslem a lot...I was reading a Haslem quote while typing my response....my bad my bad.

 

[UMGriz75]

If the primary reason people are going to MSU instead of UM is because of the Engineering School and jobs-based degrees, how would that explain why the MSU business school enrollment is up, while the UM business school enrollment is down?

Back when the Regents realized that Montana could not really afford seven campuses, they resolved to consolidate campuses and to rigorously resist duplication of key programs.

For instance, "engineering" had been divided among the lead campuses. MSU got electrical, UM got mechanical, and Tech got mining.

Engineering was consolidated at MSU. UM got business and health sciences. Billings got a glorified tech school.

As political influences shifted, Billings got an upgrade to what had been its secretarial school into a business school. Then MSU was allowed to compete for the WWAMI program, which elevated its health sciences and biochem offerings in order to serve the WWAMI program. MSU shouldn't have even been allowed to compete for it, but did, UM (and Missoula) was much better qualified, but was blindsided by the fact that the Regents had allowed MSU to go for it. Missoula is a genuine medical center, and Bozeman is not. UM's health sciences offerings were far better at that time. Most of Montana's medical school applicants to UW were UM graduates.

Then MSU decided it needed a Business School. Totally against the Regent's policy and common sense, but a donor stepped with a very large donation, and MSU had a Business School that had theretofore been the key distinction between the campuses.

There has long been two sets of rules as to what the campuses have been allowed to offer, and much of that is derived from legislative politics as Regent policy. UM has, most of the time, "been above the fray," and has suffered accordingly.

So what explains why MSU business school enrollment is up? The fact that they have one at all, and that if not, those would have been UM students. Indeed, that single fact is why UM is still not the lead institution in terms of enrollment.

About the last thing that affect enrollment that MSU hasn't been able to wrestle away is the one thing that is still merit-based, instead of politically motivated -- sports. That really grinds on them ...

 

[Spanky]

Pretty sad to watch Engstrom and the other guy on the 5 o'clock news. Talk about negative marketing and image!