The 3 players the 2013 Griz need

[granitegriz]

This year was not about a poor showing by WRs. Remember back to the spring game under the lights. If the WRs had beaten the defender by even an inch, JJ found them and did so every play. It was like a jail break (no pun intended)...all WRs running vertical patterns. Haynes, Saylor, Carver, Walcott, Henderson, Craig/Pierson, and Burke will be just fine and that is a promise. And No does mean No. But Yes means Yes!!!

 

[AZGrizFan]

Hard to know how talented the wr's are when QB and OC dont put them in a position to make many plays.

Yep. :evil: :evil: :evil:

 

[krammer]

well thought out post b/w...i will make an this overall statement regarding skilled positions and wonder if others see it this way....we do not have the speed necessary at c/b and wide receiver...in looking back at every game , it is just obvious....the griz need to recruit speed and more speed....that was why we played off receivers and also why we could not get spereration with our own receivers....the better teams in the big sky are faster........imo....or if you will more athletic and faster.....it showed in the films....

 

[grizfan47]

This year was not about a poor showing by WRs. Remember back to the spring game under the lights. If the WRs had beaten the defender by even an inch, JJ found them and did so every play. It was like a jail break (no pun intended)...all WRs running vertical patterns. Haynes, Saylor, Carver, Walcott, Henderson, Craig/Pierson, and Burke will be just fine and that is a promise. And No does mean No. But Yes means Yes!!!

Great point. With JJ moving the team they were lights out. You could see the huge drop off with the other QBs although they all showed some promise. Little did we know they would be called on so soon. JJ was clearly the guy.

I personally think JJ will be found innocent of the charges and I see no reason why he wouldn't or couldn't return to the team. If there is another force at work to keep him off the team if he is found innocent then there are some much bigger issues to be dealt with at UM. That will be very disappointing to say the least.

 

[mikegriz]

Thanks Brint. Your analysis sounds good (though I think there's a snowball's chance in hell of ever seeing JJ again). I only have one question. What about CB???

I actually think we're OK at cornerback for a few reasons:

1. Our CBs this year were young and untested of Murray, Dennard, Goodwin, and Harris none had started a game. Murray and Goodwin will be seniors next year and in many cases we see JuCo kids make tremendous improvements in the off-season (Roots and Dodson recently) so I'm expecting Goodwin to become our #1 guy this year. Dennard and Harris were young, they'll return with a valuable years worth of experience.

2. If you look at where the pass coverage was burned the most, it wasn't the corners, it was the middle. Sure our corners played soft and did give up catches underneath, sometimes at a frustrating pace, however our corners, I'd be willing to bet, were beat far fewer times than our safeties.

3. As others have mentioned, not until later in the season did we see more aggressive cover. It seemed like starting with Weber and then MSU you'd see Murray and Goodwin playing more press. Up until then there'd be shell or a cover-3 where the CBs are out there a lot playing a soft zone by design.

4. I think that our fanbase is having a "Tru hangover" as in - we expect all of our corners to be NFL talent now, when in fact a player like Tru is a once in a decade (or more) kind of guy an FCS team lands. I think there's vast room for improvement with this CB group, but I think we need to realize they weren't beat as bad as the safeties and we're not going to just find shut down corners that often like we had with Tru.

Thanks for the additional insight. I hear ya on the Tru (and Roots) hangover! All you say above makes sense with maybe the exception of your faith in our existing talent. I've sworn-off calling players out by name, but I do get tired of seeing a cornerback standing there, with their hands in their figurative pockets, like "Hmmm...somebody just tackled a guy right here in front of me." I don't know maybe it's all the scheme and not the talent.

 

[BWahlberg]

well thought out post b/w...i will make an this overall statement regarding skilled positions and wonder if others see it this way....we do not have the speed necessary at c/b and wide receiver...in looking back at every game , it is just obvious....the griz need to recruit speed and more speed....that was why we played off receivers and also why we could not get spereration with our own receivers....the better teams in the big sky are faster........imo....or if you will more athletic and faster.....it showed in the films....

I think that at WR the "team speed" might not be the greatest but I do think that Henderson and Haynes have great top speed, as does Naccarato. In years past the WR corps as a group usually had just 1 burner b/c if you've got top speed as a WR, you're usually not playing in the FCS. I think back to the 2008/09 teams and Marc was really the only top speed guy we had who was a major contributor. If Ellis and/or Sean can step up and become the go-to guy that's the lights out/big play WR then I don't see that as a "gap" on the team right now.

Speed at corner is very difficult to obtain at this level, at level, I believe. I look at our four main corners and I see them all as tremendously athletic guys but no "top speed" dudes. Again, I look back to former CB groupings and outside of Tru/DLo last year we'd once again have maybe one 4.4-40 kind of guy and the rest would be just a step slower (Roots was but he played great last year).

It may be an unfair generalization at skill positions but it struck me that Bobby always wanted athletic and tough, where Pflu wanted finesse and speed. Both showed that each style could win. However Bobby was able to do it over and over, meanwhile the finesse and speed players Pflu recruited, especially on D this year, had a rough season. It's not to say it won't work or should be scrapped - it's just my observation.

 

[BWahlberg]

Thanks for the additional insight. I hear ya on the Tru (and Roots) hangover! All you say above makes sense with maybe the exception of your faith in our existing talent. I've sworn-off calling players out by name, but I do get tired of seeing a cornerback standing there, with their hands in their figurative pockets, like "Hmmm...somebody just tackled a guy right here in front of me." I don't know maybe it's all the scheme and not the talent.

Hope springs eternal with me, lol.

 

[mikegriz]

JJ is very close with the team still. Still goes to the university. And he is planning on coming back. word from him is spring drills!...

I was talking with someone yesterday about the concern/perception of a lacking coaching staff and got to thinking about the 2004 Griz. At that point a lot of fans either rightly or wrongly thought that Hauck and Phen were still learning the ropes to calling a good game but Ochs was the game-changer that year. His ability to read defenses at the line and lead the team on the field was huge. I can't help but wonder if JJ could do the same.

I hate to get my hopes up on this though, he's currently not on the team and while we all can speculate on the outcome of his trial we just don't know right now. And if there's any doubt left (mis trial for example) I can't imagine they'd let him back here. The chance of his return has to be pretty slim, I'd guess.

Not wishing the guy any ill will in any way, but I think guys are setting us and themselves up for serious disappointment with all this JJ talk. I'll be shocked and amazed if JJ ever sees the football field again, especially as a Griz.

 

[BWahlberg]

JJ is very close with the team still. Still goes to the university. And he is planning on coming back. word from him is spring drills!...

I was talking with someone yesterday about the concern/perception of a lacking coaching staff and got to thinking about the 2004 Griz. At that point a lot of fans either rightly or wrongly thought that Hauck and Phen were still learning the ropes to calling a good game but Ochs was the game-changer that year. His ability to read defenses at the line and lead the team on the field was huge. I can't help but wonder if JJ could do the same.

I hate to get my hopes up on this though, he's currently not on the team and while we all can speculate on the outcome of his trial we just don't know right now. And if there's any doubt left (mis trial for example) I can't imagine they'd let him back here. The chance of his return has to be pretty slim, I'd guess.

Not wishing the guy any ill will in any way, but I think guys are setting us and themselves up for serious disappointment with all this JJ talk. I'll be shocked and amazed if JJ ever sees the football field again, especially as a Griz.

Nah I get you mikegriz, I'm in the same boat and I realize I probably put blood in the water by originally suggesting JJ as an option pending a positive outcome for him in his trial.

 

[mikegriz]

JJ is very close with the team still. Still goes to the university. And he is planning on coming back. word from him is spring drills!...

I was talking with someone yesterday about the concern/perception of a lacking coaching staff and got to thinking about the 2004 Griz. At that point a lot of fans either rightly or wrongly thought that Hauck and Phen were still learning the ropes to calling a good game but Ochs was the game-changer that year. His ability to read defenses at the line and lead the team on the field was huge. I can't help but wonder if JJ could do the same.

I hate to get my hopes up on this though, he's currently not on the team and while we all can speculate on the outcome of his trial we just don't know right now. And if there's any doubt left (mis trial for example) I can't imagine they'd let him back here. The chance of his return has to be pretty slim, I'd guess.

Not wishing the guy any ill will in any way, but I think guys are setting us and themselves up for serious disappointment with all this JJ talk. I'll be shocked and amazed if JJ ever sees the football field again, especially as a Griz.

Nah I get you mikegriz, I'm in the same boat and I realize I probably put blood in the water by originally suggesting JJ as an option pending a positive outcome for him in his trial.

Wasn't taking a swipe at you by the way, just a general observation. Many reasons why having JJ come back would be cool - if for no other reason that to stuff a rag in the mouth of she-who-must-not-be-named. But I agree with the folks who think a JJ comeback is a long shot even if he's acquitted, which is probably also a long shot.

 

[Uncle Si]

You forgot that we need an outside linebacker that has cover corner speed and sober corner skills because our dipshit DC constantly has the OLB covering the slot leading to getting burned many times over. f*** I can't take it anymore with these clowns coming back. I'm on tilt. Breaks my heart to watch the GRIZ not get the best coaching.

It's called zone defense. EVERY team in the nation uses it, the exact same way we do.

Oh man. Enlighten me. I had no idea. You see the thing is not every team stays in the same base zone defense on 2nd and long and 3rd and long. They bring in nickel and dime. But not us, we stay in base and get burned over and over.

 

[Uncle Si]

If JJ is innocent there is absolutely no reason he shouldn't play.

 

[Hammer]

If JJ is innocent there is absolutely no reason he shouldn't play.

yup. :thumb:

 

[kurtismichael]

I've heard so many opinions on here and in the real world about whether, 1. JJ will be found innocent or guilty and 2. JJ, if found innocent, will be back as a Griz or won't be. Everyone seems to have inside information. I find that odd since the trial hasn't started yet and do some of these "insiders" know the jurors?

I guess we will find out sometime in February or March. I can say one thing I bet Gwen is having visions of journalism awards dancing in her head at the thought of the trial starting.

That said if JJ is found innocent I hope he does come back to the Griz and wins the national championship and the Walter Payton Award. I bet Gwen would love those apples.

 

[George Ferguson]

I have the same fear Brint does. I fear that even if JJ is found innocent, that UM will re-instate the explusion that was handed down but then suspended after he was charged. Remember, JJ was unanimously expelled BEFORE he was officially charged with a crime.

 

[Uncle Si]

I have the same fear Brint does. I fear that even if JJ is found innocent, that UM will re-instate the explusion that was handed down but then suspended after he was charged. Remember, JJ was unanimously expelled BEFORE he was officially charged with a crime.

Then I hope he sues the socks off of Engstrom and the U

 

[uofmman1122]

I have the same fear Brint does. I fear that even if JJ is found innocent, that UM will re-instate the explusion that was handed down but then suspended after he was charged. Remember, JJ was unanimously expelled BEFORE he was officially charged with a crime.

That would make national news and make UM look horrible.

If he's innocent, they have absolutely no reason not to let him play, especially after Engstrom went to all the trouble of telling everyone he wasn't suspended after all.

If its a hung jury, I could maybe see it, but not if he's acquitted.

 

[RobGriz]

I have the same fear Brint does. I fear that even if JJ is found innocent, that UM will re-instate the explusion that was handed down but then suspended after he was charged. Remember, JJ was unanimously expelled BEFORE he was officially charged with a crime.

Then I hope he sues the socks off of Engstrom and the U

THISx100000

 

[George Ferguson]

like i said, it's a completely different process that has nothing to do with athletics. the UM honor board expelled JJ from the school, not just the football team, and they did so before he'd ever been charged with a crime. JJ had an appeal left, but then he was charged, and however it works, his legal proceedings superceded the expulsion, which allowed him to enter school this fall. i would think it would be a travesty too, but would not be surprised if the expulsion process goes forward soon after JJ walks out of the courtroom a free man. if that's how his trail turns out. lately, nothing UM admin dies surprises me.

 

[RobGriz]

like i said, it's a completely different process that has nothing to do with athletics. the UM honor board expelled JJ from the school, not just the football team, and they did so before he'd ever been charged with a crime. JJ had an appeal left, but then he was charged, and however it works, his legal proceedings superceded the expulsion, which allowed him to enter school this fall. i would think it would be a travesty too, but would not be surprised if the expulsion process goes forward soon after JJ walks out of the courtroom a free man. if that's how his trail turns out. lately, nothing UM admin dies surprises me.

Not saying your wrong but; expulsion without cause on the grounds of pending legal litigation for which you are found innocent+impending lawsuit=JJ the millionaire.