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SPRING CAMP: Position Battles on Offense

Copper Griz said:
After overhearing McKinney say, "I don't think Im ever going to start here again," about a month ago, I lost all faith in him. You need to be confident at that position and I don't think he has that. Once JJ's graduated, I hope he proves me wrong, otherwise Brady or Makena are going to make sure his statement is true.

Wow. This tells me his confidence is shot, done, kaput. I am shocked honestly. I expect anyone at this level to nut up when the chips are down. If what you posted is true (I have no reason to doubt you) then he is done and the race is now down to three QB's. Gustafson leaves me scratching my head though. Drop back passer for sure - not a runner. Pray to God JJ returns or we go in a completely different direction with our offense. This is going to be interesting.

Well put yourself in his shoes 1 month ago, if you heard that correctly he was looking at a team that was probably going to go under-center for the most part and the need for the more athletic/mobile QB was going to be diminished quite a bit. That could be changing a bit looking at the personnel now, tough to say...
 
Copper Griz said:
After overhearing McKinney say, "I don't think Im ever going to start here again," about a month ago, I lost all faith in him. You need to be confident at that position and I don't think he has that. Once JJ's graduated, I hope he proves me wrong, otherwise Brady or Makena are going to make sure his statement is true.

Wow. This tells me his confidence is shot, done, kaput. I am shocked honestly. I expect anyone at this level to nut up when the chips are down. If what you posted is true (I have no reason to doubt you) then he is done and the race is now down to three QB's. Gustafson leaves me scratching my head though. Drop back passer for sure - not a runner. Pray to God JJ returns or we go in a completely different direction with our offense. This is going to be interesting.[/quote]

I wish it weren't true, but sadly it is. I still believe McKinney should have finished out last season but with JJ, or Brady or Makena, I just don't see it for the future.
 
grizcountry420 said:
Year after year, you hear guys talking about speed on a team.. Is there gonna be a guy this year that will be able to flat out run? Gamebreaker material??

:clap: Canada, T-Vann, Henderson are gamebreakers. Watch.
 
I vote for "this guy" at the QB position, even though he can't throw over 45 yards. He's quick on his feet, can find and hit the 2nd or 3rd when the primary is covered. He's a natural leader, calm under pressure, can make quick decisions AND he's tough. When he gets his head ripped off, he somehow makes his way back to the huddle. I've never seen any quit in "this guy".
jordan-johnson.jpg
 
PolsonGrizFan said:
I vote for "this guy" at the QB position, even though he can't throw over 45 yards. He's quick on his feet, can find and hit the 2nd or 3rd when the primary is covered. He's a natural leader, calm under pressure, can make quick decisions AND he's tough. When he gets his head ripped off, he somehow makes his way back to the huddle. I've never seen any quit in "this guy".
jordan-johnson.jpg
IF he comes back and DOESN'T start there is something FUQ'd up with the coaching staff on this team. And let's face it their record sure as hell ain't spotless.
IF he does come back AND they go to some kind of double tight 2 back qb under center power running team it will PROVE how completely and totally F'd up this coaching staff is.
 
BigPawzSharpClawz said:
grizcountry420 said:
Year after year, you hear guys talking about speed on a team.. Is there gonna be a guy this year that will be able to flat out run? Gamebreaker material??

:clap: Canada, T-Vann, Henderson are gamebreakers. Watch.

I just hope Canada is in shape this year. I don't think he was in the bestest shape last year, hense.. Why he spent most of the year playing with a tweaked hammy..
 
BWahlberg said:
grizcountry420 said:
Year after year, you hear guys talking about speed on a team.. Is there gonna be a guy this year that will be able to flat out run? Gamebreaker material??

Tough to totally say.

I think at WR Ellis Henderson and a healthy Sean Haynes are both game-breakers. Also Chase Naccarato was one of the fastest kids on the track in all of Washington when in high school. Those three could be game-breakers. Beyond them though, Canada has a good burst, we know that, Counts is much quicker than his size lets on the believe. I'm not sure on TraVon, will have to see.

Missed a major one. Taylor Walcott was the 100 & 200 sprint champion both his Junior and Senior years in Oregon. I believe his best 100 time in 2012 was 10.74. Think that qualifies as having speed.
 
BWahlberg said:
Copper Griz said:
After overhearing McKinney say, "I don't think Im ever going to start here again," about a month ago, I lost all faith in him. You need to be confident at that position and I don't think he has that. Once JJ's graduated, I hope he proves me wrong, otherwise Brady or Makena are going to make sure his statement is true.

Wow. This tells me his confidence is shot, done, kaput. I am shocked honestly. I expect anyone at this level to nut up when the chips are down. If what you posted is true (I have no reason to doubt you) then he is done and the race is now down to three QB's. Gustafson leaves me scratching my head though. Drop back passer for sure - not a runner. Pray to God JJ returns or we go in a completely different direction with our offense. This is going to be interesting.

Well put yourself in his shoes 1 month ago, if you heard that correctly he was looking at a team that was probably going to go under-center for the most part and the need for the more athletic/mobile QB was going to be diminished quite a bit. That could be changing a bit looking at the personnel now, tough to say...


Please, please tell me you're making the part up about going back under center.
 
go96griz said:
BWahlberg said:
grizcountry420 said:
Year after year, you hear guys talking about speed on a team.. Is there gonna be a guy this year that will be able to flat out run? Gamebreaker material??

Tough to totally say.

I think at WR Ellis Henderson and a healthy Sean Haynes are both game-breakers. Also Chase Naccarato was one of the fastest kids on the track in all of Washington when in high school. Those three could be game-breakers. Beyond them though, Canada has a good burst, we know that, Counts is much quicker than his size lets on the believe. I'm not sure on TraVon, will have to see.

Missed a major one. Taylor Walcott was the 100 & 200 sprint champion both his Junior and Senior years in Oregon. I believe his best 100 time in 2012 was 10.74. Think that qualifies as having speed.

He's my "sleeper" pick this year...
 
go96griz said:
BWahlberg said:
grizcountry420 said:
Year after year, you hear guys talking about speed on a team.. Is there gonna be a guy this year that will be able to flat out run? Gamebreaker material??

Tough to totally say.

I think at WR Ellis Henderson and a healthy Sean Haynes are both game-breakers. Also Chase Naccarato was one of the fastest kids on the track in all of Washington when in high school. Those three could be game-breakers. Beyond them though, Canada has a good burst, we know that, Counts is much quicker than his size lets on the believe. I'm not sure on TraVon, will have to see.

Missed a major one. Taylor Walcott was the 100 & 200 sprint champion both his Junior and Senior years in Oregon. I believe his best 100 time in 2012 was 10.74. Think that qualifies as having speed.

He also came into the indoor track season and was immediately one of the top sprinters, running in the low 6.4s in the 55 meters.

Though he isn't an offensive player, Herbert Gamboa may be the fastest player on the team with his 4.3 forty.

Coming in you have Tre Favors who is a 4.3 forty guy and Ari Morales who is a 4.4 guy...and we probably won't even need these guys this season.

The team has speed, hopefully it can all come together.
 
go96griz said:
BWahlberg said:
grizcountry420 said:
Year after year, you hear guys talking about speed on a team.. Is there gonna be a guy this year that will be able to flat out run? Gamebreaker material??

Tough to totally say.

I think at WR Ellis Henderson and a healthy Sean Haynes are both game-breakers. Also Chase Naccarato was one of the fastest kids on the track in all of Washington when in high school. Those three could be game-breakers. Beyond them though, Canada has a good burst, we know that, Counts is much quicker than his size lets on the believe. I'm not sure on TraVon, will have to see.

Missed a major one. Taylor Walcott was the 100 & 200 sprint champion both his Junior and Senior years in Oregon. I believe his best 100 time in 2012 was 10.74. Think that qualifies as having speed.

Agreed
 
BigPawzSharpClawz said:
go96griz said:
BWahlberg said:
grizcountry420 said:
Year after year, you hear guys talking about speed on a team.. Is there gonna be a guy this year that will be able to flat out run? Gamebreaker material??

Tough to totally say.

I think at WR Ellis Henderson and a healthy Sean Haynes are both game-breakers. Also Chase Naccarato was one of the fastest kids on the track in all of Washington when in high school. Those three could be game-breakers. Beyond them though, Canada has a good burst, we know that, Counts is much quicker than his size lets on the believe. I'm not sure on TraVon, will have to see.

Missed a major one. Taylor Walcott was the 100 & 200 sprint champion both his Junior and Senior years in Oregon. I believe his best 100 time in 2012 was 10.74. Think that qualifies as having speed.

Agreed

My bad on missing Walcott - he looked/played like a true freshman WR in fall camp so hopefully with the off-season and some weight room/winter condo he'll have a little more confidence in his physical skills. I remember watching his HS highlight reels, he's a dominant guy. And he got some reps on the field this last year which I presume will help him out as well.
 
grizfan95 said:
RobGriz said:
grizare#1 said:
Thanks Brint
I for one hope that Jordy comes back and can compete, if he does I like our chances better with him at the controls then the other QB's provided he can put all of this past year behind him. My concern is that he was brought here for the purpose of running a system that is no longer coached here with the departure of RP.
It is going to be a tough battle in that position if Jordy does come back, if not I look for Shay to be the one that has it to loose. I don't care what system we run, we just need to improve overall team speed. In the past playoff games and title games we have lost the other teams just seam to be so much quicker early on. Our conditioning did seem to help in the second half but by then we were playing catchup and to many games were just to far out of reach to cross the finish line.
um...no. IF JJ comes back he will win the position outright...period. Comparing SSH to Jordy is well...idiotic, at best. Not trying to pick a fight, honestly. But you CANNOT compare the two.
If Jordy hadn't initially been charged, Shay would never have seen the field. Bless Shay's heart, but he wouldn't start at Carroll.

Ditto!
 
BWahlberg said:
Man oh man - does it feel good to be posting about football once again? We're about 2 weeks away from the start of spring camp and I've been itching to get this post up. As always, this is my observational opinion and I could be way off in a few assessments here. Feel free to chime in.

#1 Quarterback: wide-open

Shay Smithwick-Hann - I've read and seen more reports where the players talk about how smart of a player Shay is. Coach Delaney has stated that Shay will enter spring ball as the starter. This would lend hand to what we're hearing that the team will move to more of a power running team and mix in some pistol offense. Shay throws a good deep ball, knows the WRs well, and has been here a while. There's concerns of course with his arm strength and speed. He's not much of a running option at this level.

Trent McKinney - Trent lost his job this last year to Shay and my best guess is because of accuracy issues in passing, anything beyond 10 yards or so became an issue. I had also heard he was not looking through his reads the best either. If Trent is more dialed in then he could rapidly push Shay with a stronger/faster arm and as a better runner. However if accuracy remains an issue I don't know where he'll land.

Brady Gustafson - The scout team player of the year in 2012 and coming out of the fall with a lot of hype Brady could surprise this year. He's a big kid but can run the pistol and some option. He's got a cannon for an arm. Short range/quick pass accuracy has been the issue I've seen, also knowing/trusting the play and knowing where to find his WRs. I'm anxious to see how he's improved through his first year.

Jordan Johnson? - In all honesty I don't know if JJ will be back by the time spring ball starts, but lets just presume that he does. If so, there's lots of questions about where Jordy is ("football shape"). Yes, he's been working out, but is he doing the same/similar winter condo drills the other guys are right now? He may have to ramp up into spring camp. Where will his stamina and arm strength be? Obviously if he's in good shape and ready to go, he could rocket back up and grab the #1 spot by the end of spring I'd think - but we'll have to see.

2. Running back: Jordan Canada and Joey Counts appear to be locked in but then...

TraVon Van - I'm excited to see what TraVon will bring to the table. A lot of times transfers have a slower start ramping up to the system and getting on page with the team. I have very little to go off with this guy outside of a few highlights so we'll have to see what he brings to the field.

Brett Kirschner? - Brett was rumored to be moving to safety, but then the Griz bring in a safety transfer. Personally l'd like to see him stay at RB, he was a powerful runner and I was looking forward to seeing what he'd do this year when the opportunity to get carries opened up with the departure of Moore, Nguyen, and Walden.

Jacob Elder - Had some quick bursts last fall camp. Will be facing an uphill battle for the ball this spring however with the departure of 3 backs to graduation and if Kirsch is headed to safety then he'll get a lot of touches.

3. Tight End: Wide open doesn't even begin to describe it, and the best option might not even be here yet.

Gavin Hagfors - Converted RB, was the 3rd string option at TE last year, had a few good catches but he's a little undersized to be an every-down TE.

Clay Pierson - A good physical player, solid blocker, catching improved through the season. Health has always been a concern. If I were to guess I'd bet he enters spring camp as the starter at TE.

Aschan Richards - I've been waiting for Aschan to show Griz Nation something. This could be his time. He's the tallest of the TEs we have (6-6) and will probably not come in as heavy as Pierson but should be close in size. He has the physical potential to be the most dominating of the TEs on the field, but he's got to actually get out there and do that now.

4. Wide Receiver:

Ellis Henderson - I'm assuming he will be one of the starting split-out WRs. If Ellis can get on page with the eventual starting QB this could be a monster year for him.

Mitch Saylor - I would also guess Mitch will enter spring camp starting opposite of Ellis. I hope that with Rosenbach gone Saylor is used better, giving him quick dump-off passes isn't his game. Send the big 6-5 guy down field have him win jump/fade routes more often!

Sean Haynes - Hopefully can be ready and injury free for spring camp. Sean continued to impress me but vanished as some leg injury issues sprung up (not attitude issues as rumored on here). A healthy Sean Haynes will impress all of you.

Taylor Walcott - Burned his RS to get him a little bit of time this last season... I hope it pays off. Taylor will probably be backing up the split-out WRs. Hopefully the weight room has been good to him.

Cam Warren - Assuming he's our starting slot WR, I know he was dealing with shoulder issues in fall camp - will he practice or will he be out resting/re-habbing his shoulder?

Chase Naccarato - Another slot WR that I'm hoping to see lots of good things from. Another guy who kind of vanished as the season went on. Wondering how he'll do in run-blocking situations, if given any. Taking over in the slot he's filling in for Sam Gratton who did just about everything well.

There's also Spencer Hale, Brandon Maguire, Ryan Burke, Kevin Berland, and Jake Dellaserra. Outside of Maguire I think these other guys are still all underclassmen (soph or younger) and will be looking to fill in some gaps. Burke I believe took a red-shirt, the rest may have already done that. Maguire is a bigger and more physical guy, Berland is a quicker/returner type. Dellaserra fought and won a spot on the team coming out of spring camp as I recall.

5. Left Guard: Filling in the spot left by Jake Hendrickson

Samson Kalekini - I think Samson was the guy who was in off the bench first to fill in at guard and I'd bet the RS Soph will enter spring camp as the starter. He had quite a bit of opportunity on the field last year. It'll be interesting to see how he adapts to playing full time now. What I can't recall from Samson was if he played RG or LG - if he's a right guard then he might be waiting another year for Poehls to finish up his Griz career.

Jordan Hines - I believe he's the guard of the twin brothers. If Samson isn't getting the initial look to start at guard it will presumably be Jordan. I don't remember if he played much, I know his brother did to fill in at center when needed. I've had feedback from outgoing players that if Jordan wants to take this spot he needs to be "meaner" out there. It was the same criticism of Hendrickson when he came back in 2012 but he quickly proved that he can be a mean SOB out there, Jordan will need to do the same.

McCauley Todd - Big steam-roller of a kid who was slowed by injuries in fall camp. Should be all healed up now and ready to fight for a spot. Coming in as a RS-frosh he may be looking at a backup role, however if he plays as mean as he did in his high school highlight reel, he might make a push for the starting spot

Devon Detrich - I believe the other guy who is looking at the LG spot. I remember last fall camp the five freshman OL had issues at tackle and with center but the two guards held their own. That was Detirch and Todd.

-------------

This isn't to say there's other positioning battles that will be interesting. It will be interesting to see the depth of this team develop. Like I said we had 5 freshman OL players coming off red shirts, and while maybe only 1 will push for a starting spot we'll have a few pushing to backup and rotate time.

Football? Isn't there a trial or a reporter, or an administrator, or a lawsuit, or something we can speculate about? Seriously, thanks for the study guide, as always your work is much appreciated and it is great to see people re-engaging on actual Griz football.
 
As for RB, no matter who the starter is, 3 RB's will see the field consistently. RB depth is great.

WR: Should be interesting. They are inexperienced still, but a lot of talent. An improved OC, and QB play will help these guys out a lot. We need the WR's and QB's to be on the same page. I don't see how that did not improve as the year progressed last year. That is what pissed me off the most with Rosenbach. That is a sign he very well could have checked out early last season.

QB: so many ?'s here. If JJ shows he can still be the man, and someone is competing with him going into fall camp, that will be a great sign. If, he is rusty and nobody is taking advantage of it, then that is not a good sign. My honest opinion, I honestly don't see how anyone can compete with JJ, if he is mentally ready to go. The last 1.5 months of the 2011 season, he was a dominating QB, and directed offense as well as one could. He was truly a playmaker. The kid proved he is a true difference maker and leader. His improvement was off the chart throughout that season.He showed he has that special "IT" factor.

JJ at 100% makes the OC side pretty easy, just get him on the field, and let him work. IF, he is on the field, I change very little with this offense. I start preparing Gustafson and Simis as the primary back ups with some tweaks for each. I move McKinney to slot, or safety. I move SH to TE.

Seriously, the last we seen of JJ on the field, he left us wanting to see a lot more. There was something magical and special with him at QB. I have a feeling if McKinney did say something about seeing the field, it could be a reference to just that. His RS year he seen what JJ could do and probably enjoyed ever minute of it. Add in more motivation, and more mental toughness in JJ, to what we already seen, and we can see how McKinney was thinking. Also, both Gustafson and Simis appear to have very good potential. It would make sense to groom either of them after JJ graduates. Ideally it is best to have guys lined up at QB that will start 2 years.

I honestly don't see much of a battle at QB. That battle lasts no longer than the 1st week of fall camp. Providing JJ is ready to go, the coaches would be fools to have anyone but JJ directing this offense.

I am looking forward to the competition at DB, at both Safety and CB. After what we seen last season, they better have these positions open to all. With that said, if we that damn soft shell coverage scheme as our primary cover package again this year, teams again will throw all over the field on us. Ty had better be ready to have the balls and aggressiveness to let the secondary play this year . If he tries protecting them with that lame ass scheme again this year, I hope this will be his last year as DC. That is hard for me to say too, because I was on Ty's bandwagon big time for the DC job.

Regardless how the position battles play out, the key to this season will be consistent QB play, better pass defense, and better coaching decisions. Yes, better coaching decisions starts with our pass coverage schemes. I will be paying very close attention to our pass coverage schemes this year from the get go.

It is great to be talking football again. Even better to think #10 will be part of the GRIZ again.
 
Question: If JJ is back, acknowledging that McKinney is the 2nd best QB on the roster, does he become the next Gerald Kemp? Dude's got game and could really help this team in several areas...just not sure about having BOTH QB's on the field. In the event JJ were to get injured, I'd hate to see us have to hand the ball back to SSH.
 
"I am looking forward to the competition at DB, at both Safety and CB. After what we seen last season, they better have these positions open to all. With that said, if we that damn soft shell coverage scheme as our primary cover package again this year, teams again will throw all over the field on us. Ty had better be ready to have the balls and aggressiveness to let the secondary play this year . If he tries protecting them with that lame ass scheme again this year, I hope this will be his last year as DC. That is hard for me to say too, because I was on Ty's bandwagon big time for the DC job"

mtgrizrule- Nice very nice. Glad that I wasn't the only one seeing that the"clam shell" coverage don't get beat deep was killing us. However you have to admit the safety play wasn't all that in the shell coverage. The inability to pick up the route of the opposing WRs was evident so the back half was getting toasted. in my most humble opinion, I do believe that the secondary will be an open competition and once the dust settles the primaries will be the same rotation as last year. Hopefully though, the DC ensures that the SAFETIES and CBs are in the same film room. It has to happen or the results will be the same, if that small but important group of defenders will be left out to dry again.

V/r Pounder29- West Coast Griz fan
 
AZGrizFan said:
Question: If JJ is back, acknowledging that McKinney is the 2nd best QB on the roster, does he become the next Gerald Kemp? Dude's got game and could really help this team in several areas...just not sure about having BOTH QB's on the field. In the event JJ were to get injured, I'd hate to see us have to hand the ball back to SSH.

I think that Brady G has more raw talent than both TM & SSH.. I wouldn't be suprised if he JJ's backup, if JJ comes back and plays..
 
here is the way i see it...

- strength of team is o/l, receivers, r/b and all defense returning
- fact, delaney has said that the offense will be designed to help keep the defense off the field more
- maybe we use the hagafors kid like we did klaeboe a few years ago as lead blocker for r/b's,,i donot think this means we are giving up on pass, just different way posess the ball,,,
- run 40 x game..pass 30x,,,
- it all hinges, no matter waht scheme is used, on having an adequate qb....
- ssh, as smart as he is, just does not seem to have it....so either gustufson or t,m. must earn their scholarship if jj doesn't come back...just my tow cents...

thanks b/w for the thread and back to football.....
 
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