The Effect of the University of Montana on Collegiate Sports

[CV Griz Fan]

For some reason, against my better judgement, I feel compelled to chime in on this. First I acknowledge Pflugrad was dedicated to UM and if it was his choice would probably still be here, and if he was UM football would have had a better last several years than we had. Having acknowledged that, the following must be said:

Pflugrad wanted to bring the "Oregon" system to UM. First Pflugrad had been fired from Oregon prior to coming back to UM as an assistant. No reason was ever giving for his being fired, but that is not a confidence builder

The "Oregon" system required fast athletes to run it - the kind FCS schools don't get. Pflugrad needed fast nimble O-Lineman, and the result is several years of ineffective offensive line. Blame Lurch all you want, but this started with Pflugrad.

The "Oregon" system was fun to watch at Oregon, and lifted them heights they had never seen, but ultimately never won the a National Championship. It wasn't sustainable, and ultimately led to firing of their coach.

Pflugrad lost both his O-coordinator and D-coordinator after 2011. Rumor was their was lots of friction with Jonathon Smith over Pflugrad overriding his play calls. Further rumor is this ended before the Weber State game, after which the Griz got on a winning roll.

Pflugrad replaced Smith with Timm Resenbach.

I'm am sure this will be disputed, but Pflugrad took several NFL players and an experienced roster in 2010 and turned in (relatively for circumstances) the worst season and worst coaching job in post 1985 Griz history.

5 years later, Pflugrad is an assistant coach at a junior college. Rosenbach is head coach at Adams College (and look at that record), while Smith is the O-coordinator at playoff bound UW.

I know people are upset at Pflugrad being fired, and God knows it had a negative impact on the program, but the Bottom line is I just don't see how a Pflugrad/Rosenbach Griz team trying to run the Oregon system would have put UM back in national contention the last 5 years. The real Griz decline started when Pflugrad was hired, exasperated when he was fired.

Where did Pflu ever say he wanted to run the Oregon system? I don't recall ever seeing that?

Pflu was let go by Oregon because he didn't see eye to eye with Chip Kelly. Kelly was not exactly a great guy or a coach who was doing everything right.

I'm not so sure that the Smith rumors were accurate. I asked Pflu about them once, and he reacted like he didn't know what I talking about.

It is often a positive when asst coaches leave for better jobs. FCS coaches encourage that.

No, UM, in just Pflu's second year, went to the semi's, and almost came back and got the win to go to the championship game. UM was bound for bigger and better things under Pflu.

Pflu is where he is now, solely because of Engstrom.

You need to get some facts before you make such a BS post like this one again. I don't know if you are an idiot, but your post shows signs of being written by an idiot. It is beyond far-fetched.

UM football has declined primarily because of Engstrom. If you paid any attention or knew what had occurred, you would understand.

POTY PR.....probably too late but great effort anyway.....

 

[Grizbeer]

For some reason, against my better judgement, I feel compelled to chime in on this. First I acknowledge Pflugrad was dedicated to UM and if it was his choice would probably still be here, and if he was UM football would have had a better last several years than we had. Having acknowledged that, the following must be said:

Pflugrad wanted to bring the "Oregon" system to UM. First Pflugrad had been fired from Oregon prior to coming back to UM as an assistant. No reason was ever giving for his being fired, but that is not a confidence builder

The "Oregon" system required fast athletes to run it - the kind FCS schools don't get. Pflugrad needed fast nimble O-Lineman, and the result is several years of ineffective offensive line. Blame Lurch all you want, but this started with Pflugrad.

The "Oregon" system was fun to watch at Oregon, and lifted them heights they had never seen, but ultimately never won the a National Championship. It wasn't sustainable, and ultimately led to firing of their coach.

Pflugrad lost both his O-coordinator and D-coordinator after 2011. Rumor was their was lots of friction with Jonathon Smith over Pflugrad overriding his play calls. Further rumor is this ended before the Weber State game, after which the Griz got on a winning roll.

Pflugrad replaced Smith with Timm Resenbach.

I'm am sure this will be disputed, but Pflugrad took several NFL players and an experienced roster in 2010 and turned in (relatively for circumstances) the worst season and worst coaching job in post 1985 Griz history.

5 years later, Pflugrad is an assistant coach at a junior college. Rosenbach is head coach at Adams College (and look at that record), while Smith is the O-coordinator at playoff bound UW.

I know people are upset at Pflugrad being fired, and God knows it had a negative impact on the program, but the Bottom line is I just don't see how a Pflugrad/Rosenbach Griz team trying to run the Oregon system would have put UM back in national contention the last 5 years. The real Griz decline started when Pflugrad was hired, exasperated when he was fired.

Where did Pflu ever say he wanted to run the Oregon system? I don't recall ever seeing that?

Pflu was let go by Oregon because he didn't see eye to eye with Chip Kelly. Kelly was not exactly a great guy or a coach who was doing everything right.

I'm not so sure that the Smith rumors were accurate. I asked Pflu about them once, and he reacted like he didn't know what I talking about.

It is often a positive when asst coaches leave for better jobs. FCS coaches encourage that.

No, UM, in just Pflu's second year, went to the semi's, and almost came back and got the win to go to the championship game. UM was bound for bigger and better things under Pflu.

Pflu is where he is now, solely because of Engstrom.

You need to get some facts before you make such a BS post like this one again. I don't know if you are an idiot, but your post shows signs of being written by an idiot. It is beyond far-fetched.

UM football has declined primarily because of Engstrom. If you paid any attention or knew what had occurred, you would understand.

I knew saying anything unflattering about Pflugrad I would get hammered, and I stepped in it so I can't complain. And if you are still wondering, yeah I am often an idiot. However a few comments:

About Oregon:

Pflugrad sprinkled a lot of humor in with his first official remarks as head coach, including a promise that his Griz — who went 14-1 last fall under Hauck — would be “very fast on offense, up-tempo and upbeat.”

http://billingsgazette.com/sports/college/pflugrad-says-griz-will-be-up-tempo-on-offense/article_fce75db2-fcfb-11de-ad1d-001cc4c03286.html

This year the Griz intend to spread the field and put pressure on the edges. Andrew Selle, like Reynolds a candidate for the Walter Payton Award, will trigger a more wide-open attack similar to what Oregon has used.

http://missoulian.com/sports/college/montana/football/pflugrad-finally-gets-chance-to-put-stamp-on-montana-football/article_e7f4c1f6-b30d-11df-96bf-001cc4c002e0.amp.html

It's just that the Grizzlies' fast-paced spread option offense, heavily touted by Pflugrad when he took the job, has yet to fully take root.

http://billingsgazette.com/sports/college/big-sky-conference/university-of-montana/football/rachac-defense-making-offensive-minded-pflugrad-look-good/article_f8696dfd-4e89-5c80-a533-4417b3764c9f.html

I don't know if that is enough references to Pflugrad running an "oregon style" offense?

Yes assistants leaving for FBS jobs is good - the point is the Griz were going to have new coordinators on both sides of the ball in 2012 unrelated to Pflugrad being let go. And with no JJ for QB 2012 was not going to be a championship year.

I'm not sure how Engstrom is responsible for where Pflugrad is now 5 years down the line. Pflugrad got a job the next year with Weber State. When they got fired from Weber State and Sears went to Sac State he didn't bring Pflugrad with him. Are you saying Engstrom got Sears and Pflugrad fired from Weber, and convinced Sac State not to hire Pflugrad? Pflugrad was a finalist for the Rocky Job in 2016 and didn't get it. Are you saying Engstrom stopped Rocky from hiring Pflugrad? I thought someone here recently said Engstrom gave Pflugrad a good recommendation after he fired him.

I get that being fired has negative connotations that makes schools look twice, but Pflugrad had a job the next year in the same conference. I think coaching hires are largely based on perceived performance on the field - Petrino at Louisville, Krammer at ISU are examples of fired/disgraced coaches who got another head coaching job. If Pflugrad is blaming Engstrom 5 years later for not being a head coach somewhere that might be his problem.

None if this is meant to defend Engstrom - he was a disaster for the University and for the football team.

 

[ranco]

For some reason, against my better judgement, I feel compelled to chime in on this. First I acknowledge Pflugrad was dedicated to UM and if it was his choice would probably still be here, and if he was UM football would have had a better last several years than we had. Having acknowledged that, the following must be said:

Pflugrad wanted to bring the "Oregon" system to UM. First Pflugrad had been fired from Oregon prior to coming back to UM as an assistant. No reason was ever giving for his being fired, but that is not a confidence builder

The "Oregon" system required fast athletes to run it - the kind FCS schools don't get. Pflugrad needed fast nimble O-Lineman, and the result is several years of ineffective offensive line. Blame Lurch all you want, but this started with Pflugrad.

The "Oregon" system was fun to watch at Oregon, and lifted them heights they had never seen, but ultimately never won the a National Championship. It wasn't sustainable, and ultimately led to firing of their coach.

Pflugrad lost both his O-coordinator and D-coordinator after 2011. Rumor was their was lots of friction with Jonathon Smith over Pflugrad overriding his play calls. Further rumor is this ended before the Weber State game, after which the Griz got on a winning roll.

Pflugrad replaced Smith with Timm Resenbach.

I'm am sure this will be disputed, but Pflugrad took several NFL players and an experienced roster in 2010 and turned in (relatively for circumstances) the worst season and worst coaching job in post 1985 Griz history.

5 years later, Pflugrad is an assistant coach at a junior college. Rosenbach is head coach at Adams College (and look at that record), while Smith is the O-coordinator at playoff bound UW.

I know people are upset at Pflugrad being fired, and God knows it had a negative impact on the program, but the Bottom line is I just don't see how a Pflugrad/Rosenbach Griz team trying to run the Oregon system would have put UM back in national contention the last 5 years. The real Griz decline started when Pflugrad was hired, exasperated when he was fired.

It's good to get a different more balanced assessment of Pflugrad. While Engstrom screwed him badly, way to many people on this board think he was the second coming. He had a horrible first year and a terrific second year. Who knows what would have happened in years 3,4 or 5. The success could have continued or we could have reverted back to year one. While he should have been given the opportunity to prove himself, he wasn't and without more of a record, he can't be put in a class of great Grizz coaches.

 

[sdgriz_24]

For some reason, against my better judgement, I feel compelled to chime in on this. First I acknowledge Pflugrad was dedicated to UM and if it was his choice would probably still be here, and if he was UM football would have had a better last several years than we had. Having acknowledged that, the following must be said:

Pflugrad wanted to bring the "Oregon" system to UM. First Pflugrad had been fired from Oregon prior to coming back to UM as an assistant. No reason was ever giving for his being fired, but that is not a confidence builder

The "Oregon" system required fast athletes to run it - the kind FCS schools don't get. Pflugrad needed fast nimble O-Lineman, and the result is several years of ineffective offensive line. Blame Lurch all you want, but this started with Pflugrad.

The "Oregon" system was fun to watch at Oregon, and lifted them heights they had never seen, but ultimately never won the a National Championship. It wasn't sustainable, and ultimately led to firing of their coach.

Pflugrad lost both his O-coordinator and D-coordinator after 2011. Rumor was their was lots of friction with Jonathon Smith over Pflugrad overriding his play calls. Further rumor is this ended before the Weber State game, after which the Griz got on a winning roll.

Pflugrad replaced Smith with Timm Resenbach.

I'm am sure this will be disputed, but Pflugrad took several NFL players and an experienced roster in 2010 and turned in (relatively for circumstances) the worst season and worst coaching job in post 1985 Griz history.

5 years later, Pflugrad is an assistant coach at a junior college. Rosenbach is head coach at Adams College (and look at that record), while Smith is the O-coordinator at playoff bound UW.

I know people are upset at Pflugrad being fired, and God knows it had a negative impact on the program, but the Bottom line is I just don't see how a Pflugrad/Rosenbach Griz team trying to run the Oregon system would have put UM back in national contention the last 5 years. The real Griz decline started when Pflugrad was hired, exasperated when he was fired.

No, UM, in just Pflu's second year, went to the semi's, and almost came back and got the win to go to the championship game. UM was bound for bigger and better things under Pflu.

So winning with someone else's recruits makes you a good coach? And not winning with someone else's recruits makes you a bad coach? (I tend to lean on the players make the plays)

Hopefully we can finally see again what a coach can do with their own recruits

I like the shit out of Pflu (and his daughter) don't get me wrong. But we have no clue what he would've done for this program. Whether Helfrich to Kelly or most likely somewhere in between.

 

[UMGriz75]

I like the shit out of Pflu (and his daughter) don't get me wrong. But we have no clue what he would've done for this program. Whether Helfrich to Kelly or most likely somewhere in between.

Well, his second year was considerably better than his first, that's always a good indicator. Griz were exciting to watch, and the team tightly coached. That was a good indicator. The players liked Pflu and played hard for him on the field. That's always a good indicator. The team was arguably getting better game-after-game. That's always a good indicator. He was never down on UM players, publicly denouncing them in press conferences. That's always a good indicator. His coaching staff never demanded a meeting and "changes" as ours recently did. That's always a good indicator.

You know, for anyone actually looking for "clues" to the direction a program is going.

 

[CV Griz Fan]

I like the shit out of Pflu (and his daughter) don't get me wrong. But we have no clue what he would've done for this program. Whether Helfrich to Kelly or most likely somewhere in between.

Well, his second year was considerably better than his first, that's always a good indicator. Griz were exciting to watch, and the team tightly coached. That was a good indicator. The players liked Pflu and played hard for him on the field. That's always a good indicator. The team was arguably getting better game-after-game. That's always a good indicator. He was never down on UM players, publicly denouncing them in press conferences. That's always a good indicator. His coaching staff never demanded a meeting and "changes" as ours recently did. That's always a good indicator.

You know, for anyone actually looking for "clues" to the direction a program is going.

Good post 75. True, knowbody knows how Pflu would have done in '12,'13, '14 etc. but that's why you should only talk about what a coach HAS DONE. Pflu got to the Semi Finals in his second year. No matter what, that's impressive. IMO, Robin certainly would have struggled in '12 without JJ at the helm. Nobody really knows how much better he would have delt with the scholarship losses either...But IMO, he was a good coach. As far as winning or not winning with someone else's recruits, any good coach should improve the situation he inherits. That's what good coaches do. There are far too many examples of coaches turning programs around before they get all of their own recruits in place.

 

[sdgriz_24]

I like the shit out of Pflu (and his daughter) don't get me wrong. But we have no clue what he would've done for this program. Whether Helfrich to Kelly or most likely somewhere in between.

Well, his second year was considerably better than his first, that's always a good indicator. Griz were exciting to watch, and the team tightly coached. That was a good indicator. The players liked Pflu and played hard for him on the field. That's always a good indicator. The team was arguably getting better game-after-game. That's always a good indicator. He was never down on UM players, publicly denouncing them in press conferences. That's always a good indicator. His coaching staff never demanded a meeting and "changes" as ours recently did. That's always a good indicator.

You know, for anyone actually looking for "clues" to the direction a program is going.

Now go compare the rosters.. easy to coach great players

 

[sdgriz_24]

Just saying the best players on this team aren't upperclassmen.. Stitt is rebuilding. Pflu didn't have to

Edit: I'm not defending Stitt. I'm saying that at a certain point these "kids" are well compensated and should probably play like it. :?:

 

[bearister]

*Affect

Nope, "Effect" is correct.

Nope

Used in this sense, "affect" is a verb, "effect" is a noun. In this sentence "effect" is used as a noun, and is correct.

 

[PlayerRep]

For some reason, against my better judgement, I feel compelled to chime in on this. First I acknowledge Pflugrad was dedicated to UM and if it was his choice would probably still be here, and if he was UM football would have had a better last several years than we had. Having acknowledged that, the following must be said:

Pflugrad wanted to bring the "Oregon" system to UM. First Pflugrad had been fired from Oregon prior to coming back to UM as an assistant. No reason was ever giving for his being fired, but that is not a confidence builder

The "Oregon" system required fast athletes to run it - the kind FCS schools don't get. Pflugrad needed fast nimble O-Lineman, and the result is several years of ineffective offensive line. Blame Lurch all you want, but this started with Pflugrad.

The "Oregon" system was fun to watch at Oregon, and lifted them heights they had never seen, but ultimately never won the a National Championship. It wasn't sustainable, and ultimately led to firing of their coach.

Pflugrad lost both his O-coordinator and D-coordinator after 2011. Rumor was their was lots of friction with Jonathon Smith over Pflugrad overriding his play calls. Further rumor is this ended before the Weber State game, after which the Griz got on a winning roll.

Pflugrad replaced Smith with Timm Resenbach.

I'm am sure this will be disputed, but Pflugrad took several NFL players and an experienced roster in 2010 and turned in (relatively for circumstances) the worst season and worst coaching job in post 1985 Griz history.

5 years later, Pflugrad is an assistant coach at a junior college. Rosenbach is head coach at Adams College (and look at that record), while Smith is the O-coordinator at playoff bound UW.

I know people are upset at Pflugrad being fired, and God knows it had a negative impact on the program, but the Bottom line is I just don't see how a Pflugrad/Rosenbach Griz team trying to run the Oregon system would have put UM back in national contention the last 5 years. The real Griz decline started when Pflugrad was hired, exasperated when he was fired.

Where did Pflu ever say he wanted to run the Oregon system? I don't recall ever seeing that?

Pflu was let go by Oregon because he didn't see eye to eye with Chip Kelly. Kelly was not exactly a great guy or a coach who was doing everything right.

I'm not so sure that the Smith rumors were accurate. I asked Pflu about them once, and he reacted like he didn't know what I talking about.

It is often a positive when asst coaches leave for better jobs. FCS coaches encourage that.

No, UM, in just Pflu's second year, went to the semi's, and almost came back and got the win to go to the championship game. UM was bound for bigger and better things under Pflu.

Pflu is where he is now, solely because of Engstrom.

You need to get some facts before you make such a BS post like this one again. I don't know if you are an idiot, but your post shows signs of being written by an idiot. It is beyond far-fetched.

UM football has declined primarily because of Engstrom. If you paid any attention or knew what had occurred, you would understand.

I knew saying anything unflattering about Pflugrad I would get hammered, and I stepped in it so I can't complain. And if you are still wondering, yeah I am often an idiot. However a few comments:

About Oregon:

Pflugrad sprinkled a lot of humor in with his first official remarks as head coach, including a promise that his Griz — who went 14-1 last fall under Hauck — would be “very fast on offense, up-tempo and upbeat.”

http://billingsgazette.com/sports/college/pflugrad-says-griz-will-be-up-tempo-on-offense/article_fce75db2-fcfb-11de-ad1d-001cc4c03286.html

This year the Griz intend to spread the field and put pressure on the edges. Andrew Selle, like Reynolds a candidate for the Walter Payton Award, will trigger a more wide-open attack similar to what Oregon has used.

http://missoulian.com/sports/college/montana/football/pflugrad-finally-gets-chance-to-put-stamp-on-montana-football/article_e7f4c1f6-b30d-11df-96bf-001cc4c002e0.amp.html

It's just that the Grizzlies' fast-paced spread option offense, heavily touted by Pflugrad when he took the job, has yet to fully take root.

http://billingsgazette.com/sports/college/big-sky-conference/university-of-montana/football/rachac-defense-making-offensive-minded-pflugrad-look-good/article_f8696dfd-4e89-5c80-a533-4417b3764c9f.html

I don't know if that is enough references to Pflugrad running an "oregon style" offense?

Yes assistants leaving for FBS jobs is good - the point is the Griz were going to have new coordinators on both sides of the ball in 2012 unrelated to Pflugrad being let go. And with no JJ for QB 2012 was not going to be a championship year.

I'm not sure how Engstrom is responsible for where Pflugrad is now 5 years down the line. Pflugrad got a job the next year with Weber State. When they got fired from Weber State and Sears went to Sac State he didn't bring Pflugrad with him. Are you saying Engstrom got Sears and Pflugrad fired from Weber, and convinced Sac State not to hire Pflugrad? Pflugrad was a finalist for the Rocky Job in 2016 and didn't get it. Are you saying Engstrom stopped Rocky from hiring Pflugrad? I thought someone here recently said Engstrom gave Pflugrad a good recommendation after he fired him.

I get that being fired has negative connotations that makes schools look twice, but Pflugrad had a job the next year in the same conference. I think coaching hires are largely based on perceived performance on the field - Petrino at Louisville, Krammer at ISU are examples of fired/disgraced coaches who got another head coaching job. If Pflugrad is blaming Engstrom 5 years later for not being a head coach somewhere that might be his problem.

None if this is meant to defend Engstrom - he was a disaster for the University and for the football team.

Okay, how about this? You are a F-ing idiot, and so are you posts.

None of the quotes you provided said Pflu was going to do an Oregon offense. Oregon is not mentioned once in those quotes. Those quotes fit scores of college offenses, including Stitt's. Are you thinking Stitt is wanting to run the Oregon offense? Could you please tell us what the Oregon offense is?

Engstrom, by what he didn't say with Pflu's firing, and what he has said to ADs and presidents who called him after that, is responsible for Pflu not getting about a dozen jobs. This is a fact. Are you going to furnish some specific evidence to the contrary?

The Rocky job was a young man's job and Pflu didn't want it. Want to provide some specific info to the contrary?

Like I said, you are truly a F-ing idiot and an asshole. Have zero information. Just make up stuff and tell lies.

Get out of here with your BS.I don't like liars like you. Will be watching for you.

 

[EverettGriz]

Oooooo!! we got us a real life internet tough guy here, everybody!!

I'm sure Beer is shaking in his boots, PR.

 

[PlayerRep]

Oooooo!! we got us a real life internet tough guy here, everybody!!

I'm sure Beer is shaking in his boots, PR.

Hey Everett, have you figured out all of the athletic dept. people who think you are a total joke. A big yes man in general and for Engstrom. No nothing about sports. Not an athletic bone in your body. Sorry man, but you get zero respect from the UM athletic dept.

 

[EverettGriz]

Oooooo!! we got us a real life internet tough guy here, everybody!!

I'm sure Beer is shaking in his boots, PR.

Hey Everett, have you figured out all of the athletic dept. people who think you are a total joke. A big yes man in general and for Engstrom. No nothing about sports. Not an athletic bone in your body. Sorry man, but you get zero respect from the UM athletic dept.

hey playa rape, have you figured out that i dont give two shits what the people in the athletic department you dream of dry humping think of me (althogh i happen to know very well how respected i am by those there who matter)?

Have you figured out you're considered little more than a fucking joke by everyone you know (and even less than that on this board)?

As for whether I'm athletic, plesse continue to believe i am not. i have no interest in being the star attractions in one of your wet dreams.

 

[jodcon]

 

[getgrizzy]

Pflugrad wasn't here long enough for anyone to know what kind of coach he would've been. Maybe he'll get a head coaching job somewhere and we'll find out. He had one of the best defenses, if not the best, in 2011. I'm not sure how much credit he should get for that, but it came under his watch, so he should get some credit for it. He was dealt a blow when Selle went down in 2010.

There's no question, based on what Pflu said per Grizbeer posts, that he had a different offensive philosophy than Hauck and that it was a version of the spread offense.

I have a hard time assuming that he would've gone on to great things had he stayed. There's no way of know if he would've done any better than Mick did in 2012 without JJ at QB.

Delaney did a remarkable job his last two years here. He was 19-8, which is impressive considering what we were going through at the time and scholarship reduction. Pflugrad was 18-7 (13-7 with penalty), but had full compliment of scholarships. Stitt was 14-10 with scholarship reduction.

Pflugrad and Mick had nearly identical records, but Mick did it without four scholarships and on the heels of some damning problems.

 

[Ursa Major]

Oooooo!! we got us a real life internet tough guy here, everybody!!

I'm sure Beer is shaking in his boots, PR.

Hey Everett, have you figured out all of the athletic dept. people who think you are a total joke. A big yes man in general and for Engstrom. No nothing about sports. Not an athletic bone in your body. Sorry man, but you get zero respect from the UM athletic dept.

hey playa rape, have you figured out that i dont give two shits what the people in the athletic department you dream of dry humping think of me (althogh i happen to know very well how respected i am by those there who matter)?

Have you figured out you're considered little more than a fucking joke by everyone you know (and even less than that on this board)?

As for whether I'm athletic, plesse continue to believe i am not. i have no interest in being the star attractions in one of your wet dreams.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Note to self. Use the term "dry humping" more in 2017.

 

[tnt]

....The Rocky job was a young man's job and Pflu didn't want it. Want to provide some specific info to the contrary......

It was cetainly a better job than being an assistant at a JUCO...........

 

[griz71]

There is a small group of people on egriz whose primary purpose is to troll, and their primary effect is to derail threads with false claims, affecting the discussions by derailment, disinformation and distortion. Usually, they are so anxious to cause the effect, they manage to be wrong on almost all points, permanently affecting their credibility.

you need to listen to yourself, squirrel, and do something about it.

NOOOOO shit. Evidently, 75 doesn't own a mirror.[/quote

:clap: :thumb:

 

[UMGriz75]

There is a small group of people on egriz whose primary purpose is to troll, and their primary effect is to derail threads with false claims, affecting the discussions by derailment, disinformation and distortion. Usually, they are so anxious to cause the effect, they manage to be wrong on almost all points, permanently affecting their credibility.

you need to listen to yourself, squirrel, and do something about it.

NOOOOO shit. Evidently, 75 doesn't own a mirror.[/quote
:clap: :thumb:

Classic thread. I offer a topic of importance to collegiate athletics, one of the usual suspects tries to troll it by arguing about an improper use of a word, that he himself had gotten backwards, a note is made about such trolling, and three other people chime in just to insult and derail the thread. Do you suppose they will claim they were personally attacked, or just that the thread topic was "angry" and "bullying?"

 

[UMGriz75]

There is a small group of people on egriz whose primary purpose is to troll, and their primary effect is to derail threads with false claims, affecting the discussions by derailment, disinformation and distortion. Usually, they are so anxious to cause the effect, they manage to be wrong on almost all points, permanently affecting their credibility.

you need to listen to yourself, squirrel, and do something about it.

NOOOOO shit. Evidently, 75 doesn't own a mirror.[/quote
:clap: :thumb:

Classic thread. I offer a topic of importance to collegiate athletics, one of the usual suspects tries to troll it by arguing about an improper use of a word, that he himself had gotten backwards, a note is made about such trolling, and three other people chime in just to insult and derail the thread. Do you suppose they will claim they were personally attacked, or just that the thread topic was "angry" and "bullying?"