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The Reason the Griz Lost

Agent G

Well-known member
First, congrats to the Griz for a great season. While it didn't end the way anyone would like it to, we can't let that overshadow the fact that they did very well and came a long way. Winning the Big Sky conference and the tourney were huge. Coach Tinkle, his staff, the players, and all Griz fans should be very proud.

I'm not going to comment on whether or not UM should leave the Big Sky or why the conference may not get a team deep into the NCAA tourney...that's all been well discussed in other threads. I'll just say there would be many many other problems and issues to deal with if UM went to another conference that could open another can of worms that many would be even more unhappy about.

The bottom line is that the Griz definitely could have won the game against Wisconsin and there is one primary reason they didn't....

Midrange Shooting

It's obvious UM had a big challenge ahead of them in beating Wisconsin. UW had much more size and experience playing in a tougher conference. Those issues could have been overcome if the Griz had a better game by simply using an aspect of the game that is becoming more and more of a dinosaur in basketball...midrange shooting.

I've been involved with the game at many different levels and in many different roles for a lot of years and this is becoming more and more of an issue that really drives me crazy. More and more teams at all levels have become two dimensional...they either take the ball all the way to the hoop and hope for a bucket and foul or they shoot 3's. The midrange game is often completely overlooked or many coaches discourage their players from shooting it...only promoting the two other dimensions. Teams that have and use good midrange shooters often win championships and the Griz at times have shown flashes of it during the year.

I watched the game in person and again watched a recording of it. I'll point out several specifics to support what I'm saying.

Will Cherry has greatly improved his shooting over the last couple years and he has had many games where he has scored from all three levels. In the game against UW he didn't shoot one midrange shot. He was 3 for 14 from the floor. 11 of those shots were drives to the bucket and the other 3 were three point shots. He made 2 of those 11 shots, 3 were blocked, 4 were altered because he was afraid of them being blocked, and 2 were just missed. He didn't have one assist.

Will is a great player and this isn't an indictment against him...it's just part of the game that he or the coaches should have recognized and made adjustments. After the first 3 or 4 times those drives didn't work, he should have started looking to dish it off and the other 4 players could have gotten good looks had they positioned themselves for midrange shots or even 3's. He also could have shot the pull up jumper that he has proven to be effective.

Jamar and Ward are the best midrange shooters from the starting 5. Jamar hit a couple in the first half but didn't take any in the second half. Ward didn't shoot any midrange shots. The Griz also have guys from the bench who can knock down those shots but they haven't really been used this year. There didn't appear to be any real plan to get good midrange shots and that really was the only chance the Griz had to win it in my opinion. The Griz defense really didn't do too badly. They had a few letdowns but that's not what cost them the game. UW hit some tough shots and the Griz didn't utilize the part of the game that mattered the most.

The big guy from UW blocked 7 shots but altered many more than that which basically worked the same as a block. It got to the point that the Griz often missed uncontested shots simply because he had them worried about getting their shot blocked. Steward and Jamar had some success posting up and finishing in the paint during the first half. But the Griz had almost no success with the slash/drive plays as those were the ones that the big man affected.

On the other hand, UW was killing the Griz with their midrange shooting. Yes, they did hit 6 threes during the first half that hurt. The Griz stayed within striking distance during that time though. #5, Evans, was 4 for 5 during the first half from midrange and he ended up 6 for 8 for the game. He hit one three and four of those makes were midrange shots. I'm not saying UW beat us with the midrange...it was just used as a part of their game whereas the Griz really didn't use it at all.

If a team isn't successful in scoring or drawing fouls at the rim, and if they aren't knocking down 3's, then they have to be able to score at midrange. UM only had 8 assists and UW had 15. That's not going to win many games against a bigger and more experienced team. When it became obvious that the drive to the glass wasn't going to be effective we should have utilized it with the intent of hitting the open player for open shots. I don't think the problem was that the drives weren't strong enough...it was just the length and timing of the UW big man that mattered. There were some plays that involved some body contact and may have been fouls. Most of the time they were good blocks and if it's clean at the top and the offensive player initiates the body contact, most officials won't call a foul.

The Griz had a 10 minute stretch in which they couldn't hit a shot. Ward finally hit a 3 pointer to stop the drought. Again...if the drive to the hoop isn't working and 3's aren't falling, we should have been looking for and taking midrange shots. Also, we could have fed the ball to the post with the primary intent of the outside players moving to open spots for the kickout.

Regardless of the way the game ended, I'm sure it will be a great learning experience for the players and coaches. They will be a better team for it and will have a great chance to take the Big Sky and go to the NCAA tourney again next year. I just hope part of the lesson learned relates to....

Midrange Shooting
 
One thing I have noticed in Gonzaga today, and Lehigh last night, is that they are always attacking. They don't have typical big guys, but guys who can attack, hit the pull-up jumper from three, or mid range, or attack the rim.

They also have teams that seem to move more and get to open spaces while someone is driving....I don't know if this is a product of better spacing or what.

Hard to argue against what Tinkle has done here with the deliberate offense, but it definately has the ability to go stagnant every so often. In no way am I trying to criticize what the Griz offense and team has done, because they have been pretty damn effective. I am just curious what gives a lower seeded team the ability to play with the better teams.

VCU has done pretty well with five guys that are extremely athletic and quick vs. a big guy and a slow paced offense...

It seems that Tinkle may be heading this way with his recruiting lately....thoughts?

As I watch Gonzaga leat OSU in the first half, not one dominant big guy, but a bunch of really athletic forward type players, and a point guard that are constantly moving...
 
Agent G said:
First, congrats to the Griz for a great season. While it didn't end the way anyone would like it to, we can't let that overshadow the fact that they did very well and came a long way. Winning the Big Sky conference and the tourney were huge. Coach Tinkle, his staff, the players, and all Griz fans should be very proud.

I'm not going to comment on whether or not UM should leave the Big Sky or why the conference may not get a team deep into the NCAA tourney...that's all been well discussed in other threads. I'll just say there would be many many other problems and issues to deal with if UM went to another conference that could open another can of worms that many would be even more unhappy about.

The bottom line is that the Griz definitely could have won the game against Wisconsin and there is one primary reason they didn't....

Midrange Shooting

It's obvious UM had a big challenge ahead of them in beating Wisconsin. UW had much more size and experience playing in a tougher conference. Those issues could have been overcome if the Griz had a better game by simply using an aspect of the game that is becoming more and more of a dinosaur in basketball...midrange shooting.

I've been involved with the game at many different levels and in many different roles for a lot of years and this is becoming more and more of an issue that really drives me crazy. More and more teams at all levels have become two dimensional...they either take the ball all the way to the hoop and hope for a bucket and foul or they shoot 3's. The midrange game is often completely overlooked or many coaches discourage their players from shooting it...only promoting the two other dimensions. Teams that have and use good midrange shooters often win championships and the Griz at times have shown flashes of it during the year.

I watched the game in person and again watched a recording of it. I'll point out several specifics to support what I'm saying.

Will Cherry has greatly improved his shooting over the last couple years and he has had many games where he has scored from all three levels. In the game against UW he didn't shoot one midrange shot. He was 3 for 14 from the floor. 11 of those shots were drives to the bucket and the other 3 were three point shots. He made 2 of those 11 shots, 3 were blocked, 4 were altered because he was afraid of them being blocked, and 2 were just missed. He didn't have one assist.

Will is a great player and this isn't an indictment against him...it's just part of the game that he or the coaches should have recognized and made adjustments. After the first 3 or 4 times those drives didn't work, he should have started looking to dish it off and the other 4 players could have gotten good looks had they positioned themselves for midrange shots or even 3's. He also could have shot the pull up jumper that he has proven to be effective.

Jamar and Ward are the best midrange shooters from the starting 5. Jamar hit a couple in the first half but didn't take any in the second half. Ward didn't shoot any midrange shots. The Griz also have guys from the bench who can knock down those shots but they haven't really been used this year. There didn't appear to be any real plan to get good midrange shots and that really was the only chance the Griz had to win it in my opinion. The Griz defense really didn't do too badly. They had a few letdowns but that's not what cost them the game. UW hit some tough shots and the Griz didn't utilize the part of the game that mattered the most.

The big guy from UW blocked 7 shots but altered many more than that which basically worked the same as a block. It got to the point that the Griz often missed uncontested shots simply because he had them worried about getting their shot blocked. Steward and Jamar had some success posting up and finishing in the paint during the first half. But the Griz had almost no success with the slash/drive plays as those were the ones that the big man affected.

On the other hand, UW was killing the Griz with their midrange shooting. Yes, they did hit 6 threes during the first half that hurt. The Griz stayed within striking distance during that time though. #5, Evans, was 4 for 5 during the first half from midrange and he ended up 6 for 8 for the game. He hit one three and four of those makes were midrange shots. I'm not saying UW beat us with the midrange...it was just used as a part of their game whereas the Griz really didn't use it at all.

If a team isn't successful in scoring or drawing fouls at the rim, and if they aren't knocking down 3's, then they have to be able to score at midrange. UM only had 8 assists and UW had 15. That's not going to win many games against a bigger and more experienced team. When it became obvious that the drive to the glass wasn't going to be effective we should have utilized it with the intent of hitting the open player for open shots. I don't think the problem was that the drives weren't strong enough...it was just the length and timing of the UW big man that mattered. There were some plays that involved some body contact and may have been fouls. Most of the time they were good blocks and if it's clean at the top and the offensive player initiates the body contact, most officials won't call a foul.

The Griz had a 10 minute stretch in which they couldn't hit a shot. Ward finally hit a 3 pointer to stop the drought. Again...if the drive to the hoop isn't working and 3's aren't falling, we should have been looking for and taking midrange shots. Also, we could have fed the ball to the post with the primary intent of the outside players moving to open spots for the kickout.

Regardless of the way the game ended, I'm sure it will be a great learning experience for the players and coaches. They will be a better team for it and will have a great chance to take the Big Sky and go to the NCAA tourney again next year. I just hope part of the lesson learned relates to....

Midrange Shooting

I think this is a pretty good analysis. I was particularly disappointed in the play of Cherry and Jamar. It almost was if they had had so much success in the Big Sky tourney with their drives and 3 point shots in those games that they just expected the same thing to happen against Wisconsin, so they lost their focus on team play when they got behind and things just spiraled down from there. You just can't do that against a superior opponent like Wisconsin. Everyone has to be on the same page.
 
Wisconsin will be hard to beat by anybody shooting over 50% from 3 like they did against Montana
 
putter said:
Wisconsin will be hard to beat by anybody shooting over 50% from 3 like they did against Montana
Still, they just beat Vanderbilt shooting just 30.3% on their 3-pointers. I would also point out (for what it's worth) that quite a few of the so-called "experts" had Vandy advancing to the Final Four. So much for that.
 
IdaGriz01 said:
putter said:
Wisconsin will be hard to beat by anybody shooting over 50% from 3 like they did against Montana
Still, they just beat Vanderbilt shooting just 30.3% on their 3-pointers. I would also point out (for what it's worth) that quite a few of the so-called "experts" had Vandy advancing to the Final Four. So much for that.


Yep. Wisconsin is playing really well. And if you're not used to their defense, it'll cause problems for a LOT of good teams.
 
putter said:
Wisconsin will be hard to beat by anybody shooting over 50% from 3 like they did against Montana

A team that shoots 36% from three-point range was on FIRE on Thursday:

Jordan Taylor - season average of 36%, shot 3-5 (60%) Thursday
Mike Bruesewitz - season average of 28%, shot 2-3 (66%) Thursday
Josh Gasser - season average of 46%, shot 2-3 (66%) Thursday
Ryan Evans - season averag of 24%, shot 1-1 (100%) Thursday
Ben Brust - season average of 37%, shot 1-2 (50%) Thursday
Rob Wilson - season average of 40%, shot 1-3 (33%) Thursday

Wisconsin shot 48% from the field, but almost 53% from 3-point range. Wisconsin took only one more FG attempt than the Griz, but TEN more 3-point attempts (and made 7 of those). 7 additional 3-pointers is 21 points and we lose by 24. It ain't rocket science. The Griz ran into a buzzsaw, got out of their game, and didn't change their approach when the "drive-the-lane" game wasn't working (which was NEVER). You could see the body language change early in the second half as the frustration grew, and Tinkle's failure to recognize the need to change the game-plan in-game cost them any chance to win. Not a knock on Tinkle, but facts is facts...then again, I'm not sure ANY game plan was going to beat a team shooting like Wisconsin did.
 
Interesting. Some people believe the Griz lost to Wisconsin because of the Big Sky Conference. How did that work? Wac or Mwc or West Coast Confernce teams performed better ?

“I’m really proud of my seniors who have meant so much to us,” Tinkle said. “We were beaten by a better team today. We congratulate Wisconsin, but I’m still very, very proud of these guys.”

Cherry, one of three starters who will return next season, promised the Griz would work just as hard to get back to the NCAAs, then maybe take the next step.

“We can’t forget about what got us here in the first place,” Cherry said. “We worked hard all year. We bought into what the coaches were preaching each and every day at practice. … If we can keep working hard and never be satisfied, we’ll be back here. No doubt about that because we’re never satisfied. We’re hungry.

“The Grizzly way is hard, smart and together. If we can keep those things rolling, we’ll be back here without a doubt.”


Read more: http://missoulian.com/sports/college/montana/mens-basketball/griz-give-kudos-to-defensive-minded-badgers/article_f64bc8a0-6ed0-11e1-a867-001871e3ce6c.html#ixzz1pRZyUCc6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
For you mover uppers, that conference is done, though I was rooting for the Lobos. Abject failure won't get any more bids, most likely less bids. They had some good teams, watching UNLV at a horrible CO team and get schooled. I can't recall a more undisciplined team than UNLV,
 
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