Stitt was right about punting

[UMGriz75]

Let 75 beat his drum and then sit back and laugh at the beat.

On cue, there's one now.

 

[UMGriz75]

So far -- and it is only "so far" -- Rob Ash was a more innovative coach. "Innovative" is not necessarily "successful," but just in the context of using stats and trying unconventional approaches based on those statistics.

Stats generated by his son's company? :lol: :lol:

Can't say that it worked out too well. That's one argument in favor of "time-tested" or "conservative" strategies.

Still, nobody's ever going to find something that works better if they don't experiment. That was something to look forward to based on initial perceptions about Bob Stitt.

 

[Bscwatcher]

You're right that this particular article doesn't say that you should go for it on every fourth down, but I believe I've seen research that shows that statistically speaking you should go for it every time you cross your own 40, no matter the distance remaining. I don't have a link to that, but I recall it from somewhere.

I believe this as well. No matter the distance.

From a couple of years ago. You might remember this as the high school coach that never pints and kicks inside.

http://www.citizen-times.com/story/sports/2014/10/13/high-school-coach-never-punts-always-onside-kicks/17213961/


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[HelenaHandBasket]

Let 75 beat his drum and then sit back and laugh at the beat.

On cue, there's one now.

Thanks. Noted.

 

[AZGrizFan]

So far -- and it is only "so far" -- Rob Ash was a more innovative coach. "Innovative" is not necessarily "successful," but just in the context of using stats and trying unconventional approaches based on those statistics.

Stats generated by his son's company? :lol: :lol:

Can't say that it worked out too well. That's one argument in favor of "time-tested" or "conservative" strategies.

Still, nobody's ever going to find something that works better if they don't experiment. That was something to look forward to based on initial perceptions about Bob Stitt.

I think it'll get there....once the offensive line has Thayne Jackson, Angel Villanueva, Dallas Hart, Ashton Torres and Brandon Scott, with Rey Green and Calhoun & Favors running behind them I think we'll see more of it.

 

[AZGrizFan]

You're right that this particular article doesn't say that you should go for it on every fourth down, but I believe I've seen research that shows that statistically speaking you should go for it every time you cross your own 40, no matter the distance remaining. I don't have a link to that, but I recall it from somewhere.

I believe this as well. No matter the distance.

From a couple of years ago. You might remember this as the high school coach that never pints and kicks inside.

http://www.citizen-times.com/story/sports/2014/10/13/high-school-coach-never-punts-always-onside-kicks/17213961/


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Before I moved to Texas, the HS my kids went to in Cave Creek (suburb of Phoenix) their coach never punted and always onside kicked it after scoring.

 

[Bscwatcher]

You're right that this particular article doesn't say that you should go for it on every fourth down, but I believe I've seen research that shows that statistically speaking you should go for it every time you cross your own 40, no matter the distance remaining. I don't have a link to that, but I recall it from somewhere.

I believe this as well. No matter the distance.

From a couple of years ago. You might remember this as the high school coach that never pints and kicks inside.

http://www.citizen-times.com/story/sports/2014/10/13/high-school-coach-never-punts-always-onside-kicks/17213961/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Before I moved to Texas, the HS my kids went to in Cave Creek (suburb of Phoenix) their coach never punted and always onside kicked it after scoring.

Successful??

Probably a good thing in high school. I would assume the benefits diminish as you move up the ranks/level of football.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[AZGrizFan]

I believe this as well. No matter the distance.

From a couple of years ago. You might remember this as the high school coach that never pints and kicks inside.

http://www.citizen-times.com/story/sports/2014/10/13/high-school-coach-never-punts-always-onside-kicks/17213961/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Before I moved to Texas, the HS my kids went to in Cave Creek (suburb of Phoenix) their coach never punted and always onside kicked it after scoring.

Successful??

Probably a good thing in high school. I would assume the benefits diminish as you move up the ranks/level of football.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

15-0 and state title. So, I'd say yes it was successful. :lol:

 

[garizzalies]

To bad he got bullied out of his good judgment.
http://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2016/09/crazy_things_football_teams_should_always_do.html

I did wonder about that while watching the SFU game. If the research stands up I am surprised that Stitt would not use it.

What is becoming clear is that what Stitt says and what Stitt does are two different things. In a pinch, he becomes a very conservative coach.

At ISU, he took what was a substantial lead, built entirely on Makena's rushing skills in the first half, and blew it as he candidly admitted, forcing Makena in the second half to convert back to a passing game -- "you have to pass sometime" Stitt said post-game -- and short passes, to "protect the lead." He took his foot off the gas, and at the same time just "needed" prove his "Air Stitt" offense in a game in which he had a running quarterback who gave the outstanding rushing performance of any Griz, including the WR's, in the season and did so in a single half.

What i really liked about Stitt initially -- his claims to study and analyze those "stats," and build exciting and innovative offenses off of them -- has been considerably diluted by what I have seen in reality on the field.

So far -- and it is only "so far" -- Rob Ash was a more innovative coach. "Innovative" is not necessarily "successful," but just in the context of using stats and trying unconventional approaches based on those statistics.

Holy crap! Simis and Ron Ash in the same post. Is this guy serious? At first I thought this was supposed to be a funny, satire-type post. But after re-reviewing it, I think this guy actually believes the shit he posts.
Congrats 75. In one post you cemented you football knowledge for all to see.
Talk about yellow journalism.
Were you petulantly posting with your elbows?

 

[garizzalies]

I'm still laughing about the Simis/Ash post. :lol:
Both were fired from their position because they sucked so bad, but darn it, 75 knows better

 

[mcg]

The problem with statistical analysis in football is the season is too short and the difference in talent too large. Baseball has a 162 game season and he worse teams win 40% of there games. Thus the stats have a tendency to work out. Football has an eleven game season and the worse teams don't win any. The impact of one 'statistical outlier' can be very large. For example, the fourth down try in the 4th quarter of last seasons Cal Poly game.

With all due respect to Azgriz fan, Cave Creek's success with not punting and using onside kick might have more to with the fact that they are way better than their opposition than with unique strategy.

 

[Buttegrizzle]

I remember that coach Read was very innovative on third down with the quick kick if he was really backed up and on 4th down from about the opponents 40 or so he would occasionaly do just what we saw Saturday, try a medium to deep pass play. It was always amazing how many times the DBs would be so amped up they would make a diving INT resulting in effectively a perfect punt to inside the 10, rather than just bat the ball down and take over at the line of scrimmage. On the whole I agree (especially with a return guy like SFU has) it is better to go for it on 4th and medium from say the 45-in. Seems like 80 percent of the time you see a punt from there its a touchback and nets only about 25 yards or less.

 

[AZGrizFan]

The problem with statistical analysis in football is the season is too short and the difference in talent too large. Baseball has a 162 game season and he worse teams win 40% of there games. Thus the stats have a tendency to work out. Football has an eleven game season and the worse teams don't win any. The impact of one 'statistical outlier' can be very large. For example, the fourth down try in the 4th quarter of last seasons Cal Poly game.

With all due respect to Azgriz fan, Cave Creek's success with not punting and using onside kick might have more to with the fact that they are way better than their opposition than with unique strategy.

:? :? :?

 

[UMGriz75]

I'm still laughing about the Simis/Ash post. :lol:
Both were fired from their position because they sucked so bad, but darn it, 75 knows better

Actually, the post was about Bob Stitt's comments about the game, which were interesting because 1) they acknowledged key facts about the first half, and 2) they detailed his own change of strategy for the second half. They were interesting because Stitt acknowledged that he likely goofed by shifting to the passing strategy, that the OL was then collapsing and the ball was getting stripped, and by going "conservative" to protect ... THE LEAD! An approach we likely were not led to expect from Stitt. And we damn near lost the game to ISU because of it. It's not about Simis. It's about Stitt. His comments there were about going "conservative," which is comparable to the idea of going "conservative" on punting as well. "Conservative" just isn't what we expected.

The reference to Simis' rushing yardage was simply a fact, but a key fact underlying Stitt's comments.

Those fact-thingys are tough for you, aren't they?

But, hey, with your brown-nose agenda, those are the last things you want to talk about, aren't they?

 

[Eriul]

I mean I personally am all down for going for it on 4th down anywhere between their 30 and the midfield line. Or on their goal line. Anywhere besides that I believe has a much better option, IF you have good special teams.

 

[Fat Bruno]

Don't over complicate it. The more Stitt gets his personnel in place, the more he'll go with his philosophy. At this point, he still has to compromise with the reality he's been dealt.

 

[UMGriz75]

Don't over complicate it. The more Stitt gets his personnel in place, the more he'll go with his philosophy. At this point, he still has to compromise with the reality he's been dealt.

What compromise? Is there any disagreement that, collectively, these are the best athletes he's ever coached?

 

[UMGriz75]

To bad he got bullied out of his good judgment.

http://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2016/09/crazy_things_football_teams_should_always_do.html

How do you think he was "bullied?"

 

[bgbigdog]

Not so sure Stitt uses much more than his feelings as to how well the QB is playing when deciding when to go for it on 4th down. Distance might be a minor factor and it's always on the table when they're outside their own 35.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

Don't over complicate it. The more Stitt gets his personnel in place, the more he'll go with his philosophy. At this point, he still has to compromise with the reality he's been dealt.

What compromise? Is there any disagreement that, collectively, these are the best athletes he's ever coached?

Are you trying to say that all athletes fit all systems?