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Time to Make a Change: Why Bobby Hauck's Contract Should Not Be Extended

Skookum-Jim said:
But why would we change to a 4-3 or 4-2-5 style defense, if it was the air raid offenses like ISU and EWU that we had trouble against? The griz already had a great run stopping defense.
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4-2-5 has some arguments for it. Grandpa’s defense good luck putting linebackers on receivers. That one will get torched in our conference.
 
No we didn't--your MSU ran for @ 240 yards against us, 7.1 yards per carry and our 3-3-5 also got shredded even worse by NDSU in our playoff game in Fargo in 2022, even with O'Connel and Gubner, 453 rushing yards, 9.8 ypc. in a NDSU 49-26 win !!!. The 3-3-5 according to my friends that played college ball is the wrong scheme to use for run-heavy teams and our 2022 NDSU playoff game and our two losses to MSU prove that. And oh, by the way, although pass-happy Idaho State and Eastern threw for a lot of yards against us, we won both of those games playing the. 3-3-5. We definitely need to play better against both using the 3-3-5 !!!

Keep the 3-3-5 for them but for everyone else, quit bringing a knife 🔪 to a gun 🔫 fight and play the 4-3-4 or the 4-2-5 or we will again get shredded by the top FCS teams like NDSU and MSU.
 
billingsgriz said:
No we didn't--your MSU ran for @ 240 yards against us, 7.1 yards per carry and our 3-3-5 also got shredded even worse by NDSU in our playoff game in Fargo in 2022, even with O'Connel and Gubner, 453 rushing yards, 9.8 ypc. in a NDSU 49-26 win !!!. The 3-3-5 according to my friends that played college ball is the wrong scheme to use for run-heavy teams and our 2022 NDSU playoff game and our two losses to MSU prove that. And oh, by the way, although pass-happy Idaho State and Eastern threw for a lot of yards against us, we won both of those games playing the. 3-3-5. We definitely need to play better against both using the 3-3-5 !!!

Keep the 3-3-5 for them but for everyone else, quit bringing a knife 🔪 to a gun 🔫 fight and play the 4-3-4 or the 4-2-5 or we will again get shredded by the top FCS teams like NDSU and MSU.
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4-3-4 (Grandpa’s defense)gets shredded against spread offenses because it pulls linebackers into coverage on wide receivers. That is always a mismatch offensive play callers take advantage of when they have a spread offense going against a 4-3-4 defense. The 5 at the end in the 4-2-5 and 3-3-5 means 5 defensive backs. That is the key distinction on why these 2 defenses work against spread offenses but the 4-3-4 does not. 4-3-4 changes a defensive back to a linebacker from the 4-2-5. ISU and EWU aren’t the only spread teams in the conference. MSU for example also uses the spread offense. Any offense with 11 personnel or at least 3 wide receivers is considered spread. Since there are at least 3 wide receivers, linebackers will be covering at least one of them in a 4-3-4 or any 4 defensive back alignment. 4-2-5 is the answer for stronger run defense while not sacrificing our pass defense against the offenses we typically face.
 
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billingsgriz said:
With all due respect 406, I disagree.

1. Yes Coach Hauck lost more games against MSU in UM history. The problem with that analysis is he has also coached the most games against MSU in UM history.

2. Yes, MSU is recruiting quality Montana kids, but so are we--use Billings as an example.. Merek Fisher, a 6-6, 230 lb TE that is fast--former sprinter--and big and the former OT can both block and catch.

William Snell is a 6-4 WR, All State Class A WR and DB that is also a Class A state sprint champion. He grew up in a MSU family, but he chose UM over MSU because he liked our family culture exuded by our staff and team better. William is also Crow/Gros Ventre-Assiniboine. How many Native kids 🤔 does MSU have on its roster ?

Though unintentional, I think we need to quit complaining about getting outrecruited in Montana because, in this case, we are unintentionally denigrating our 9 talented Montana kids coming to UM in this year's class--they ain't chopped liver, and GRIZ RC Justin Green and staff recruit Montana hard !!!

3. I agree with you on our base defense--the 3-3-5 was intended to defend against legendary GRIZ HC Don Read's Air Bear and legendary Texas Tech and WAZZU HC Mike Leach's Air Raid offense 😳 and with maybe the exception of Eastern, no one in The Big Sky or MVFC for that matter uses those offenses. I know Coach Hauck is loyal to his old boss retired San Diego State HC Rocky Long and the 3-3-5 and SDSU and UM have won a lot of games playing it, but SDSU didn't win a FBS NC using it and I don't think we will win a FCS NC either plus I think the 3-3-5 results in more injuries to our secondary as some of our smallest defenders are required repeatedly to tackle some of our opponent's bigger, stronger, faster offensive skill guys and the result--more injuries to our secondary.

We are almost at the summit--we don't need another Pat Kennedy, Brian Holsinger, Bob Stitt rebuild. Fix our defense with a 4-3-4 or a 4-2-5 base defense, save the 3-3-5 for the few remaining Air Bear/Air Raid offenses, and I think we will summit the mountain in the next year or two or three.

Go GRIZ. !!!
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I’m with you Billings and ask a question I would love everybody’s perspective on. Are the real or perceived challenges with the football program a result of the larger issues facing UM, e.g. enrollment numbers, fundraising, limited academic offerings compared to like schools? Five years from now, what does success look like through the eyes of Bodnar and Haslam? Their strategy and their goals directly impact the actions of how Mr Hauck runs his program as a whole.
 
Oh goody! Look another thread about getting rid of Bobby! Now if we could only have more discussion about the Griz moving up to play real football with the big kids!
 
5280Griz said:
4-3-4 (Grandpa’s defense)gets shredded against spread offenses because it pulls linebackers into coverage on wide receivers. That is always a mismatch offensive play callers take advantage of when they have a spread offense going against a 4-3-4 defense. The 5 at the end in the 4-2-5 and 3-3-5 means 5 defensive backs. That is the key distinction on why these 2 defenses work against spread offenses but the 4-3-4 does not. 4-3-4 changes a defensive back to a linebacker from the 4-2-5. ISU and EWU aren’t the only spread teams in the conference. MSU for example also uses the spread offense. Any offense with 11 personnel or at least 3 wide receivers is considered spread. Since there are at least 3 wide receivers, linebackers will be covering at least one of them in a 4-3-4 or any 4 defensive back alignment. 4-2-5 is the answer for stronger run defense while not sacrificing our pass defense against the offenses we typically face.
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If you have smaller lbers with speed aka somewhere around 200-220 pound range, it doesn't matter. If you have lbers that are slow and bigger it wont work... just need lber/safety hybrid types. Would still be better than the 3 3 5.

No matter what you always need the right type of players for any scheme, which we can't seem to get with the 3 3 5. Maybe if the griz were an fbs team that had millions to shell out for the kind of DTs we need, could work.
 
Griz Addict said:
If you have smaller lbers with speed aka somewhere around 200-220 pound range, it doesn't matter. If you have lbers that are slow and bigger it wont work... just need lber/safety hybrid types. Would still be better than the 3 3 5.

No matter what you always need the right type of players for any scheme, which we can't seem to get with the 3 3 5. Maybe if the griz were an fbs team that had millions to shell out for the kind of DTs we need, could work.
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I think the 4-2-5 is the best option. It won’t be as reliant on a dominant nose tackle as the 3-3-5. I disagree with you and think the 3-3-5 is better overall for our conference than 4-3. Having 200-220 pound linebackers is going to cause other issues against the run. I think we might be in agreement that the 4-2-5 would be the best option.
 
701Grizfan said:
I’m with you Billings and ask a question I would love everybody’s perspective on. Are the real or perceived challenges with the football program a result of the larger issues facing UM, e.g. enrollment numbers, fundraising, limited academic offerings compared to like schools? Five years from now, what does success look like through the eyes of Bodnar and Haslam? Their strategy and their goals directly impact the actions of how Mr Hauck runs his program as a whole.
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No, they are not the result of those things to any significant extent, although the athletic department has to push it to keep the budget growing. And, there are not real out of the ordinary challenges for the football program. The program is close to the top of the world, but not there yet and, of course, has to start being the Cats more. The biggest challenge is trying to scrape together enough NIL money to keep and attract top players.
 
5280Griz said:
I think the 4-2-5 is the best option. It won’t be as reliant on a dominant nose tackle as the 3-3-5. I disagree with you and think the 3-3-5 is better overall for our conference than 4-3. Having 200-220 pound linebackers is going to cause other issues against the run. I think we might be in agreement that the 4-2-5 would be the best option.
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I do agree that 4-2-5 is the best option. Was just saying 4-3 could work with the right pieces.
 
billingsgriz said:
Minn., I normally work 1-11 PM as a part-time counselor at The Ted Lechner Regional Youth Service's Center ( Yellowstone County, State of Montana) in Billings--I am fortunate to have tonight off but tomorrow at this time, next Friday and Saturday, and most Friday and Saturdays unless I am in Missoula @ WA-GRIZ and the MO Club, that's where I will be. As a result, I have not attended a Billings high-school football game in years. I do have friends and acquaintenances and some of the Hauck family here in Billings that have seen Bobby and other members of his staff at games as well as some local reporters reporting on the presence of Bobby, Justin or other GRIZ coaches.at Billings and/or nearby Laurel high-school games. Please realize, when they're here it's normally early season August high-school games before our season has started or during our bye weeks.

As an aside, I normally don't work on Mondays but this Monday, 1/5, I will be at the center, working from 1-11. I really, really hope that MSU doesn't win Monday--they probably will, and that I watch or listen to as little of that game as humanely possible !!!

Go Red Birds : ) !!!
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Thank you for the work you do with the youth of this area.
Go Griz.
GO REDBIRDS!!!
 
5280Griz said:
I think the 4-2-5 is the best option. It won’t be as reliant on a dominant nose tackle as the 3-3-5. I disagree with you and think the 3-3-5 is better overall for our conference than 4-3. Having 200-220 pound linebackers is going to cause other issues against the run. I think we might be in agreement that the 4-2-5 would be the best option.
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I agree. MSU runs the 4-2-5 and does well against spread offenses. Yes, you have to have the right personnel - great coverage d backs & fast LB's, and lots of both. You get LB's on receivers, but all defenses have weaknesses. The 3-3-5 isn't gap sound, and when you run into a gap with zero defenders, well, you're seen that result. MSU is 2 years undefeated in the BSC. SFA had one hell of an offense this year, MSU handled that pressure too. NDSU uses it. What is the love affair with the 3-3-5? 4-2-5 is the Better scheme & easier to recruit talented players to it.
 
Vamos Gatos Vamos said:
I agree. MSU runs the 4-2-5 and does well against spread offenses. Yes, you have to have the right personnel - great coverage d backs & fast LB's, and lots of both. You get LB's on receivers, but all defenses have weaknesses. The 3-3-5 isn't gap sound, and when you run into a gap with zero defenders, well, you're seen that result. MSU is 2 years undefeated in the BSC. SFA had one hell of an offense this year, MSU handled that pressure too. NDSU uses it. What is the love affair with the 3-3-5? 4-2-5 is the Better scheme & easier to recruit talented players to it.
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There could be a benefit to running something different than most teams, especially with a lot of pre snap movement. Teams are used to facing the 4-2-5 and seeing something different with a lot of pre snap movement could lead to more mistakes by the offense. I haven’t heard that from the coaches but it is a hypothesis I have.
 
billingsgriz said:
Yes, Justin Green 💚 and staff have been and will be hitting the Montana highways soon for the '27 class, and he and his peers, including Bobby, know their way around Billings and that's great because with 4 public high schools ( Senior, West, Skyview, Lockwood), two private, Billings Central ( Catholic ) and Billings Christian ✝️ ( Evangelical Protestant), there is a little talent down here in Montana's biggest city of about 125,000 souls as evidenced recently by Gabe Sulser, Trevyn Gradney and Junior Bergen, and currently by Cade Boyd and Clay Oven, both of Central, and incoming Merek Fisher of Skyview and William Snell, also of Central.
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I know Justin is a great recruiter, but clearly the collective recruiting effort for MT is just not good enough.

Last recruiting cycle, the Cats landed 8 out of the top 10 in-state recruits. We got 1 and Carrol got 1. That is simply not going to cut it.
 
gotgame75 said:
I know Justin is a great recruiter, but clearly the collective recruiting effort for MT is just not good enough.

Last recruiting cycle, the Cats landed 8 out of the top 10 in-state recruits. We got 1 and Carrol got 1. That is simply not going to cut it.
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The formula for beating the Cats is pretty simple. It has been the same for decades. The team that can get the best players from Montana high schools, wins the rushing yards comparison and wins the time of possession during the game usually wins the game. MSU has beaten Hauck 2.0 in all 3 of these critical phases every season. UM was able to win a couple of games (2021 and 2023 thank you Choate commit Junior Bergen), but they have not won in any of those 3 critical phases to winning the rivalry since Hauck returned.
 
5280Griz said:
The formula for beating the Cats is pretty simple. It has been the same for decades. The team that can get the best players from Montana high schools, wins the rushing yards comparison and wins the time of possession during the game usually wins the game. MSU has beaten Hauck 2.0 in all 3 of these critical phases every season. UM was able to win a couple of games (2021 and 2023 thank you Choate commit Junior Bergen), but they have not won in any of those 3 critical phases to winning the rivalry since Hauck returned.
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No, that's not accurate regarding the formula. Not even close. You are clueless.
 
mthoopsfan said:
No, that's not accurate regarding the formula. Not even close. You are clueless.
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What do you think the formula is? From what I have seen, the weather in Montana in late November is usually bad which favors whichever team can control the line of scrimmage and run the ball usually wins the game. Skill players are less of a factor than earlier games in the season due to the weather.
 
You all are insane. You have a great winning program.

A new coach in this era means you will likely lose your whole team and a have a 3-5 win season.

You’d rather be below .500 for a season than have Hauck as your coach?
 
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