UMGriz75 said:Bradshaw is sitting on the bench about as much as Martin his sophomore year at UW. My point is that Riley will likely not get the "chance" that Martin did to overcome that. I doubt that Martin would have if he had remained in that program. It's the breaks of the game.casewinter13 said:Absolutely..Martin's a great example. Holding up Bradshaw and Martin is not. That is allUMGriz75 said:Martin is a very good example of how "experience" can reveal talent. That's why "sport systems" to be truly effective at developing athletic talent, must equalize "experience" in order to distinguish "talent."casewinter13 said:Martin Breunig UM > Martin Breunig UW... some skills building and certainly experience combined.
EverettGriz said:Come tourney time, the starters are not going to be able to play effectively for high minutes game after game.
In the 2012 BSC title game, the Griz did not sub at all in the second half until under a minute was left, and Tinks made wholesale substitutions so that the starters could get recognized by the crowd. The starters effectively played the entire second half. This team is certainly deeper than that one, though, and I think the rotation has been fine.
PlayerRep said:EverettGriz said:Come tourney time, the starters are not going to be able to play effectively for high minutes game after game.
In the 2012 BSC title game, the Griz did not sub at all in the second half until under a minute was left, and Tinks made wholesale substitutions so that the starters could get recognized by the crowd. The starters effectively played the entire second half. This team is certainly deeper than that one, though, and I think the rotation has been fine.
In 2012, all teams didn't go to the conference tourney. UM played only 1 game before the championship game. It will take more games to win this year. At least 3 days in a row. 4 in 5 days if not a top 4 seed. Do some of you not even think before you post?
Potomac Griz said:With Dunn getting more and more minutes I think they'll be good fine. 3 games in 3 days isn't all that uncommon. It happens a lot in conference tournaments and in early-season tournaments. Wright especially has been asked to play a ton of minutes every game in conference and shows no sign of getting tired out there. Plus with all the breaks and timeouts (as MouseGriz pointed out) it gives all of the players a quick rest.
Look back to the 2007-2008 season when the Griz played in a tournament early in the season. 3 games in 3 days (very common for early season tournaments). The Griz mostly only used an 8 man rotation with a 9th player getting very limited minutes. They put up a good fight against #9 ranked Washington State, beat Air Force (who was 7-1 at the time) and then beat Mississippi Valley State.
And besides, it's not like the other Big Sky teams won't be dealing with the same thing
For anyone that thinks the Griz players will get too tired out there with 3 games in 3 days, what changes do you suggest be made to the rotation?
EverettGriz said:Gaining experience for bench players is what the noncom schedule is for. TDC needs to play his best 8 guys now, six of them the vast majority of the time. Few teams, even top 25 teams, go more than 7 or 8 deep this time of year.
EverettGriz said:Gaining experience for bench players is what the noncom schedule is for. TDC needs to play his best 8 guys now, six of them the vast majority of the time. Few teams, even top 25 teams, go more than 7 or 8 deep this time of year.
Mousegriz said:EverettGriz said:Gaining experience for bench players is what the noncom schedule is for. TDC needs to play his best 8 guys now, six of them the vast majority of the time. Few teams, even top 25 teams, go more than 7 or 8 deep this time of year.
Agreed. We're not going to win the Big Sky Tourney relying on DeJong, Boehning and Bradshaw getting minutes so the best 5 or 6 don't get too tired. Kids don't get that worn out playing three 40 minute games in three nights with all the stoppages and being hopefully in top physical condition.
Every top player on every HS and college basketball team lives for tourney time.....three nights in a row, three games in a row, for a championship they've dreamed of their whole life! 40 minute games aren't marathon races!
Did PR ever play the game?
PlayerRep said:Mousegriz said:EverettGriz said:Gaining experience for bench players is what the noncom schedule is for. TDC needs to play his best 8 guys now, six of them the vast majority of the time. Few teams, even top 25 teams, go more than 7 or 8 deep this time of year.
Agreed. We're not going to win the Big Sky Tourney relying on DeJong, Boehning and Bradshaw getting minutes so the best 5 or 6 don't get too tired. Kids don't get that worn out playing three 40 minute games in three nights with all the stoppages and being hopefully in top physical condition.
Every top player on every HS and college basketball team lives for tourney time.....three nights in a row, three games in a row, for a championship they've dreamed of their whole life! 40 minute games aren't marathon races!
Did PR ever play the game?
I played 2 sports in college. How about you? Or, tell us about high school career. Did you ever get off the bench? Some players get tired playing one game for 40 minutes. Most players wear down playing 3 games in 3 successive days, usually less than say 55 hours. Injuries also happen. Do does foul trouble. No one is suggesting "relying" on DeJong, B and B. However, good minutes from some of them would be helpful. Hopefully, Dunn will continue to get bigger minutes. That is a big help.
PlayerRep said:EverettGriz said:Gaining experience for bench players is what the noncom schedule is for. TDC needs to play his best 8 guys now, six of them the vast majority of the time. Few teams, even top 25 teams, go more than 7 or 8 deep this time of year.
Nope, just not true. Experience often continues throughout the season. Many teams play more than 7 or 8 players. It depends on the quality of the depth and how close games are. Yes, some teams play relatively few players at this time of the season.
Villanova has 8 players averaging over 20 minutes. No one averages 32.
Maryland has 7 over 15 and 2 just under 10. No one over 32.
Okla has 9 over 8, with several at 33.
Iowa has 10 over 9.8 and none over 30.
Xavier has 9 over 9.7 and none over 30.3 and only 2 over 25.6.
PlayerRep said:EverettGriz said:Gaining experience for bench players is what the noncom schedule is for. TDC needs to play his best 8 guys now, six of them the vast majority of the time. Few teams, even top 25 teams, go more than 7 or 8 deep this time of year.
Nope, just not true. Experience often continues throughout the season. Many teams play more than 7 or 8 players. It depends on the quality of the depth and how close games are. Yes, some teams play relatively few players at this time of the season.
Villanova has 8 players averaging over 20 minutes. No one averages 32.
Maryland has 7 over 15 and 2 just under 10. No one over 32.
Okla has 9 over 8, with several at 33.
Iowa has 10 over 9.8 and none over 30.
Xavier has 9 over 9.7 and none over 30.3 and only 2 over 25.6.
PlayerRep said:EverettGriz said:Gaining experience for bench players is what the noncom schedule is for. TDC needs to play his best 8 guys now, six of them the vast majority of the time. Few teams, even top 25 teams, go more than 7 or 8 deep this time of year.
Nope, just not true. Experience often continues throughout the season. Many teams play more than 7 or 8 players. It depends on the quality of the depth and how close games are. Yes, some teams play relatively few players at this time of the season.
Villanova has 8 players averaging over 20 minutes. No one averages 32.
Maryland has 7 over 15 and 2 just under 10. No one over 32.
Okla has 9 over 8, with several at 33.
Iowa has 10 over 9.8 and none over 30.
Xavier has 9 over 9.7 and none over 30.3 and only 2 over 25.6.
PlayerRep said:Villanova has 8 players averaging over 20 minutes. No one averages 32.
PlayerRep said:Maryland has 7 over 15 and 2 just under 10. No one over 32.
PlayerRep said:Okla has 9 over 8, with several at 33.
PlayerRep said:Iowa has 10 over 9.8 and none over 30.
PlayerRep said:Xavier has 9 over 9.7 and none over 30.3 and only 2 over 25.6.
Mousegriz said:PlayerRep said:Mousegriz said:EverettGriz said:Gaining experience for bench players is what the noncom schedule is for. TDC needs to play his best 8 guys now, six of them the vast majority of the time. Few teams, even top 25 teams, go more than 7 or 8 deep this time of year.
Agreed. We're not going to win the Big Sky Tourney relying on DeJong, Boehning and Bradshaw getting minutes so the best 5 or 6 don't get too tired. Kids don't get that worn out playing three 40 minute games in three nights with all the stoppages and being hopefully in top physical condition.
Every top player on every HS and college basketball team lives for tourney time.....three nights in a row, three games in a row, for a championship they've dreamed of their whole life! 40 minute games aren't marathon races!
Did PR ever play the game?
I played 2 sports in college. How about you? Or, tell us about high school career. Did you ever get off the bench? Some players get tired playing one game for 40 minutes. Most players wear down playing 3 games in 3 successive days, usually less than say 55 hours. Injuries also happen. Do does foul trouble. No one is suggesting "relying" on DeJong, B and B. However, good minutes from some of them would be helpful. Hopefully, Dunn will continue to get bigger minutes. That is a big help.
I just say watch some meaningful 3 or 4 day bball tourneys, HS or college level, and tell me how many minutes the top 3 or 4 players on every team log in almost every game. One of your posts says, "Play starters less, player bench more." That suggests "relying" on the bench more to me.
......Second team Montana AA all state in HS and only a "Cub" (non-schollie frosh Griz) player.....once popped for 29 vs,. the Cats frosh in front of packed Adams Center. More than 20 of those in the 2nd half when I was super worn out!
Potomac Griz said:PlayerRep said:EverettGriz said:Gaining experience for bench players is what the noncom schedule is for. TDC needs to play his best 8 guys now, six of them the vast majority of the time. Few teams, even top 25 teams, go more than 7 or 8 deep this time of year.
Nope, just not true. Experience often continues throughout the season. Many teams play more than 7 or 8 players. It depends on the quality of the depth and how close games are. Yes, some teams play relatively few players at this time of the season.
Villanova has 8 players averaging over 20 minutes. No one averages 32.
Maryland has 7 over 15 and 2 just under 10. No one over 32.
Okla has 9 over 8, with several at 33.
Iowa has 10 over 9.8 and none over 30.
Xavier has 9 over 9.7 and none over 30.3 and only 2 over 25.6.
Lets look at these teams you've listed and what they've done as the season has progressed (getting into conference).
PlayerRep said:Villanova has 8 players averaging over 20 minutes. No one averages 32.
First off, Villanova has 7 players averaging over 20 minutes, not 8. They also have 2 players averaging over 31 minutes a game. Not 32, but 31 is pretty close. And that's even with them blowing out so many teams (getting a lot of inexperienced players good minutes) early in the season non-conference. The Griz and most Big Sky teams don't have that luxury where they destroy the majority of teams they face in non-conference. Look at what Villanova does in close games and you'll see they play 7 or 8 players 10+ minutes and that's it. Just like the Griz usually.
In fact now that they are in conference they have 2 players averaging above 32 mins a game, since those games are closer. They (like most teams including the Griz) have narrowed their rotation down to 8 players getting good minutes with 3 getting 30+ a game.
PlayerRep said:Maryland has 7 over 15 and 2 just under 10. No one over 32.
Same thing...they blow out a ton of teams in non-conference, get a bunch of guys extra minutes and then once conference starts they narrow it down to a 7 or 8 man rotation. In fact they now have 3 players with 32+ minutes per game in conference since it's tougher competition and closer games. Oh and also the Griz have 7 players with over 15 minutes a game with Dunn just under 15 to make it almost 8 (He'll certainly be above 15 soon as he continues to shake the rust off). So not that different from the Griz really.
PlayerRep said:Okla has 9 over 8, with several at 33.
They only have 5 players averaging 15 or more. The Griz have 7 and an 8th coming along soon with Dunn. You should probably let Oklahoma know they need to play their bench more to be successful They're another team that has narrowed it down to a 7 or 8 man rotation once conference started too. Now they have 7 players with 10 or more minutes and the rest are 7ish or less. They have 2 players above 35 mins a game in conference including one at 37.8 minutes.
PlayerRep said:Iowa has 10 over 9.8 and none over 30.
Very misleading there. One of them has only played in 6 games (one who averages above 9). And would ya look at that? Once they got into conference and are playing much tougher opponents and closer games more consistently they've narrowed it down to a 7 man (10+ minutes) rotation! That includes 2 over 30 minutes (including one over 32), and 2 just barely under 30 minutes a game.
PlayerRep said:Xavier has 9 over 9.7 and none over 30.3 and only 2 over 25.6.
Xavier is about the only one on your list that seems to be doing what you think the Griz should be doing. They have 9 people with 10+ minutes in conference play as well (9.7 or 10 mins, close enough).
So...to sum up....
Teams use non-conference games for getting players experience, seeing what they have, and top 20 teams get to do a LOT more of that since they are busy beating the piss out of other teams most of the time. Mid-majors like the Griz don't have the luxury of playing nearly every non-conference game at home and blowing out the opponents & playing 9 or 10 guys tons of minutes most games.
Mousegriz said:PlayerRep said:EverettGriz said:Gaining experience for bench players is what the noncom schedule is for. TDC needs to play his best 8 guys now, six of them the vast majority of the time. Few teams, even top 25 teams, go more than 7 or 8 deep this time of year.
Nope, just not true. Experience often continues throughout the season. Many teams play more than 7 or 8 players. It depends on the quality of the depth and how close games are. Yes, some teams play relatively few players at this time of the season.
Villanova has 8 players averaging over 20 minutes. No one averages 32.
Maryland has 7 over 15 and 2 just under 10. No one over 32.
Okla has 9 over 8, with several at 33.
Iowa has 10 over 9.8 and none over 30.
Xavier has 9 over 9.7 and none over 30.3 and only 2 over 25.6.
Check minutes per game in close loser out tourney games as a more representative (and interesting!) stat. Seemed like Kansas's starters got a few minutes off when they faced the Griz.