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the state of montana men's basketball

C

citygriz

Well-known member
i've noticed a trend lately, and it is this: in both football and women's basketball, the coaches have been able to get huge contributions from montana athletes.

from our football team of two years ago, five kids are on n.f.l. rosters. going back just a few years, dave dickinson is headed for the c.f.l hall of fame, while dozens and dozens of other montana athletes have carved our huge reputations for themselves as grizzly fooball players, and helped put montana on the football map.

ditto women's basketball. from cate and lake to koss and sisco through morales, lohman and rogers, and including next year's great recruiting class, selvig has been able to build a hugely successful program around montana kids.

so i ask: where are the montana kids when it comes to basketball? kevin criswell is the last great montana star the men's program produced, yet throughout the montana glory years, the state produced any number of key contributors to the montana program: the selvig brothers, the demers brothers, engellant, camel, neilsen, hurley, krysko...okay, i'm bouncing around in time here, but i still think i could make the point if i had time to do the research that there has been a real dearth lately of montana basketball talent. and when there is talent, as in the case of miller from helena capital or osweiller from kalispell, not only do they not stay home, they choose football over basketball.

i know we can't compete in any sport without an infusion of outside talent, but when it comes to men's basketball, i have to wonder: what has happened to the montana talent? have we become such a football state that we've forgotten how to play basketball?
 
Basketball, at least as it is being played today, is an urban game...there are a few notable standouts each year from smaller, rural,or suburban areas, but most players are pegged early and recieve special mentoring..Personally, I think it is wrong as it tends to breed a sense of entitlement and false expectations, but that is reality. Even the public schools in SoCal are now recruiting from other districts....Montana can rarely compete on an equal plain...it takes someone very special to coach, and play against kids who do little else but play ball...
 
That’s an interesting question, city.

I think you’re probably right in that football’s popularity has been at the expense of basketball. But I would add soccer to that equation as well. Soccer’s popularity has hurt basketball, football and baseball.

But having said that, I also think that basketball recruiting has become much more competitive. Why? Here are a few possibilities.

Recruiting information is far more prevalent today than it was 30 years ago. Think about it – if you were a basketball coach in the 70’s, you had to travel around the country to find players, and many colleges simply didn’t have the recruiting budgets to travel far. So schools like UM had to find a few “impact players,” and then supplement their talents with Montana players. These days, coaches can sit in their offices and watch film submitted by high school kids, parents and/or coaches around the country. And they can communicate with them (within NCAA guidelines) much easier and cheaper. In addition, the various recruiting websites (Rivals, Scout, Hoopmasters, Hoopskills, etc.), have given coaches that many more resources. So information technology has had a huge impact.

This, in turn, has made recruiting far more competitive overall.

A few other major factors:

• The increasing exodus of players to the NBA after one, two or three college seasons.
• The emergence of international players.

The bottom line is that UM could be much more competitive 30 years ago with Montana kids than it can today. I always use the example of Charlie Cox, a very good player at Hellgate who graduated in 2005. In the mid-70’s Cox would have been a star at UM, but thirty years later, a kid like that washes out of the program.

And of course, there are some exceptions. Scott Zanon, who could both shoot from deep and dunk it in your face, would be a fine player for UM today.

So those are just a few thoughts...
 
since i was mildly curious about my own question, i looked up some numbers.

since the "modern" era of montana basketball, which i date to the arrival of jud heathcote, we have had about 140 letter winners, of which 40 were from montana. so the breakdown historically is roughly about 30% in state, and 70% out of state.

today's basketball roster has twelve likely letterwinners (i'm excluding the recent walk-on), or 17% in-state.

football meanwhile has a roster of about 92, of whom 43 are in-state, or 47%. the percentage of in-state players typically seems to be much higher for football.

the lady griz? forget it! the percentage of in-state players would almost exactly reverse the men's numbers i would think, probably around 70%. maybe someday i'll look it up.
 
This years Lady Griz Roster is kind of a fluke, out of the ordinary. 8 out of the 13 scholarship players are out of state. It will return closer to the norm next year though after the 5 in-state recruits join the team.

Maybe Griz football is so popular in state that is influencing more kids to play football over basketball. soccer may have some influence. But, there are more opportunities in college for soccer for girls that I would think it would affect the Lady Griz more.
 
City, I think you already answered your original question as to why we do not have more Montana born basketball players. A lot of it has to do with a much higher percentage of Montana kids desiring to play football over basketball.
 
I must be missing something here. Or maybe Missoula is not in the state.

I think I recall a Montana player who contributed in the NCAA tournament not that long ago and was starting last year. Was as effective at times as those listed above except for maybe Larry K.

There used to be a larger solid fan base and therefore it seemed like a few more MT stars.

Trivia question is Missoula in MT and who was the mystery player?
 
BARN BALL said:
I must be missing something here. Or maybe Missoula is not in the state.

I think I recall a Montana player who contributed in the NCAA tournament not that long ago and was starting last year. Was as effective at times as those listed above except for maybe Larry K.

There used to be a larger solid fan base and therefore it seemed like a few more MT stars.

Trivia question is Missoula in MT and who was the mystery player?
Click to expand...
Hardly trivia-Jordan Hasquet :mrgreen:
 
AAU has no real strong presence in Montana as it has in other states. A lot of that has to deal with the fact we a rural state with no major Urban areas. High School ball has declined in the state, becuase the MHSA hasn't changed anything for the past 25-30 years. Class C doesn't need a 9 team tournament ( stupid idea) it needs a 12 team tournament, Class A and AA should be combined in hoops and I would like to see a shot clock added. The MHSA needs to make things more competitive and make coaches have to work harder. I watch HS ball and all I see is zone defense and slow down offense being played. Plus, I think all the politics of HS sports of has hurt the game. Just look at Mike Cole, Eric Stang, and Jeff Elliot's situations. Good successful coaches who got run off or forced out by parents or school administrators who had personal agendas. Sad
 
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