The Case for an Improved Record in '12 with JJ

[PlayerRep]

How about answering a pertinent speculative question: How many games would the 2012 Griz won with Pflu as coach without JJ over what MD did without JJ.?

The case for an Improved record in "12 with Pflu:
9 wins plus playoff first round win.
Same offensive scheme and no bonehead HC failures, its a no-brainer.

Can't answer, as both coaches are friends of mine, especially Pflu.

Question for you. How did Delaney double wins and halve losses in '13 with JJ? In fact, 5 more wins wins with JJ--just as I said it would have been in '12.

Extremely weak schedule played a role.

Nope, essentially the same schedule. Liberty, Ida St and No Colo in '12. PSU, CP, Davis and OPS in '13. I'd say '13 was actually a bit tougher. PSU, CP and Davis may have been the 3 toughest teams in that group of 7.

 

[PlayerRep]

PR,
Although I admire your persistence, I really don't see the point of a thread talking about a hypothetical performance by an ineligible player in games that were played two years in the past.

It doesn't surprise me that you wouldn't care about a substantive thread. I see that you prefer to spend your time in the Guy in Griz Hat Caught Ball thread. Even in that thread, you don't seem to be providing much--but at least you're trying. Keep up the good work.

Also, how is getgrizzy ever going to learn anything about football, is somebody doesn't try to help him?

Actually PR, I agree with you. I think the outcomes in those games would have been different with JJ playing. He is a phenomenal player. I am happy to have him leading our offense next year. I think he will have a great year and put up great numbers. He is going to win us a lot of games next year. I think the games he helps us win next year will outnumber the hypothetical games he would have won in 2012. I just don't see the point of bringing up that lost year. It is over. Better left in the past. I guess I just don't see it as a substantive thread. There aren't many substantive threads here. I think we can both agree that we are glad to have JJ on the griz and he has been through a lot and should have a phenomenal senior year.

Okay, then we agree, except for your thinking this is not a substantive thread. It is very much so. And I now like your posting in the Guy in Griz Hat Caught the Ball thread.

 

[CV Griz Fan]

How about answering a pertinent speculative question: How many games would the 2012 Griz won with Pflu as coach without JJ over what MD did without JJ.?

The case for an Improved record in "12 with Pflu:
9 wins plus playoff first round win.
Same offensive scheme and no bonehead HC failures, its a no-brainer.

Can't answer, as both coaches are friends of mine, especially Pflu.

Question for you. How did Delaney double wins and halve losses in '13 with JJ? In fact, 5 more wins wins with JJ--just as I said it would have been in '12.

Extremely weak schedule played a role.

Nope, essentially the same schedule. Liberty, Ida St and No Colo in '12. PSU, CP, Davis and OPS in '13. I'd say '13 was actually a bit tougher. PSU, CP and Davis may have been the 3 toughest teams in that group of 7.

Well I know ASU and ND were a lot weaker in 2013. Plus add OK Panhandle St. That's 3 more softer opponents right there.

 

[PlayerRep]

Can't answer, as both coaches are friends of mine, especially Pflu.

Question for you. How did Delaney double wins and halve losses in '13 with JJ? In fact, 5 more wins wins with JJ--just as I said it would have been in '12.

Extremely weak schedule played a role.

Nope, essentially the same schedule. Liberty, Ida St and No Colo in '12. PSU, CP, Davis and OPS in '13. I'd say '13 was actually a bit tougher. PSU, CP and Davis may have been the 3 toughest teams in that group of 7.

Well I know ASU and ND were a lot weaker in 2013. Plus add OK Panhandle St. That's 3 more softer opponents right there.

But Cal Poly, Davis and PSU were much stronger than No. Colo., Ida. St. and Liberty. I think the '13 schedule was tougher than the '12 schedule.

 

[grizcountry420]

.............................Talk about living in the past





:?

 

[getgrizzy]

this is quite the piece of work. i'm not sure if he's trying to address my main point from the other thread or not. it doesn't.

 

[dupuyer griz]

and does anyone really feel like we would be in great position this year if he had played in 12? We would have a "probably" first year starter coming into a bear of a season. I have no doubt that with time we would be in a great spot with these guys playing but I have to say I think we would be in trouble this year if his eligibility had run out last year.

True, but the team would be much better off this year without JJ than they were in '12, or do you not agree?

It's apples and oranges to me. There is no way to compare what is/was happening without just stating opinions. If I had my way JJ wouldn't have been able to take a redshirt in 12' because he shouldn't have been played at all as a true freshman. I think more than anything about 12' was what the school and program went through. It wasn't JJ with an ACL tear it was a team a program a community and a state in shambles left to pick up the pieces of years of questionable tactics that finally came to a head all at once. Bottom line, yes 12' is different with JJ, but if we had just convinced Jameis Winston to come here we would be a lot better too. I just don't think that you can stand on this side of the line and make any difference. Who knows what is was and will be if things were different. Bottom line, a loss is a loss and that's all that matters. You know we would be undefeated if we always scored more than the opponent as well.

 

[PlayerRep]

and does anyone really feel like we would be in great position this year if he had played in 12? We would have a "probably" first year starter coming into a bear of a season. I have no doubt that with time we would be in a great spot with these guys playing but I have to say I think we would be in trouble this year if his eligibility had run out last year.

True, but the team would be much better off this year without JJ than they were in '12, or do you not agree?

It's apples and oranges to me. There is no way to compare what is/was happening without just stating opinions. If I had my way JJ wouldn't have been able to take a redshirt in 12' because he shouldn't have been played at all as a true freshman. I think more than anything about 12' was what the school and program went through. It wasn't JJ with an ACL tear it was a team a program a community and a state in shambles left to pick up the pieces of years of questionable tactics that finally came to a head all at once. Bottom line, yes 12' is different with JJ, but if we had just convinced Jameis Winston to come here we would be a lot better too. I just don't think that you can stand on this side of the line and make any difference. Who knows what is was and will be if things were different. Bottom line, a loss is a loss and that's all that matters. You know we would be undefeated if we always scored more than the opponent as well.

Sorry, this thread is about only 1 variable, i.e. JJ as the qb in '12. If you want to start a thread about Jameis Winston coming to UM, have at it. I find it interesting that so many of you can't seem to stick to the topics at hand, even briefly. You need to start a discussion about something else, or create a straw man to attack. Must be internet A.D.D.

 

[grizatwork]

Statistically speaking, your variable (JJ playing) would only be able to be measured if you could keep all the other variables constant. From a statistical standpoint, this would not be a valid or reliable conclusion.

 

[getgrizzy]

its much easier and sensible to just say that we had a run of bad luck in 12, a run of good luck in 13 and that j.j. is a better q.b. than s.s.h. and mckinney.

the run of bad luck probably kept us from being 7-4 or better in 12 and the good luck in 13 probably kept us from being 8-4 or worse.

 

[1Griz_Fan]

Making this case is rather pointless yet let's entertain the fact that the Griz lost to NAU and EWU with JJ too so what does that say...could it be that this is a team game and the main point is the Griz should have only lost one of those four games regardless who was at QB.

Ah well, I look forward to reading the thread entitled; The case for an improved record in '12 with Dave Dickinson and Don Read. Carry on living in the past playing out all the coulda, woulda, shoulda's. It's not like there is anything better to do with your time, right PR...

 

[PlayerRep]

Statistically speaking, your variable (JJ playing) would only be able to be measured if you could keep all the other variables constant. From a statistical standpoint, this would not be a valid or reliable conclusion.

The only variable is JJ. We're talking football, performance and wins, not stat analysis per se. JJ's presence in '13 pretty much proved the point anyway.

 

[PlayerRep]

its much easier and sensible to just say that we had a run of bad luck in 12, a run of good luck in 13 and that j.j. is a better q.b. than s.s.h. and mckinney.

the run of bad luck probably kept us from being 7-4 or better in 12 and the good luck in 13 probably kept us from being 8-4 or worse.

Nope, it's much better to recognize that what really happened is that JJ played in '13 and didn't play in '12--and UM won 5 more games in '13. To the extent there was significant good or bad luck, the improved luck came with JJ at the helm and in large part as a result of him being at the helm and leading the team. It's really pretty simple, if you know anything about the game.

 

[PlayerRep]

Making this case is rather pointless yet let's entertain the fact that the Griz lost to NAU and EWU with JJ too so what does that say...could it be that this is a team game and the main point is the Griz should have only lost one of those four games regardless who was at QB.

Ah well, I look forward to reading the thread entitled; The case for an improved record in '12 with Dave Dickinson and Don Read. Carry on living in the past playing out all the coulda, woulda, shoulda's. It's not like there is anything better to do with your time, right PR...

Making a case like this is what people do on a football message board, especially in the off season. No, I have nothing better to do with my time, other than maybe bill at $500 an hour.

 

[horribilisfan8184]

How about answering a pertinent speculative question: How many games would the 2012 Griz won with Pflu as coach without JJ over what MD did without JJ.?

The case for an Improved record in "12 with Pflu:
9 wins plus playoff first round win.
Same offensive scheme and no bonehead HC failures, its a no-brainer.

Can't answer, as both coaches are friends of mine, especially Pflu.

Question for you. How did Delaney double wins and halve losses in '13 with JJ? In fact, 5 more wins wins with JJ--just as I said it would have been in '12.

I don't think it is honestly debatable that JJ was the best QB in 2011, would have been the best in 2012 if eligible, and was the best in 2013. (Or that MD was "less bad" at the job in 2013.)

My point is quite similar, that both the 2012 and 2013 seasons would have had more wins with Pflu as head coach. I can appreciate why you might wish to keep aside of that debate.

 

[PlayerRep]

How about answering a pertinent speculative question: How many games would the 2012 Griz won with Pflu as coach without JJ over what MD did without JJ.?

The case for an Improved record in "12 with Pflu:
9 wins plus playoff first round win.
Same offensive scheme and no bonehead HC failures, its a no-brainer.

Can't answer, as both coaches are friends of mine, especially Pflu.

Question for you. How did Delaney double wins and halve losses in '13 with JJ? In fact, 5 more wins wins with JJ--just as I said it would have been in '12.

I don't think it is honestly debatable that JJ was the best QB in 2011, would have been the best in 2012 if eligible, and was the best in 2013. (Or that MD was "less bad" at the job in 2013.)

My point is quite similar, that both the 2012 and 2013 seasons would have had more wins with Pflu as head coach. I can appreciate why you might wish to keep aside of that debate.

More wins, perhaps? If I could take either JJ or Pflu for '12, I would take JJ.

 

[get'em_griz]

How about answering a pertinent speculative question: How many games would the 2012 Griz won with Pflu as coach without JJ over what MD did without JJ.?

The case for an Improved record in "12 with Pflu:
9 wins plus playoff first round win.
Same offensive scheme and no bonehead HC failures, its a no-brainer.

Can't answer, as both coaches are friends of mine, especially Pflu.

Question for you. How did Delaney double wins and halve losses in '13 with JJ? In fact, 5 more wins wins with JJ--just as I said it would have been in '12.

I don't think it is honestly debatable that JJ was the best QB in 2011, would have been the best in 2012 if eligible, and was the best in 2013. (Or that MD was "less bad" at the job in 2013.)

My point is quite similar, that both the 2012 and 2013 seasons would have had more wins with Pflu as head coach. I can appreciate why you might wish to keep aside of that debate.

More wins, perhaps? If I could take either JJ or Pflu for '12, I would take JJ.

I have to go with horribilis on this one. I agree with you PR that if JJ played in '12, we would have had a few more wins. But like horribilis said, Pflugrad probably could have coached the team to 1 or 2 wins in the games we lost in '12 without JJ. Coaching is always a huge factor that I'd rather have going for us instead of just one or two star players. Good coaches bring out the best in the entire team.

 

[SaskGriz]

I have condensed PlayerReps statistical analysis; if everything wasn't the way it was it would all be different.

True, and it would be 4/5 games different. That was the point. Many Americans would understand that.

I suspect they would, most of the Americans I know are very intelligent people, don't see your point unless it was a shot at my being Canadian.

If it was designed as an insult to my nationality, you are very mature. Do you often use the "Liar Liar pants on fire" defense in court? I am assuming your are a lawyer as you claimed you billed $500 per hour and I am pretty sure fluffer on a gay porn film doesn't pay that well. The latter being the only job you seem qualified for other than attorney.

 

[dupuyer griz]

I have condensed PlayerReps statistical analysis; if everything wasn't the way it was it would all be different.

True, and it would be 4/5 games different. That was the point. Many Americans would understand that.

I suspect they would, most of the Americans I know are very intelligent people, don't see your point unless it was a shot at my being Canadian.

If it was designed as an insult to my nationality, you are very mature. Do you often use the "Liar Liar pants on fire" defense in court? I am assuming your are a lawyer as you claimed you billed $500 per hour and I am pretty sure fluffer on a gay porn film doesn't pay that well. The latter being the only job you seem qualified for other than attorney.

A more factual statement does not exist.

 

[Umista]

In the end after all the banter it is a simple fact JJ is an excellent QB. Our offense scheme is a bit south so to speak but this kid can play. Without him we are very average. We have the run first mentality and perhaps we win the world cup but this fan prefers to see the ball in the air a tad bit more. I see us doing well in 2014 and like I mentioned we could win it all.......