The guard situation

[mtgrizrule]

Yes, 6th man is Martin's perfect role. He is definitely fine with it too. Matt is the least of the GRIZ concerns as for attitude and buying into the system this year. :thumb:

BTW, I was at the UNC game. It appeared to me all the players were on the same page with the coaching staff too. :thumb:

 

[PlayerRep]

Grizbeer, Martin started the first 11 games of the season, I believe--before not playing a game due to an infection in his foot. I don't think his good stats are attributable to his coming off the bench in the past 8 games. My guess is that his stats in the first 11 games were as good or better than they are now. Martin is a very good player and has been playing well the whole season.

 

[grizonbob]

I saw the Griz only once in person--the game at Bozeman--and I was real unimpressed with Martin's performance. Of course, the whole team played poorly at the end of the game. Martin's sin was that he kept trying to do everything himself. So he was throwing up a lot of bad long-range shots, and driving into congested areas and turning over the ball, etc. He wasn't making an effort to get his teammates involved in the game. You can't judge a whole season on just one game, but in games I've seen on TV he's often been a shoot first kind of guy. He's one of those players who can really get you going when he's hot, but really cool you off when he's not. (I will confess that there have been a number of games when Martin has been "on" and really saved their bacon.)

Tinkle indicated recently that he's reduced the minutes of Martin and Rundles in recent games as he's gone to a bigger lineup, and it obviously has contributed to the Griz success. Plus, you have to give Martin and the other guards credit for buying into the idea of looking more to pass inside to the big guys instead of looking first to bomb away from outside. The inside out game will give them better looks from outside anyway.

 

[Grizbeer]

Grizbeer, Martin started the first 11 games of the season, I believe--before not playing a game due to an infection in his foot. I don't think his good stats are attributable to his coming off the bench in the past 8 games. My guess is that his stats in the first 11 games were as good or better than they are now. Martin is a very good player and has been playing well the whole season.

It was my perception of course that Martin had been playing better coming off the bench, so just for fun I looked up the stats:

Martin's FG% was 44.7% for the first 11 games, bumped up to 49.2% the last 9 games. 3 point shooting improved from 42.86% to 45.45%. non 3 point FG improved from 50% to 58.8%, so he is shooting better coming off the bench.

Starting he average 26.6 minutes per game, since he has average 21.9 minutes per game. Starting he averaged .45 points, .09 rebounds, .11 assists, .05 turnovers, and .03 steals per minute played.

Coming off the bench he has averaged .50 points, .10 rebounds, .12 assists, .07 turnovers, and .03 steals per game.

Since coming off the bench he has been more productive per minute in every category but turnovers.

I don't have anything against Martin, I think he is a good player, but I think Tinkle has found the best role for him.

 

[PlayerRep]

Grizonbob, I don't believe this statement of yours is correct regarding Martin in the MSU game: "[he kept] driving into congested areas and turning over the ball". Martin had no turnovers against MSU, according to the stats. He led the team in assists with 3. He scored more points per minute (using Grizbeer's stat idea) than anyone who played significant minutes at MSU.

Interesting stats, Grizbeer. Thanks for doing that.

 

[grizonbob]

I stand corrected. I'm surprised he had no TOs. Guess I was just so unhappy with his bombing away outside -- 1 of 5 from outside the 3 point line -- that I ascribed some TOs to him that he didn't commit. But I do recall that he was dribbling around without getting his teammates involved. That's not to lay the loss all on him. Everyone played poorly at the end. And when they started to fall behind I think Martin decided to try to carry the team on his shoulders. I've seen games he's won when he's been hot. But that game he was gunning up ill advised shots from long range with little success (25 percent FG% total). Since that time, I think the coaches have the guards looking first to pass inside, and I think it has paid dividends.

 

[Zirg]

I beg to differ. I would say Martin's defense is certainly better than Cam's. Being that NONE of the guards play very good defense, I don't see any point in trying to justify which guards we play based on defense. Martin and Stauds are both SERIOUS threats on offense and you can see the other team scrambling to make sure they are covered at all times. When Cam is in the game, it is like the opposing defense takes a big sigh of relief - "whew, we can stand around for a while and watch him dribble out the shot clock".

If I'm defending the Griz, I think I'm much more comfortable when Martin and Stauds are on the bench, not spotting up for 3's at the wings.

Now ... if we could just figure out how to get them decent looks more often. :twocents:

you are entitled to your opinion, and I don't wanna sound like a jerk, but you obviously haven't seen as many games as I have, or are biased in Martin's favor. This isn't really a discussion in my opnion, Martin is clearly and and not even in the same ball-park as Rundles defensively and quickness-wise, and to argue other-wise befuddles me. Everyone knows Martin can score, and I do like the guy and have absolutely nothing against him, but seeing him try to guard anyone with scoring prowess worries the #### out of me

CET and Rundles shut-down Deleon of EWu pretty well after he scored 42 the game before. DeLeon got hot when Martin was guarding him, and Martin got quickly pulled. CET and Rundles put the clamps on him. Did you see that game? Again not trying to sound rude, but that game was all the proof anyone should need.

You do have a point about Rundles running the offense and his tendency to hold the ball and put up a last-second shot if he has the ball with less than 10 on the shot-clock. That is a bit annoying, but he IS a gamer and wants to make the big-shot (and that is a good quality) and almost won the PSU game at the buzzer. Everyone would be loving him if that didn't go in and out.

My argument doesn't concern offense one-bit. No one questions that Martin is an offensive threat. You claimed Martin is a better defender and then the rest of your post was all about offense. I challenge you to take a good hard look ONLY on the defensive-side and forget all your preconceptions about a player and analyze defense only, and you will change your mind. You have to have some serious Martin-tinted shades on to believe he is a better defender than CET or Rundles.

And when is Stauds ever on the bench? lol He (inexplicably) leads the Big Sky in Minutes per game.