There's nothing wrong with Men's Griz B-ball...

[GrizLA]

The biggest thing wrong with Griz basketball is that the mens' team is not playing this week....

 

[dub-foncy]

p

 

[Evizzerate]

Does Freddy Owens travel the midwest for recruiting?

 

[bigtyme]

...as long as they limit their scheduling to the BSC and lower division basketball programs. Compared with the better mid majors and higher Griz squads overall suffer from a clear lack of quickness. Time and time again we've seen teams drive for successful layouts because defenders could not fill the driving lane. Cherry is the most notable exception on a team of generally slow-footed players. Tinkle (obviously a big guy himself) favors size while sacrificing quickness in the process. The past season's lack of consistent outside shooting is a temporary worry, but the pervading sense that UM squads don't truly believe that they match up in March is endemic and has been a problem every since Krysko left. With Heathcote Morrill and Montgomery UM played instinctually, whereas IMHO recent Griz teams have become so deliberate in their mind-numbing sets as to become terribly predictable.

Watching the NCAA's further reinforces the fact that the succcessful teams are both quick and physical which is why Montana and the rest of the BSC continue to reinforce their reputation as the "one and done" conference come March Madness. Unless the Griz do a serious program evaluation you should expect more of the same in the future. Instead of concentrating on tall timber perhaps Tinkle needs to extend his recruiting to areas of the country, maybe even the East Coast where dinky schools you've never heard of before play a speed up game built around quick players with ball smarts and fast hands and feet developed from playing against the best since childhood. Otherwise UM should charter to become the first state- supported Catholic school to give Gonzaga some recruiting competition out West... Kidding...sorta.

The most difficult fix may be to get UM basketballers and coaches to believe that they can actually compete outside of a woefully weak BSC that offers little or no competitive incentive.

I seem to recall a very close game that UM had a chance to win just last March against a very good UNM team. How short memory deters us from being intelligent. We had a top five center of all time in BQ, probably a top ten point of all time and there is complaining; we were just two consistent shooters, of which Tinks think he had in last year's class, away from being maybe undefeated in the BSC. Other than BQ, this year was sort of a rebuilding year with 7 new guys. I disagree with the speed thing. If we had some better shooters, shooting will trump speed all day long with great offensive execution. Of course athletic shooters would be of benefit. You don't think UM believes we can compete with other teams? I also recall kicking UCLAs ass this year, a game I would have a hard time believing we walked in there expecting to get beat as you suggest. Interesting conversation though.

 

[PlayerRep]

First of all, since im an adult, I will reply to your ridiculous, pointless post even though you dont have an answer for mine...why didnt you answer mine, by the way?...were you not able to bullshit your way through how damn athletic the big sky conference is so you just scrapped it?

Marc mariani's official pro day 40 was 4.48...my post, from months back, which had nothing to do with this or anything else, was based on what an actual scout at the combine told me...so if what he said was wrong by 2 tenths of a second, then by god ya got me player! By the way, you drop that bs about some nfl info sites say as low as 4.40 lol...well some info also says as high as 4.51...its not my problem that your man crush makes you believe is was more like a 4.4 than a 4.5...oh, im sorry, technically you didnt say exactly that, you just kind of implied it, huh

you said sarcastically not to try and tell you that cherry wasnt athletic...well i never even eluded to that...so A, youre a moron and pulled that from absolutely nowhere making no point whatsoever in bringing up who everyone knows is an extremely athletic kid...or B...youre inferring that i did elude to cherry in some way...is it A or B?...

oh, and in the interest of staying on topic, did you plan to reply to my previous post?...or would you like to discuss who i lost my virginity to and a parking ticket i had a few years back, you know, anything that might impune and discredit my ability to be such an enlightened and insightful poster as yourself :clap:

I don't believe you said Mariani ran a 4.48 at pro day. Others did. You said Mariani didn't run the fastest time at pro day, but that is not accurate, according the official NFL results and what some others posted on egriz.

Again, I directed no comment to you about Cherry. You apparently can't read.

I think it's funny that you make a big deal about not trusting hand-held times, and indicate that only the NFL times are accurate--but you didn't know the pro day, and some Combine, times are handheld.

I'm not going to answer questions from you or have a discussion with you, because you're being a jerk, and can't read. Glad to hear you're an adult, because you're not acting that way.

 

[PlayerRep]

...as long as they limit their scheduling to the BSC and lower division basketball programs. Compared with the better mid majors and higher Griz squads overall suffer from a clear lack of quickness. Time and time again we've seen teams drive for successful layouts because defenders could not fill the driving lane. Cherry is the most notable exception on a team of generally slow-footed players. Tinkle (obviously a big guy himself) favors size while sacrificing quickness in the process. The past season's lack of consistent outside shooting is a temporary worry, but the pervading sense that UM squads don't truly believe that they match up in March is endemic and has been a problem every since Krysko left. With Heathcote Morrill and Montgomery UM played instinctually, whereas IMHO recent Griz teams have become so deliberate in their mind-numbing sets as to become terribly predictable.

Watching the NCAA's further reinforces the fact that the succcessful teams are both quick and physical which is why Montana and the rest of the BSC continue to reinforce their reputation as the "one and done" conference come March Madness. Unless the Griz do a serious program evaluation you should expect more of the same in the future. Instead of concentrating on tall timber perhaps Tinkle needs to extend his recruiting to areas of the country, maybe even the East Coast where dinky schools you've never heard of before play a speed up game built around quick players with ball smarts and fast hands and feet developed from playing against the best since childhood. Otherwise UM should charter to become the first state- supported Catholic school to give Gonzaga some recruiting competition out West... Kidding...sorta.

The most difficult fix may be to get UM basketballers and coaches to believe that they can actually compete outside of a woefully weak BSC that offers little or no competitive incentive.

I seem to recall a very close game that UM had a chance to win just last March against a very good UNM team. How short memory deters us from being intelligent. We had a top five center of all time in BQ, probably a top ten point of all time and there is complaining; we were just two consistent shooters, of which Tinks think he had in last year's class, away from being maybe undefeated in the BSC. Other than BQ, this year was sort of a rebuilding year with 7 new guys. I disagree with the speed thing. If we had some better shooters, shooting will trump speed all day long with great offensive execution. Of course athletic shooters would be of benefit. You don't think UM believes we can compete with other teams? I also recall kicking UCLAs ass this year, a game I would have a hard time believing we walked in there expecting to get beat as you suggest. Interesting conversation though.

Good points. My view is that we were a Michael Taylor away from being a good ncca tourney team.

 

[Proud Griz Man]

... Cherry is the most notable exception on a team of generally slow-footed players.

Tinkle (obviously a big guy himself) favors size :idea: :idea: while sacrificing quickness in the process. The past season's lack of consistent outside shooting is a temporary worry, but the pervading sense that UM squads don't ...match up in March is endemic and has been a problem every since Krysko left.

With Heathcote Morrill and Montgomery UM played instinctually :? :?: :?: , whereas IMHO recent Griz teams have become so deliberate in their mind-numbing sets as to become terribly predictable.

If you are focusing on guard-centric teams like last year with A.J. then you have forgotten most about the Heathcote-through- Stew Morrill years. That is not the true Griz history, whereby UM has had numerous strong & physical low-post players and rarely had any super-quick and athletic guards. Griz basketball has usually been characterized by stingy 2-3 zone defense specializing in conference-leading low-scoring defense and low-field-goal-percentage defense, and not conference-leading scoring offenses. Examples of the low-post players (Heathcote-Brandenberg-Montgomery-Morrill era) include:

Ken McKenzie
Michael John Richardson
John Stroeder
Rod Brandon
Derrick Pope
Larry McBride
Larry Krystkowiak
Wayne Tinkle
Darren Engellant
Kevin Kearney
Matt Kempfert

 

[ordigger]

I will officially go on record by saying the Big Sky Conference is an ATHLETIC conference.....

ath·let·ic
–adjective
1. physically active and strong; good at athletics or sports: an athletic child.
2. of, like, or befitting an athlete.
3. of or pertaining to athletes; involving the use of physical skills or capabilities, as strength, agility, or stamina: athletic sports; athletic training.

And just so there is no misunderstanding, an athlete is....

ath·lete
–noun
a person trained or gifted in exercises or contests involving physical agility, stamina, or strength; a participant in a sport, exercise, or game requiring physical skill.

THUS it is very obvious the BSC is an athletic league. Even Bubba Joe's Backyard BBQ league is athletic. Ever seen one of those guys lift a sparerib?

 

[GrizDDS]

Is the speed issue caused by a lack of $ issue?

It's from limiting our recruiting to the West, when we should be recruiting the Mid West and East Coast. Places where mountains are a novelty and a selling point, places where the weather is just as bad if not worse.

Not recruiting the Mid-West is so crazy as to be mind-blowing.

Recruit Chicago, Indy, Minni, KC, STL, and Detroit. This goes for football too. Every time I hear a kid whine about the weather in Missoula I want to facebook them and remind them that there are a hundred kids with more talent than them at schools like UNI and SIU that WISH they went to a school in the mountains. Bringing kids to Montana from SoCal, AZ, and HI is dumbfoundingly counter-intuitive.

Have you forgotten about Raason Young (JC in Maryland), who ended up at MSU-Billings because of grades, or the kid from Brooklyn that left the team before playing a game because he was homesick, or the Jovanni SIms kid from Milwaukee that never stepped on the court? All were supposed to be great athletes. Or take a look at mslacat's blog, there are several players from Minnesota and Wisconsin that UM has recruited over the last few years that apparently had no interest in coming to Missoula. I don't think the staff is neglecting half the country. It's just tough to recruit with success on a national level with a meager budget.

I think the problem this year wasn't recruiting, it was that the slow-paced, half-court style of play is susceptible to quick high-tempo teams, especially when you don't have a 3-pt threat. It seems like Georgetown falls almost every year to lower rated teams in the tournament for this same reason and they are as far east and urban as you can get.

 

[bigtyme]

I will officially go on record by saying the Big Sky Conference is an ATHLETIC conference.....

ath·let·ic
–adjective
1. physically active and strong; good at athletics or sports: an athletic child.
2. of, like, or befitting an athlete.
3. of or pertaining to athletes; involving the use of physical skills or capabilities, as strength, agility, or stamina: athletic sports; athletic training.

And just so there is no misunderstanding, an athlete is....

ath·lete
–noun
a person trained or gifted in exercises or contests involving physical agility, stamina, or strength; a participant in a sport, exercise, or game requiring physical skill.

THUS it is very obvious the BSC is an athletic league. Even Bubba Joe's Backyard BBQ league is athletic. Ever seen one of those guys lift a sparerib?

It seems to me you are saying that the BSC is equivalent to the ACC/Big East etc. Just because someone can shoot a basketball, or throw a football does not necessarily mean that they are athletic; athlete in the sense they compete in a sport yes, skilled yes, athletic not necessarily. Good work on identifying the BSC as an athletic conference.

 

[dub-foncy]

:lol:

 

[CDAGRIZ]

Lamarr Farr.

But I do see Dub's point to a degree.

 

[Gallatin Griz]

dub wrote, ""urban" kids. What is everyone's fascination with that term?"

What's the problem? We just want a few to become Grizzly urban legends!

 

[stubbins]

...as long as they limit their scheduling to the BSC and lower division basketball programs. Compared with the better mid majors and higher Griz squads overall suffer from a clear lack of quickness. Time and time again we've seen teams drive for successful layouts because defenders could not fill the driving lane. Cherry is the most notable exception on a team of generally slow-footed players. Tinkle (obviously a big guy himself) favors size while sacrificing quickness in the process. The past season's lack of consistent outside shooting is a temporary worry, but the pervading sense that UM squads don't truly believe that they match up in March is endemic and has been a problem every since Krysko left. With Heathcote Morrill and Montgomery UM played instinctually, whereas IMHO recent Griz teams have become so deliberate in their mind-numbing sets as to become terribly predictable.

Watching the NCAA's further reinforces the fact that the succcessful teams are both quick and physical which is why Montana and the rest of the BSC continue to reinforce their reputation as the "one and done" conference come March Madness. Unless the Griz do a serious program evaluation you should expect more of the same in the future. Instead of concentrating on tall timber perhaps Tinkle needs to extend his recruiting to areas of the country, maybe even the East Coast where dinky schools you've never heard of before play a speed up game built around quick players with ball smarts and fast hands and feet developed from playing against the best since childhood. Otherwise UM should charter to become the first state- supported Catholic school to give Gonzaga some recruiting competition out West... Kidding...sorta.

The most difficult fix may be to get UM basketballers and coaches to believe that they can actually compete outside of a woefully weak BSC that offers little or no competitive incentive.

I seem to recall a very close game that UM had a chance to win just last March against a very good UNM team. How short memory deters us from being intelligent. We had a top five center of all time in BQ, probably a top ten point of all time and there is complaining; we were just two consistent shooters, of which Tinks think he had in last year's class, away from being maybe undefeated in the BSC. Other than BQ, this year was sort of a rebuilding year with 7 new guys. I disagree with the speed thing. If we had some better shooters, shooting will trump speed all day long with great offensive execution. Of course athletic shooters would be of benefit. You don't think UM believes we can compete with other teams? I also recall kicking UCLAs ass this year, a game I would have a hard time believing we walked in there expecting to get beat as you suggest. Interesting conversation though.

Good points. My view is that we were a Michael Taylor away from being a good ncca tourney team.

yep...I said at the start of the conference season, if the griz would've found one deadly outside shooter, they would be hard pressed to beat with selvig and cherry keeping them honest from outside.

Will be interesting to see how this team is coached next year.

 

[Silvertip]

The original subject of this thread was the need of the men's staff to go after talent that is both quick to the ball and physical - wherever that may be. (Ditto for our beloved Lady Griz)...Wussy complaints about it being too expensive to recruit the distant basketball rich areas of the country call to mind the lady who upon being asked why she was searching in the house for an earring lost in the driveway replied that the light was better there?.. You go where the players are!

Insanity is defined as doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

 

[GrizDDS]

Lamarr Farr.

But I do see Dub's point to a degree.

. . . Kamarr Davis, Matt Martin, Bryan Ellis (Detroit via SLC). Griz have had some success east of the Rockies in addition to the strikeouts. Griz are still recruiting the central time zone hard, it looks like. It just hasn't been very fruitful for UM recently.

http://mslacat.wordpress.com/recruiting-lists/um-bb-2011/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[PlayerRep]

The original subject of this thread was the need of the men's staff to go after talent that is both quick to the ball and physical - wherever that may be. (Ditto for our beloved Lady Griz)...Wussy complaints about it being too expensive to recruit the distant basketball rich areas of the country call to mind the lady who upon being asked why she was searching in the house for an earring lost in the driveway replied that the light was better there?.. You go where the players are!

Insanity is defined as doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

I don't know where you want UM to recruit, but they already recruit the West and at least portions of the Midwest. I don't think the question is where UM should recruit, it's more a question of who can UM attract. It may surprise you, but good players also get offers from other good schools.

 

[citygriz]

the griz will always be a big sky power. beyond that, we'll always be asking "what if?"
--what if last year we'd had the more mature cherry and the athleticism of steward and jamaar?
--what if this year we'd had a.j.?
--what if this year chase or wood had been an impact player?
--what if next year we hadn't burned qvale's redshirt year?
--what if next year we hadn't burned qvale's redshirt year, and one of the two incoming freshmen turns out to be an impact player?
that dream of a sweet sixteen will always be a day late and one or two players short. gonzaga's bench would be in the hunt for a big sky championship. that's what it means to be a mid-major. the same would be true of football if we didn't play in a second rate division.

 

[mtgrizrule]

the griz will always be a big sky power. beyond that, we'll always be asking "what if?"
--what if last year we'd had the more mature cherry and the athleticism of steward and jamaar?
--what if this year we'd had a.j.?
--what if this year chase or wood had been an impact player?
--what if next year we hadn't burned qvale's redshirt year?
--what if next year we hadn't burned qvale's redshirt year, and one of the two incoming freshmen turns out to be an impact player?
that dream of a sweet sixteen will always be a day late and one or two players short. gonzaga's bench would be in the hunt for a big sky championship. that's what it means to be a mid-major. the same would be true of football if we didn't play in a second rate division.

IF we had Qvale back for next year, odds are we have one less freshman coming in. Then again, to get 2 talented freshman, who says Tinkle would have kept everyone? I still have a feeling 1 to 3 guys that were supposed to be back, will not be back.

 

[Grizbacker1]

the griz will always be a big sky power. beyond that, we'll always be asking "what if?"
--what if last year we'd had the more mature cherry and the athleticism of steward and jamaar?
--what if this year we'd had a.j.?
--what if this year chase or wood had been an impact player?
--what if next year we hadn't burned qvale's redshirt year?
--what if next year we hadn't burned qvale's redshirt year, and one of the two incoming freshmen turns out to be an impact player?
that dream of a sweet sixteen will always be a day late and one or two players short. gonzaga's bench would be in the hunt for a big sky championship. that's what it means to be a mid-major. the same would be true of football if we didn't play in a second rate division.

Your entire being revolves around one word: IF what a loser