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the disppointments...

citygriz

Well-known member
1. hasquet. needs to grow his hair back. but maybe he is sick.

2. mcgillis. more a matter of our expectations than anything he's done. at woeful oregon state he was a sixth man--with one exceptional game at cal--and maybe that should be his role here. september, we were talking improved perimiter defense, thundering put-back dunks, athleticism like we hadn't seen at montana in years. truth be, he would not start at portland state.

3. elgin-taylor. we need strong senior leadership at the most important position on the team, and what do we get? a suspension.

4. michael taylor. exceptional high school player, co-big sky freshman of the year two years ago with a redshirt year under his belt for added maturity but so far little more than a spotty role player.

5. qvale. how this kid impressed me when i saw him at pacific last year. raw, but with evident athleticism and exquisite timing on blocking shots, yet almost more lost this year, with no offensive post game whatever. under the tutelage of tinks, i'd expect him to be farther along than he is.

6. bill evans. really thought this veteran coach was going to be a stabilizing influence who might bring a real defensive mind-set to the team, but that was not evident, at least at portland.

the pleasant surprises...

1. johnson. not a point guard but a real talent. just wish he were a freshman.

2. sharp. damned right he'd start for me. right now. at least based on the portland state game. kid battles.

3. selvig. real potential, far more than i thought based on a few high school reports that some of the native americans he played against were better than he. not at the collegiate level. selvig has the size and the basketball instincts that you just can't teach. i'd have him in my starting lineup right now.

4. recruiting. you can neve know, but cherry and woods both seem like the kinds of players we really need in this program, kids possibly thought to be beyond our reach. with them, digs and ward, we might have the foundation for a pretty good team down the road.

finally, the biggie--tinks. based on watching him in one game--and one game only--my impression is that he's far too collegial. he's the one that needs to step up, and assume command of this program. it's the hallmark of any great college coach that he's the boss out there, no questions asked, a la knight, wooden, heathcote, montgomery, krysko. yet at the very moment in the portland game that heathcote would have lit into his team with a thunder that would have reverberated off the walls of a near empty gym, tinks was out at mid-court, huddling during a time out for what seemed an eternity with the other coaches, prompting someone in my party to ask, "where's the coach?"

it's a question that's been ringing in my head ever since.
 
citygriz said:
3. selvig. real potential, far more than i thought based on a few high school reports that some of the native americans he played against were better than he. not at the collegiate level. selvig has the size and the basketball instincts that you just can't teach. i'd have him in my starting lineup right now.

I was one of the ones to report that after watching Selvig play in the State A tourney against Browning. He was third best on the court that night. Emphasis on that night. It was the only time I had ever seen him play and it was obvious he carried that team. There was a better rebounder for the Devils that night, though, he wasn't as tall as Selvig but he was pure muscle, very cut. He got everyone out of his way. Again, it was one game and high school at that. We know how some great high-schoolers transfer to the college game better than others, and it looks like Selvig will be one of those that does.

citygriz said:
yet at the very moment in the portland game that heathcote would have lit into his team with a thunder that would have reverberated off the walls of a near empty gym, tinks was out at mid-court, huddling during a time out for what seemed an eternity with the other coaches, prompting someone in my party to ask, "where's the coach?"

it's a question that's been ringing in my head ever since.

I noticed the same thing last year at the griz/cat game in Bozeman when the cats blew the griz out of the water. They huddled up away from the team as if to say, "Shoot, I'm out of ideas. What do we do now?"
 
Good Post! I have only seen the griz play a couple of games this year Mississipi Valley State (Live) and Portland State (on BSTV). I don't claim to know a ton about basketball but it seems that the griz have the players to be conference champs right now. I think Qvale was a better player as a freshmen than he is now. I think Coach Tinkle complicates things too much for the players and it seems to neutralize the size and athleticism advantage they have on most teams. The huskies dominated the griz on Sunday and I don't think it was because they have superior athletes with the exception of Jon Brockman.
 
PeauxRouge said:
citygriz said:
yet at the very moment in the portland game that heathcote would have lit into his team with a thunder that would have reverberated off the walls of a near empty gym, tinks was out at mid-court, huddling during a time out for what seemed an eternity with the other coaches, prompting someone in my party to ask, "where's the coach?"

it's a question that's been ringing in my head ever since.

I noticed the same thing last year at the griz/cat game in Bozeman when the cats blew the griz out of the water. They huddled up away from the team as if to say, "Shoot, I'm out of ideas. What do we do now?"
I think tinkle has always done this, but here was the discussion after the 'Cat game last year.

http://www.egriz.com/grizboard/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29796&p=374292&hilit=tinkle+timeout#p374292
 
I've never understood why the coaches can't have a quick meeting on the bench before they called the timeout instead of wasting the entire t.o. with the huddle at mid-court. Always baffled me and anyone that I've attended games with.
 
I don't understand it either. I haven't seen anyone else do this at any level. Granted, I don't get to see too many pro or college games live, but Tinks and Co. are the only ones I have seen do this.
 
PeauxRouge said:
I don't understand it either. I haven't seen anyone else do this at any level. Granted, I don't get to see too many pro or college games live, but Tinks and Co. are the only ones I have seen do this.

Did Larry K do this too? I seem to recall that he did. Not sure though.
 
mporter said:
PeauxRouge said:
I don't understand it either. I haven't seen anyone else do this at any level. Granted, I don't get to see too many pro or college games live, but Tinks and Co. are the only ones I have seen do this.

Did Larry K do this too? I seem to recall that he did. Not sure though.
He did, although seemingly with better results. :)
 
citygriz said:
1. hasquet. needs to grow his hair back. but maybe he is sick.

2. mcgillis. more a matter of our expectations than anything he's done. at woeful oregon state he was a sixth man--with one exceptional game at cal--and maybe that should be his role here. september, we were talking improved perimiter defense, thundering put-back dunks, athleticism like we hadn't seen at montana in years. truth be, he would not start at portland state.

3. elgin-taylor. we need strong senior leadership at the most important position on the team, and what do we get? a suspension.

4. michael taylor. exceptional high school player, co-big sky freshman of the year two years ago with a redshirt year under his belt for added maturity but so far little more than a spotty role player.

5. qvale. how this kid impressed me when i saw him at pacific last year. raw, but with evident athleticism and exquisite timing on blocking shots, yet almost more lost this year, with no offensive post game whatever. under the tutelage of tinks, i'd expect him to be farther along than he is.

6. bill evans. really thought this veteran coach was going to be a stabilizing influence who might bring a real defensive mind-set to the team, but that was not evident, at least at portland.

the pleasant surprises...

1. johnson. not a point guard but a real talent. just wish he were a freshman.

2. sharp. damned right he'd start for me. right now. at least based on the portland state game. kid battles.

3. selvig. real potential, far more than i thought based on a few high school reports that some of the native americans he played against were better than he. not at the collegiate level. selvig has the size and the basketball instincts that you just can't teach. i'd have him in my starting lineup right now.

4. recruiting. you can neve know, but cherry and woods both seem like the kinds of players we really need in this program, kids possibly thought to be beyond our reach. with them, digs and ward, we might have the foundation for a pretty good team down the road.

finally, the biggie--tinks. based on watching him in one game--and one game only--my impression is that he's far too collegial. he's the one that needs to step up, and assume command of this program. it's the hallmark of any great college coach that he's the boss out there, no questions asked, a la knight, wooden, heathcote, montgomery, krysko. yet at the very moment in the portland game that heathcote would have lit into his team with a thunder that would have reverberated off the walls of a near empty gym, tinks was out at mid-court, huddling during a time out for what seemed an eternity with the other coaches, prompting someone in my party to ask, "where's the coach?"

it's a question that's been ringing in my head ever since.

you had a party and didn't invite me?
 
Sadly Tinks does not have the DNA to fire up the boys. If you do not have the fire in your belly you surely won't light one in the players. HIs MO seems to make sure all the players like him. He needs to get in the players grill and let them know what they are not doing and how to rectify the situation. Unfortunately he appears to coach by asking everyone to raise their hand if they agree on his decision. You can recruit all the talent you want but if you cannot get them to buy into your system and unite as a team with leadership you will not be successful. I don't think you will change Tink's personality. He is what is is. A genuine nice guy.
 
Unfortunately, when genuinely nice people try to act differently, it doesn't seem to work out very often.

There is no doubt that Tinks is a genuinely nice guy. One of the really good guys in sports. I hope he finds a way to get some intensity on this team.
 
Sorry, bobaloo, but every time someone bemoans a lack of “fire in the belly” or “fire” of any kind, I’m gonna refute it. A coach does not have to get all worked up to be an effective coach.

I’m not defending Tinkle by saying that. I’m defending John Wooden and many, many other great coaches, including my grandfather, who always maintained a calm demeanor but still won basketball games.

Tinkle should be judged on his success (or lack of success) after this season is over. But he shouldn’t be judged based on how red his face gets during a game.
 
I'm not sure that how a coach acts during a game is as important as what he does during practice, between games. I've never been to one of Tinkle's practices, so I'm surely not going to remark on his demeanor in that venue. However, I can say that his teams never seem to perform up to the expectations of the recruiting hype and supposed talent of the various members of those teams. So, where does the problem lie ... ???
 
Well, '68, I guess that's the great thing about sports. We don't have to diagnose the whys and wherefores. We just have to look at the W's and L's. It's so much simpler and more clear-cut than real life!
 
Fire in the belly does'nt necessarily translate into yelling. It can mean showing passion and intensity for something you really care about. It is another form of teaching to instill a philosophy in your pupils without scaring them half to death. Everybody responds to stimuli differently. In order to succeed at any endeavor you have to have the respect of your constituents. Wooden was very good at that
 
AllWeatherFan said:
Sorry, bobaloo, but every time someone bemoans a lack of “fire in the belly” or “fire” of any kind, I’m gonna refute it. A coach does not have to get all worked up to be an effective coach.

I’m not defending Tinkle by saying that. I’m defending John Wooden and many, many other great coaches, including my grandfather, who always maintained a calm demeanor but still won basketball games.

Tinkle should be judged on his success (or lack of success) after this season is over. But he shouldn’t be judged based on how red his face gets during a game.
Totally agree with you Allweather- in fact the best example you could use is the '02 Season and the deal Holst made with the players - he would stop yelling and let them play offense if they played defense, and the result was a trip to the NCAA's

http://www.missoulian.com/articles/2002/03/13/export7493.txt

As GrizPack and others have said, Tinkle isn't really an in your face kind of guy, so he needs to find an approach that is genuine to his personality, but also effective with the players. It might take a terrible year for WT to find a style that fits him and the team, it might take new players, and WT may never find the combination to be successful (and no I do not consider hanging around .500 with this program to be successful), but trying to be someone you are not is not the answer either.
 
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