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Sugar bomb; 2012 QB edition

Give Swogger some credit - he took over a team that was supposed to feature an NFL-bound Lex Hilliard, instead Lex tears his achillies (sp) and Swogger with a pretty limited overall offense gets the team all the way to the semi finals and comes up a drive short of getting to the 'natty.

Now I'll admit - A LOT of 2006's success is because of a superior defense, but Swogs at least got the team that far.

OverthRoper though... yeah...
 
BWahlberg said:
Give Swogger some credit - he took over a team that was supposed to feature an NFL-bound Lex Hilliard, instead Lex tears his achillies (sp) and Swogger with a pretty limited overall offense gets the team all the way to the semi finals and comes up a drive short of getting to the 'natty.

Now I'll admit - A LOT of 2006's success is because of a superior defense, but Swogs at least got the team that far.

OverthRoper though... yeah...

BW - still a vivid memory of that interception in the waning moments of that UMASS game.... but yeah he did do some good things that season..... i'd say since Dave's days tho that Swogger was #3 at the bottom of the qb list(Roper worst, then Washington, then Swogger)..... which really puts into perspective how fortunate the Griz have been since 93 with the likes of Dickenson, Ah Yat, Miller, Edwards, Ochs, Berquist, and last season JJ......
 
I'd agree with your "bottom 3", FW.

I think Washington had the least overall talent. Roper simply had no heart and no desire, so he's at the bottom of my list. Swogs didn't have the most talent in the world, but at least he had heart and desire, and as Brint points out, used it to help carry the Griz one drive short of another NC appearance.
 
TheTruth said:
ever heard the quote "ASSUMING makes an ASS out of YOU and me"... why dont you all including BW stop making proclaims and so called "facts" when really you have no idea...



Heres a thought, practice starts monday. A lot of questions will be answered and it will save us all reading meaningless garbage on this site.

Thanks and thank god actual football is starting soon :thumb:
Ever heard the quote "better to remain silent and thought a fool then to speak out and remove all doubt"?
 
EverettGriz said:
I'd agree with your "bottom 3", FW.

I think Washington had the least overall talent. Roper simply had no heart and no desire, so he's at the bottom of my list. Swogs didn't have the most talent in the world, but at least he had heart and desire, and as Brint points out, used it to help carry the Griz one drive short of another NC appearance.

yep Everett, and like BW points out had Lex been around that season it probably would have been a lot easier for Swogger..... he probably would have put up some incredible #'s with Lex back there.... but that INT is what i remember him for lol..... also i think had he had 2 seasons here instead of just the 1 he would have settled in more (somewhat like Ochs did in 03 & 04).....
 
BWahlberg said:
TheTruth said:
ever heard the quote "ASSUMING makes an ASS out of YOU and me"... why dont you all including BW stop making proclaims and so called "facts" when really you have no idea...



Heres a thought, practice starts monday. A lot of questions will be answered and it will save us all reading meaningless garbage on this site.

Thanks and thank god actual football is starting soon :thumb:

What assumption did I make to start this thread, point that out please. I'm talking about the timing of thrusting a new QB in before fall camp is much better than when the season starts or during it.

Freudian slip, perhaps? :? :? :?
 
thebummerblitz said:
grizfan1984 said:
Gustafson is NOT ready. Kemp is not on the team unless someone can clarify that he has been reinstated even if he has he is NOT the answer, Malik is NOT coming to the Griz he is already enrolled at a JC and is aiming for a 1A scholarship offer, I live about 20 miles from Dallas Lloyds hometown or Pleasant Grove Utah and from the people I have talked to who know the family of him still say he is going to be at Stanford, Robbie Picazo will not leave Stanford that is his school and even turned down several offers to walk-on their, and Coach Delaney says we will not be getting a transfer so unless its news to him then we will be running with 2 QB's Shay Smithwick-Hann and Trent McKinney, maybe we can have a former QB in high school switch positions and help out?

Connor Lebsock? I'm sure there are others.
Rominger played QB in high school, and though he was on a pretty bad Sentinel team lead the state AA in rushing his senior year - from the QB position. He could probably play some wildcat in a pinch.

Hermanson played QB in high school as well, not sure the Griz can afford to move him from safety though.
 
funny water said:
BWahlberg said:
Give Swogger some credit - he took over a team that was supposed to feature an NFL-bound Lex Hilliard, instead Lex tears his achillies (sp) and Swogger with a pretty limited overall offense gets the team all the way to the semi finals and comes up a drive short of getting to the 'natty.

Now I'll admit - A LOT of 2006's success is because of a superior defense, but Swogs at least got the team that far.

OverthRoper though... yeah...

BW - still a vivid memory of that interception in the waning moments of that UMASS game.... but yeah he did do some good things that season..... i'd say since Dave's days tho that Swogger was #3 at the bottom of the qb list(Roper worst, then Washington, then Swogger)..... which really puts into perspective how fortunate the Griz have been since 93 with the likes of Dickenson, Ah Yat, Miller, Edwards, Ochs, Berquist, and last season JJ......

Agreed, and that INT was a tough one - Swogger thought Schulte was coming back and threw it short, if he would've pump faked and thrown deep... we would've won that game, but their safety made a good play on it. Not sure what the play was (or if it was broken by then)

We prob would've been crushed by Armanti the next week though...

In terms of "bottom 3" for major starters over the last almost 20 years... yeah I'd go in that order too. Top 5 I'd go Dave, Edwards, Ochs, Bergy, Selle.
 
BWahlberg said:
funny water said:
BWahlberg said:
Give Swogger some credit - he took over a team that was supposed to feature an NFL-bound Lex Hilliard, instead Lex tears his achillies (sp) and Swogger with a pretty limited overall offense gets the team all the way to the semi finals and comes up a drive short of getting to the 'natty.

Now I'll admit - A LOT of 2006's success is because of a superior defense, but Swogs at least got the team that far.

OverthRoper though... yeah...

BW - still a vivid memory of that interception in the waning moments of that UMASS game.... but yeah he did do some good things that season..... i'd say since Dave's days tho that Swogger was #3 at the bottom of the qb list(Roper worst, then Washington, then Swogger)..... which really puts into perspective how fortunate the Griz have been since 93 with the likes of Dickenson, Ah Yat, Miller, Edwards, Ochs, Berquist, and last season JJ......

Agreed, and that INT was a tough one - Swogger thought Schulte was coming back and threw it short, if he would've pump faked and thrown deep... we would've won that game, but their safety made a good play on it. Not sure what the play was (or if it was broken by then)

We prob would've been crushed by Armanti the next week though...

In terms of "bottom 3" for major starters over the last almost 20 years... yeah I'd go in that order too. Top 5 I'd go Dave, Edwards, Ochs, Bergy, Selle.

not sure how i missed Selle - it was clearly evident how valuable he was when Roper took over......
 
funny water said:
BWahlberg said:
funny water said:
BWahlberg said:
Give Swogger some credit - he took over a team that was supposed to feature an NFL-bound Lex Hilliard, instead Lex tears his achillies (sp) and Swogger with a pretty limited overall offense gets the team all the way to the semi finals and comes up a drive short of getting to the 'natty.

Now I'll admit - A LOT of 2006's success is because of a superior defense, but Swogs at least got the team that far.

OverthRoper though... yeah...

BW - still a vivid memory of that interception in the waning moments of that UMASS game.... but yeah he did do some good things that season..... i'd say since Dave's days tho that Swogger was #3 at the bottom of the qb list(Roper worst, then Washington, then Swogger)..... which really puts into perspective how fortunate the Griz have been since 93 with the likes of Dickenson, Ah Yat, Miller, Edwards, Ochs, Berquist, and last season JJ......

Agreed, and that INT was a tough one - Swogger thought Schulte was coming back and threw it short, if he would've pump faked and thrown deep... we would've won that game, but their safety made a good play on it. Not sure what the play was (or if it was broken by then)

We prob would've been crushed by Armanti the next week though...

In terms of "bottom 3" for major starters over the last almost 20 years... yeah I'd go in that order too. Top 5 I'd go Dave, Edwards, Ochs, Bergy, Selle.

not sure how i missed Selle - it was clearly evident how valuable he was when Roper took over......


Selle would have beat the Cats that year, also.
 
Hammer said:
funny water said:
BWahlberg said:
funny water said:
BW - still a vivid memory of that interception in the waning moments of that UMASS game.... but yeah he did do some good things that season..... i'd say since Dave's days tho that Swogger was #3 at the bottom of the qb list(Roper worst, then Washington, then Swogger)..... which really puts into perspective how fortunate the Griz have been since 93 with the likes of Dickenson, Ah Yat, Miller, Edwards, Ochs, Berquist, and last season JJ......

Agreed, and that INT was a tough one - Swogger thought Schulte was coming back and threw it short, if he would've pump faked and thrown deep... we would've won that game, but their safety made a good play on it. Not sure what the play was (or if it was broken by then)

We prob would've been crushed by Armanti the next week though...

In terms of "bottom 3" for major starters over the last almost 20 years... yeah I'd go in that order too. Top 5 I'd go Dave, Edwards, Ochs, Bergy, Selle.

not sure how i missed Selle - it was clearly evident how valuable he was when Roper took over......


Selle would have beat the Cats that year, also.
Good to "see" ya Hammer, I will have a cold Oly for ya Sept 1 :thumb:
 
yellowstone60 said:
Hammer said:
funny water said:
BWahlberg said:
Agreed, and that INT was a tough one - Swogger thought Schulte was coming back and threw it short, if he would've pump faked and thrown deep... we would've won that game, but their safety made a good play on it. Not sure what the play was (or if it was broken by then)

We prob would've been crushed by Armanti the next week though...

In terms of "bottom 3" for major starters over the last almost 20 years... yeah I'd go in that order too. Top 5 I'd go Dave, Edwards, Ochs, Bergy, Selle.

not sure how i missed Selle - it was clearly evident how valuable he was when Roper took over......


Selle would have beat the Cats that year, also.
Good to "see" ya Hammer, I will have a cold Oly for ya Sept 1 :thumb:


I'm Ready, baby!!!!

I may have a few before then. tho!!!!
 
Hammer said:
funny water said:
BWahlberg said:
funny water said:
BW - still a vivid memory of that interception in the waning moments of that UMASS game.... but yeah he did do some good things that season..... i'd say since Dave's days tho that Swogger was #3 at the bottom of the qb list(Roper worst, then Washington, then Swogger)..... which really puts into perspective how fortunate the Griz have been since 93 with the likes of Dickenson, Ah Yat, Miller, Edwards, Ochs, Berquist, and last season JJ......

Agreed, and that INT was a tough one - Swogger thought Schulte was coming back and threw it short, if he would've pump faked and thrown deep... we would've won that game, but their safety made a good play on it. Not sure what the play was (or if it was broken by then)

We prob would've been crushed by Armanti the next week though...

In terms of "bottom 3" for major starters over the last almost 20 years... yeah I'd go in that order too. Top 5 I'd go Dave, Edwards, Ochs, Bergy, Selle.

not sure how i missed Selle - it was clearly evident how valuable he was when Roper took over......


Selle would have beat the Cats that year, also.

I think the system change affected him too much but I can't help but wonder if he could've got the Griz back to the 'natty that year... if the Griz made the playoffs Severin Campbell would've been cleared to return... man... that was certainly a "what if" kind of year...
 
Top 5 I'd go Dave, Edwards, Ochs, Bergy, Selle.

Brint, where's the love for B AY??

And anyone remember the days when Sports Illustrated used to give I-AA at least a passing nod now and again?? Great article from SI on Brian:

Montana coach Mick Dennehy likes to point out that he needed two years to find out whether quarterback Brian Ah Yat could play. It took that long for the Hawaiian to take his hands out of his pockets. "He was a young, skinny kid with his shirt sleeves over his hands, shivering to death," Dennehy says.

It's a long way from Honoulu to Missoula, about 3,000 miles as the Hawaiian goose would fly, if the state bird were ever so horribly lost. The majority of the state's citizens haven't been inclined to make the journey, either. North American Van Lines tracks the moves it makes, and in 1995 the company performed exactly two relocations from Hawaii to Montana. You don't need a Rand McNally to figure out why. The mean temperature in Honolulu during football season doesn't dip below 74°. The temperature in Missoula over the same period is just plain mean. "I didn't have a clue about Montana," says Ah Yat. "I just thought there was a lot of country and a lot of cowboys. That's about it. Basically, it was my only offer to play football."

Ah Yat may be the best player to come through a pipeline that, on and off for four decades, has sent football players from the islands to Big Sky country. The 6'2", 190-pound junior wasn't named the starter until 10 days before last season began, but he had an eight-game streak of at least four touchdown passes per game and threw for more than 500 yards in two of those games in a row. He finished Montana's 11-0 regular season with 3,615 passing yards and 42 TD tosses, then threw for 1,397 more yards and 11 ¦more touchdowns in four Division I-AA playoff games, including the national final, which the Grizzlies lost 49-29 to Marshall. He also rushed for 129 yards and three touchdowns last season and finished second in the balloting for the Walter Payton Trophy, Division I-AA's Heisman.

This fall Ah Yat and his favorite target from Honolulu's Iolani High, junior wide receiver Raul Pacheco—two of six Hawaiians on the roster—will be relied on heavily as Montana attempts to reach the championship game for the third consecutive season.

The latest flow of recruits from Hawaii to Montana began with the efforts of Tommy Lee, a Grizzlies assistant from 1985 to '90 and a native Hawaiian whose brother Cal is coach at St. Louis High in Honolulu. "You sign one or two, they enjoy it, and by word of mouth, more kids get interested," says Tommy, now the quarterbacks coach at Utah, which by no coincidence has 12 Hawaiian players. On a visit home in 1993, while coaching in the CFL, Tommy saw Ah Yat play in a passing offense at Iolani High and immediately called Montana's coach at the time, Don Read. The call couldn't have been more timely. The Grizzlies had a junior quarterback, Dave Dickenson, who went on to set 23 school records and lead Montana to the 1995 I-AA national title. But the team didn't have another promising quarterback waiting in the wings. "Other kids we looked at were scared away by Dave," says Dennehy, then the Grizzlies' offensive coordinator. "I don't know that Brian knew what he was getting himself into. I'm not even sure he knew where Montana was."

Though the football marriage between Ah Yat and Montana seems ideal, the partnership off the field at first seemed to have all the staying power of Hollywood matrimony. Ah Yat couldn't tell what went numb faster—his feet or his heart. "I had a bad attitude," he says. "I knew I wasn't going to play. I had doubts about myself. It was a long winter. I didn't like going to practice, didn't show any emotion, went through the motions instead of trying to learn. I would always be thinking about home."

Ah Yat spent his freshman year never letting Pacheco and another Honolulu recruit, wide receiver Eleu Kane, out of his sight. He tried to fit practice and class in between phone calls home. "He just wanted to hear our voices," says his father, Tony, who played defensive end at Linfield College in Oregon from 1961 to '65. "You have to understand Hawaiians. We're really family oriented. When you separate yourself from the family, you can really miss the people back home—and the food."

Oh, the food. "Lau lau," Brian says. "Pork wrapped in tea leaves." Or beef teriyaki or kal bi ribs and rice, lots of rice. Ah Yat survived his freshman year in part because of the people he met in the weight room. Strength and conditioning coach Bruce Wallwork came from Honolulu to play for the Grizzlies in 1960 and never moved back. Wallwork and his wife, Susan, think of themselves as the unofficial Hawaiian ambassadors to Montana. They have a catering business through which they stage luaus. On summer Wednesdays, when vendors gather on the banks of the Clark Fork River in a Missoula park, the Wallworks' cart is a gathering spot for the 30 or so expatriate Hawaiians in Missoula County. "The players come down between two-a-days and get themselves tanked up on teriyaki beef and chicken," Susan says.

In Bruce's office, adjacent to the Grizzlies' locker room, the walls are covered with photographs of the islands. The players go there for a touch of aloha. "Once they hear me talking," Bruce says, "they feel very comfortable. We don't all speak Hawaiian fluently, but we can say one or two words."

Montana quarterbacks coach Brent Pease says Ah Yat is ideal for the Grizzlies' offense because he has a strong arm and he can "survive with his feet." Wallwork discovered how quick Ah Yat is without the benefit of a traditional conditioning test. Bruce once made a potful of pork and cabbage and a pot of rice to take to his office and share with the Hawaiian players. "Brian walked in, picked up the food and said to Bruce, "Tell them it's at my house,' and left," Susan says. "The other kids didn't even have a chance to smell it."
 
BWahlberg said:
In reading a pretty nicely done article by Greg Rachac he made a good point;

Football always seems irrelevant when things like this happen, but the game always goes on

Read more: http://billingsgazette.com/sports/college/blogs/catgrizinsider/article_42784d0e-dc16-11e1-8370-0019bb2963f4.html#ixzz22KlidQKv" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And I would like to put this out there, in light of the fact that the game, the season, and the team will go on. While I wish it didn't come to this we're facing the need for a new starting QB. People are upset and worried first for the victim and for Johnson's family but for those of us looking to the season we're also wondering about the QB situation.

Earlier today in a discussion I said to a co-worker, "this situation (the starting QB situation) is no different than if JJ took a helmet to the knee and blows out his ACL in the first game." Making a point of why you develop depth on the team.

However, as morbid as the suggestion sounds, this is actually better than that type of situation. Mostly because we have a complete fall camp to get our home opener starting QB in synch with the 1st team offense. In the event of my hypothetical situation of a season-ending injury for the starting QB you've got a team that got all worked in around him and expected him to be the guy for the season, they would then have to adjust quickly and thrust a backup in to start a week later.

In this case, we've got 30 days to work in and develop a kid that will be ready come the home opener.

I don't like this situation but... it could have been worse. Considering what we now know as the team moves forward they have time to get in-line with the 2012 starter.

Additionally, I think this team can still be Big Sky Conference Champions with the QBs they have on this roster.


This team loses 4 games this year IMO with a QB thrown into the meat grinder in the last hour. No Playoffs either. But this is not the end of the world considering the full on attack the Football Dept., Um and the city of Missoula is facing atm though.

And no I dont lament losing so games as much as our society once again giving into the mob mentality attacking and branding people as all guilty due to their associations.
 
Tokyogriz said:
BWahlberg said:
In reading a pretty nicely done article by Greg Rachac he made a good point;

Football always seems irrelevant when things like this happen, but the game always goes on

Read more: http://billingsgazette.com/sports/college/blogs/catgrizinsider/article_42784d0e-dc16-11e1-8370-0019bb2963f4.html#ixzz22KlidQKv" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And I would like to put this out there, in light of the fact that the game, the season, and the team will go on. While I wish it didn't come to this we're facing the need for a new starting QB. People are upset and worried first for the victim and for Johnson's family but for those of us looking to the season we're also wondering about the QB situation.

Earlier today in a discussion I said to a co-worker, "this situation (the starting QB situation) is no different than if JJ took a helmet to the knee and blows out his ACL in the first game." Making a point of why you develop depth on the team.

However, as morbid as the suggestion sounds, this is actually better than that type of situation. Mostly because we have a complete fall camp to get our home opener starting QB in synch with the 1st team offense. In the event of my hypothetical situation of a season-ending injury for the starting QB you've got a team that got all worked in around him and expected him to be the guy for the season, they would then have to adjust quickly and thrust a backup in to start a week later.

In this case, we've got 30 days to work in and develop a kid that will be ready come the home opener.

I don't like this situation but... it could have been worse. Considering what we now know as the team moves forward they have time to get in-line with the 2012 starter.

Additionally, I think this team can still be Big Sky Conference Champions with the QBs they have on this roster.


This team loses 4 games this year IMO with a QB thrown into the meat grinder in the last hour. No Playoffs either. But this is not the end of the world considering the full on attack the Football Dept., Um and the city of Missoula is facing atm though.

And no I dont lament losing so games as much as our society once again giving into the mob mentality attacking and branding people as all guilty due to their associations.

Are you aware that you play an all FCS schedule this year :thumb:

Or are you hinting that there may be NCAA sanctions?
 
BWahlberg said:
Top 5 I'd go Dave, Edwards, Ochs, Bergy, Selle.
Huh? You can't be serious. No Miller or Ah Yat? How can you forget the Edwards of 2002 MSU and McNeese games?
1. DD
2. Miller
3. Ochs
4. Ah Yat
5. Bergquist/Selle (pick 'em)
 
kemajic said:
BWahlberg said:
Top 5 I'd go Dave, Edwards, Ochs, Bergy, Selle.
Huh? You can't be serious. No Miller or Ah Yat? How can you forget the Edwards of 2002 MSU and McNeese games?1. DD
2. Miller
3. Ochs
4. Ah Yat
5. Bergquist/Selle (pick 'em)


Uhh, easy. NC..........
 
I've said it before, I rank them like this:
1. Ochs best qb talent from top to bottom we've had, NFL body, arm and Peyton-like understanding of the game.......wish we would have had him linger and healthier

2. DD smartest qb, with an uncanny knack for ducking a tackle or scrambling to get us out of a tough spot and the sentimental favorite as the home state kid and for delivering the first title.

3.1. Miller best drop back passer we've had
3.2. Brian A - gun slinger who excelled in the era of the non existent running back offense

4. Edwards accomplished the most with the least talent of the bunch

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
 

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